I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

This shows why you want to re-interpret the text. First, you think it was an obligation that they had to wait. No, it was out of their love. Second, you find that to be against a "higher moral value" you have created in your mind. Hence, your need to give it a spin to save yourself from feeling uneasy.

The translation from the link:

If the Ansar checked with the Prophet SAWS first "out of love", then the above translation does not convey that.

I'm not trying to re-interpret anything. I'm simply looking for a better way to translate the Arabic.

The rest of your post is more presumptions, conjecture, gossip and slander on your part.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

The translation from the link:

"If any of the Ansar had a single female relative, they would not arrange a marriage for her until they found out whether the Prophet wanted to marry her or not.”

If the Ansar checked with the Prophet SAWS first "out of love", then the above translation does not convey that.

I'm not trying to re-interpret anything. I'm simply looking for a better way to translate the Arabic.

The rest of your post is more presumptions, conjecture, gossip and slander on your part.

That is the correct translation. Yours is wrong.

Muhammad Saed Abdul-Rahman is a translator of many books which have truly been published.

Any man with any sense on this thread will take his over yours any day. Not to mention that what you are trying to re-interpret shows how lacking in knowledge of the Arabic langauge you are.

People would say that about you all over the forum. I never believed them.

Now, I do.

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

That is the correct translation. Yours is wrong.

Muhammad Saed Abdul-Rahman is a translator of many books which have truly been published.

Any man with any sense on this thread will take his over yours any day. Not to mention that what you are trying to re-interpret shows how lacking in knowledge of the Arabic langauge you are.

People would say that about you all over the forum. I never believed them.

Now, I do.

My translation is 100% accurate.

You're a sad individual. I'm still waiting for you to share links to your translation works that makes you such an expert.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

My translation is 100% accurate.

I suggest you learn. Have a nice day. Since I am on your ignore list you won't get to see this. I wonder if curiosity will get the better of you!

[talibilm09]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

:salams All

I can't judge anything here # 29 since its out of my knowledge (cosm I do not know Aarabic )

Spare me the whines. There is nothing personal when it comes to the truth. You sit on your computer and put down translators who actually have published works, read by thousands, and then cannot take criticism. Are you really this arrogant and deluded by your "excellence?"

But I Can judge here ''as the truth ;; Since Zeeshan is what he claims .

Bro Zeeshan , whats that slogan in your signature ? since i can't see now when I am logged on, it said something like
'' You are not my friend ........'' I love that

Haq is Haq , even if it goes against Zial ul haq, My slogan yeah, lol n :smile;

May Allah gives us control on our Nafs ego , and save from being one of the arrogant , since its the way and destination of AZazeel, the cursed One.

[Tayoofa]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

Btw أيِّم is the widow

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

An entry from the Kuwaiti Encyclopedia of fiQh which puts the issue at hand to rest.

وقال الإمام أبو يوسف - من الحنفية -: لا دلالة في الآية الكريمة على أن اللاتي لم يهاجرن كن محرمات على الرسول عليه الصلاة والسلام؛ لأن تخصيص الشيء بالذكر لا ينفي ما عداه

Imaam Abu Yusuf - from among the Hanafi school of thought - said: There is no evidence in the Noble Verse that the ones [i.e. women] who did not make Hijrah were impermissible for the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) because takhSiiS of something by making mention of it does not negate that which is other than it.


ويجوز للرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم أن يتزوج من نساء الأنصار، قد تزوج عليه الصلاة والسلام من غير المهاجرات صفية وجويرية

It was permissible for the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) that he marry women from among the 'Ansaar. He married صفية and جويرية who were not from the muhaajiraat



وفي مسند الإمام أحمد عن أبي برزة رضي الله عنه قال: كانت الأنصار إذا كان لأحدهم أيم - لم يزوجها حتى يعلم هل للنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فيها حاجة أم لا

And it is present in Musnad Ahmad that Imaam Ahmad reported from أبي برزة that when the 'Ansaar had an أيم they would not marry her until they knew if the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) had any "need" in her or not


فلولا علمهم بأنه يحل له التزوج من نساء الأنصار لما كان هناك داع للتربص والانتظار

Had they not known that it was permissible for him (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) to marry women from the Ansaar, there would have been no need here for waiting.


There is your fiQh reference [MENTION=3349]AbuNajm[/MENTION].

As I said. You were wrong. And you were arrogant.

After the nonsense you said to me in the PM you sent me, the only one who needs to fear humiliation in public or a torment is not me but you. Praise to Allah you left my FB list.

Pray to Allaah I don't pray against you for your comments in that PM.



Volume 6 Page 266

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

An entry from the Kuwaiti Encyclopedia of fiQh which puts the issue at hand to rest.

فلولا علمهم بأنه يحل له التزوج من نساء الأنصار لما كان هناك داع للتربص والانتظار

Had they not known that it was permissible for him (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) to marry women from the Ansaar, there would have been no need here for waiting.


There is your fiQh reference @AbuNajm.

You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

This makes it clear that you are driven in this discussion by more than just an obsessive need to be right but by a personal vendetta that has caused you to stoop low enough to lie about another Muslim publicly and then make personal attacks based on those lies.

I never denied that "Haajah" could include marriage.

My criticism of the translation in the link you provided is that it restricts and narrows the translation of the term "Haajah" to marriage when this is not the actual meaning of the word nor its full implication in Arabic.

The only proof that I need is the remainder of the Hadith itself in which the Prophet SAWS speaks for Julaybeeb RA in asking for a woman's hand in marriage.

In this Hadith, the term "Haajah" is also clearly connected with whether the Prophet SAWS himself had someone in mind for marriage to an eligible woman.

Readers of this discussion have 2 options:

1) A translation that is highly interpretive and restrictive to only one possible meaning for the term "Haajah" that opposes the text of the Hadith;

or

2) A translation which remains literal and open to any possible meanings for the term "Haajah" including the meaning indicated by the Hadith, i.e. marrying off an eligible woman to a person of the Prophet's SAWS choosing.

I can't speak for the translator of the link you provided to Tafsir Ibn Kathir, so I can't discount the possibility that he would be open to altering his translation based on a discussion.

You, on the other hand, are more obsessed with being right and tarnishing my credibility on this forum based on false personal information about me than actually engaging in a discussion.

It seems you can't even see clearly enough to acknowledge my position in the discussion, much less adequately respond to it.

There's no need to further embarrass yourself by pressing the issue. You clearly don't understand my position.

However, feel free to continue to personally attack me as I can think of no better way for you to lower your own position.

To be clear, my position is this:

The translation of the term "Haajah" in the Hadith of Abu Barzah should be left as "need" and not "marriage" since the Prophet SAWS clearly took the news of eligible Ansari women and matched them up with eligible males. The Prophet SAWS did not just decide whether the "wanted to marry them or not" and that was that.

I do not deny that the Ansar who brought news to the Prophet SAWS of an eligible woman also privately hoped that he SAWS might consider taking the eligible women as wives. However there is no proof, NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE, that this hope was the only motivation in doing so nor was it the only intention the Prophet SAWS had in allowing the custom.

That is a ridiculous proposition and contrary to the text of the Hadith itself. Yet that is the crux of your argument and basis for your attacks against me, at least in this discussion.

Only a person Hell-bent on an alternative agenda could be so blind to the facts.

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

Btw أيِّم is the widow

It also means "widow", but that is not the only definition.

From Ibn Qutaybah's Ghareeb al-Hadeeth:

لأيم: الْمَرْأَة لَا زوج لَهَا بكرا كَانَت أَو ثَيِّبًا. وَكَذَلِكَ الرجل إِذا لم تكن لَهُ امْرَأَة فَهُوَ أيم

"Al-Ayyim: the woman who has no husband, whether she is a virgin or not. And likewise the man who has no wife, thus he is "Ayyim"."

From 2/46.

It is strange that you would be so restrictive regarding the definition of the term "Ayyim", yet expansive in your reading of the term "Haajah".

The debate is not whether the term "Haajah" is related to the Prophet SAWS, as that is clearly the case grammatically.

The question is about "how" it relates to the Prophet SAWS.

There is no Arab linguist who provides a general meaning of "marriage" for the term "Haajah". The term "Haajah" is an extremely generalized term whose meaning is always going to be subject to the specific context in which it is found.

In the case of the Hadith of Abu Barzah, the Prophet SAWS approached an Ansari man who had informed the Prophet SAWS of his daughter's availability for marriage and asked for her hand on behalf of Julaybeeb RA. In this specific case, the "Haajah" of the Prophet SAWS was to match of the Ansari's daughter with Julaybeeb RA. The "Haajah" in this case is demonstrably NOT for the Prophet SAWS himself to marry the Ansari's daughter.

This being the case, it is not possible to restrict the meaning of the term "Haajah" to "marriage", but rather to leave it in its widely-applied and understood meaning of a general "need".

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

There is no Arab linguist who provides a general meaning of "marriage" for the term "Haajah". The term "Haajah" is an extremely generalized term whose meaning is always going to be subject to the specific context in which it is found.

In the case of the Hadith of Abu Barzah, the Prophet SAWS approached an Ansari man who had informed the Prophet SAWS of his daughter's availability for marriage and asked for her hand on behalf of Julaybeeb RA. In this specific case, the "Haajah" of the Prophet SAWS was to match of the Ansari's daughter with Julaybeeb RA. The "Haajah" in this case is demonstrably NOT for the Prophet SAWS himself to marry the Ansari's daughter.

This being the case, it is not possible to restrict the meaning of the term "Haajah" to "marriage", but rather to leave it in its widely-applied and understood meaning of a general "need".

You are blinded by your lack of knowledge of the language and arrogance.

The Kuwaiti Encyclopedia clearly shows how that is understood. You, on the other hand, do not have a single reference to how you understand it.

Anyone who reads this thread will know that you are ignorant.

Nothing more needs to be said about you.

And I think those on this forum who ignore most of what you write already acknowledge the fact that you lack substance.

As for your claims of someone having a vendetta against you and being jealous of you, let me remind you.

You are not a big deal. One only has a vendetta against someone or is jealous if he knows that the person is of value.

For you to even think that someone would be jealous of you or have a vendetta shows how you are drowned in your arrogance.

And we know that when you said "I have actually put the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) at a higher position" the true reasons why you need re-interpret the text with your misguided understanding were made apparent.

Your "understanding" is wrong both in context of the hadith, how translators have translated it, and according to writers of the Kuwaiti Encyclopedia understood it.

Enjoy your solitude.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

And on a closing note, what is even more hilarious is that your misguided understanding of the text cannot even be termed a "need" in Arabic.

The translation of the term "Haajah" in the Hadith of Abu Barzah should be left as "need" and not "marriage" since the Prophet SAWS clearly took the news of eligible Ansari women and matched them up with eligible males. The Prophet SAWS did not just decide whether the "wanted to marry them or not" and that was that.

You can't tell the difference between a need and a wish.

You have to be the first person on the planet to think man who has a Haaja in a woman in means he wants to marry her off to someone else. Oh dear!

I do not deny that the Ansar who brought news to the Prophet SAWS of an eligible woman also privately hoped that he SAWS might consider taking the eligible women as wives. However there is no proof, NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE, that this hope was the only motivation in doing so nor was it the only intention the Prophet SAWS had in allowing the custom.

The jurists understood it like it is. And not like you are capitalizing it as you know you are in a predicament.

I guess you will never be a jurist. Or even understand Arabic at the rate you are going.

Go on Abu Najm. Make good of your promise. Stop taking peek looks at my posts and put me on block!

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

An entry from the Kuwaiti Encyclopedia of fiQh which puts the issue at hand to rest.

وقال الإمام أبو يوسف - من الحنفية -: لا دلالة في الآية الكريمة على أن اللاتي لم يهاجرن كن محرمات على الرسول عليه الصلاة والسلام؛ لأن تخصيص الشيء بالذكر لا ينفي ما عداه

Imaam Abu Yusuf - from among the Hanafi school of thought - said: There is no evidence in the Noble Verse that the ones [i.e. women] who did not make Hijrah were impermissible for the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) because takhSiiS of something by making mention of it does not negate that which is other than it.


ويجوز للرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم أن يتزوج من نساء الأنصار، قد تزوج عليه الصلاة والسلام من غير المهاجرات صفية وجويرية

It was permissible for the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) that he marry women from among the 'Ansaar. He married صفية and جويرية who were not from the muhaajiraat



وفي مسند الإمام أحمد عن أبي برزة رضي الله عنه قال: كانت الأنصار إذا كان لأحدهم أيم - لم يزوجها حتى يعلم هل للنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فيها حاجة أم لا

And it is present in Musnad Ahmad that Imaam Ahmad reported from أبي برزة that when the 'Ansaar had an أيم they would not marry her until they knew if the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) had any "need" in her or not


فلولا علمهم بأنه يحل له التزوج من نساء الأنصار لما كان هناك داع للتربص والانتظار

Had they not known that it was permissible for him (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) to marry women from the Ansaar, there would have been no need here for waiting.


There is your fiQh reference [MENTION=3349]AbuNajm[/MENTION].

As I said. You were wrong. And you were arrogant.

After the nonsense you said to me in the PM you sent me, the only one who needs to fear humiliation in public or a torment is not me but you. Praise to Allah you left my FB list.

Pray to Allaah I don't pray against you for your comments in that PM.


Volume 6 Page 266

Have a nice day.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

I do not deny that the Ansar who brought news to the Prophet SAWS of an eligible woman also privately hoped that he SAWS might consider taking the eligible women as wives. However there is no proof, NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE, that this hope was the only motivation in doing so nor was it the only intention the Prophet SAWS had in allowing the custom.
That is a ridiculous proposition and contrary to the text of the Hadith itself. Yet that is the crux of your argument and basis for your attacks against me, at least in this discussion.
Only a person Hell-bent on an alternative agenda could be so blind to the facts.

You asked for evidence and you got it. The Kuwaiti Encyclopedia understood it to mean marriage. Jurists look for all possibilities when the evidence permits.

No one, who knows the Arabic language, doubts that the meaning here means marriage as that is how the phrase is used. Even you admit it as a possibility.

What you now need to do is bring us a a single - just one - commentary on the hadith by a reputable scholar who endorses your "theory." As it is, no one on the planet but you understands this hadith to mean what you understand it to mean. What is worse is that you think others like the authors of Kuwaiti Encyclopedia chose the understanding which goes against what you claim should be understood from the hadith.

Bring us one scholar who understood it as you did. If you cannot, then you need to learn not to spread false understandings of the primary texts.

The only one making conjectures here, something you accused me of, is you.

[Tayoofa]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

It also means "widow", but that is not the only definition.

From Ibn Qutaybah's Ghareeb al-Hadeeth:

لأيم: الْمَرْأَة لَا زوج لَهَا بكرا كَانَت أَو ثَيِّبًا. وَكَذَلِكَ الرجل إِذا لم تكن لَهُ امْرَأَة فَهُوَ أيم

"Al-Ayyim: the woman who has no husband, whether she is a virgin or not. And likewise the man who has no wife, thus he is "Ayyim"."

From 2/46.

It is strange that you would be so restrictive regarding the definition of the term "Ayyim", yet expansive in your reading of the term "Haajah".

The debate is not whether the term "Haajah" is related to the Prophet SAWS, as that is clearly the case grammatically.

The question is about "how" it relates to the Prophet SAWS.

There is no Arab linguist who provides a general meaning of "marriage" for the term "Haajah". The term "Haajah" is an extremely generalized term whose meaning is always going to be subject to the specific context in which it is found.

In the case of the Hadith of Abu Barzah, the Prophet SAWS approached an Ansari man who had informed the Prophet SAWS of his daughter's availability for marriage and asked for her hand on behalf of Julaybeeb RA. In this specific case, the "Haajah" of the Prophet SAWS was to match of the Ansari's daughter with Julaybeeb RA. The "Haajah" in this case is demonstrably NOT for the Prophet SAWS himself to marry the Ansari's daughter.

This being the case, it is not possible to restrict the meaning of the term "Haajah" to "marriage", but rather to leave it in its widely-applied and understood meaning of a general "need".

Yes you are right but the first thing that came to my mind after reading the hadith was the الايم means widow or even divorced as prophet SAW said : لا تنكح الأيم حتى تستأمر، ولا تنكح البكر حتى تستأذن )

Second if you notice this part of hadith ( وَكَانَتِ الْأَنْصَارُ إِذَا كَانَ لِأَحَدِهِمْ أَيِّمٌ لَمْ يُزَوِّجْهَاحتَّى يَعْلَمَ هَلْ لِلنَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِيهَا حَاجَةٌ أَمْ لَا )

Which means any of Al Ansar would not arrange a marriage for her until they found out whether the Prophet wanted to marry her or not.”

anyone who knows Arabic will understand from the context of hadith that haajah means marriage because Al Ansaar didnt need a permission from prophet SAW to arrange marriage for their daughters nor they need Him SAW to arrange marriages for them but they hoped if prophet SAW may marry one of their daughters thats why they kept them unmarried until they know if prophet SAW has a need of " marriage " or not !

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

There's no point in arguing about translations with people who don't work as translators.