I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

ZeeshanParvez

A decent translation would take at least an hour or so.

It's a lot to ask of anyone.

[Ummati09]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

A decent translation would take at least an hour or so.

It's a lot to ask of anyone.

http://www.kalamullah.com/musnad-ahmad.html

..... and was wondering whether the tradition discussed in this thread can be found on that link.

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

http://www.kalamullah.com/musnad-ahmad.html

..... and was wondering whether the tradition discussed in this thread can be found on that link.

It sure isn't in those volumes.

They only go up to Hadith #4000 or so in the Musnad of Ibn Mas'ud RA.

The tradition you're looking for is way further than that near Hadith #19000.

[Abu julaybeeb]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

Ive heard different narrations of Julaybeeb ra story

One said he went to go buy his wife some stuff but heard the call and instead went and bought things to prepare for the ghazwa

Another said at the end when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam picked him up and started crying he suddenly smiled and looked away as the hoor of Julaybeeb ra came down and a part of her leg was revealed

Not actually word for word but as in the story

Could you tell me if these 2 narrations are authentic if possible jazakAllah khair
[MENTION=3349]AbuNajm[/MENTION]

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

Ive heard different narrations of Julaybeeb ra story

One said he went to go buy his wife some stuff but heard the call and instead went and bought things to prepare for the ghazwa

Another said at the end when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam picked him up and started crying he suddenly smiled and looked away as the hoor of Julaybeeb ra came down and a part of her leg was revealed

Not actually word for word but as in the story

Could you tell me if these 2 narrations are authentic if possible jazakAllah khair
@AbuNajm

In the biographical, Hadith and historical references I consulted in Arabic, I did not find any of the details you mentioned above. That's not to say they don't exist, I just didn't find them in the most authoritative works like al-Isti'aab, Usd al-Ghaabah, al-Isaabah, Siyar A'lam an-Nubalaa', the Masaaneed, Sunan, etc.

However, being the Ummah of the Isnad, we don't accept matters pertaining to Islam or the Companions RA, or even news about events without verifying the chain of transmission. This chain can be an actual chain of narrators as in a Hadith or Athar, or it can be verifying the trustworthiness and reliability of the source for information about current events.

If I spent time trying to verify everything I heard or read that did not have a reference, then I would never stop dealing with spurious and fabricated information.

However, when I only stick to authoritative and referenced information, I spend more time learning what is authentic and actionable without wasting time on what is doubtful and unverifiable.

[Abu julaybeeb]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

I see thank you for the info
JazakAllah khair

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

You can find the translation here.

translation1.jpg
translation2.jpg
translation3.jpg

[Ummati09]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

You can find the translation here.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]87840[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]87841[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]87842[/ATTACH]

[/MENTION] as well for all his help and the detailed posts about it. May Allah reward you both; Aameen.

[Ummati09]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

In the biographical, Hadith and historical references I consulted in Arabic, I did not find any of the details you mentioned above. That's not to say they don't exist, I just didn't find them in the most authoritative works like al-Isti'aab, Usd al-Ghaabah, al-Isaabah, Siyar A'lam an-Nubalaa', the Masaaneed, Sunan, etc.

However, being the Ummah of the Isnad, we don't accept matters pertaining to Islam or the Companions RA, or even news about events without verifying the chain of transmission. This chain can be an actual chain of narrators as in a Hadith or Athar, or it can be verifying the trustworthiness and reliability of the source for information about current events.

If I spent time trying to verify everything I heard or read that did not have a reference, then I would never stop dealing with spurious and fabricated information.

However, when I only stick to authoritative and referenced information, I spend more time learning what is authentic and actionable without wasting time on what is doubtful and unverifiable.

These are undoubtedly very wise words and an advice to be taken, indeed. However, the only reason why I was after this particular tradition is that it relates to me on a very personal level. So my curiosity for it had its reasons.

Jazaakallah, brother! :)

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

You can find the translation here.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]87840[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]87841[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]87842[/ATTACH]

There are a few issues with this translation, the main one of which is the following:

"If any of the Ansar had a single female relative, they would not arrange a marriage for her until they found out whether the Prophet wanted to marry her or not.”

This is how the author translated:

وَكَانَتِ الْأَنْصَارُ إِذَا كَانَ لِأَحَدِهِمْ أَيِّمٌ لَمْ يزوجها حتى يعلم هل للنبي صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِيهَا حَاجَةٌ أَمْ لا

Which literally says:

"And when any of the Ansar had a single person, they would not marry her off until they knew whether the Prophet SAWS had a need regarding her or not..."

The Arabic only mentions a variant of the term "marry off" in relation to the Ansar, not the Prophet SAWS. As for the Prophet SAWS, the Arabic only mentions the term "Haajah" or "need." And with regard to the single/unmarried individual, it is "need regarding her".

I don't know why the author of the linked translation decided to interpret the Prophet's "need" regarding the single individuals of the Ansar as marrying them himself. It is just as likely, according to the literal translation of the Arabic, that the "need" of the Prophet SAWS was related to his custom of pairing up Ansar and Muhajireen, whether it was two men in cooperative brotherhood, or a single man and single woman in marriage.

This relation of this "need" to the position of the Prophet SAWS as matchmaker in the early community of combined Muhaajireen and Ansar is no more evident than in the text of this Hadith itself where the Prophet SAWS is speaking on behalf of Julaybeeb RA.

Also, I've yet to come across any reference to this alleged "rule" wherein no females from the Ansar in Madinah were allowed to get married until the Prophet SAWS expressed that he himself didn't want to marry her.

Unless someone can point to an actual Fiqh reference wherein this was acknowledged as a rule for the first community in Madinah, then the translation has to be very wrong.

There are other issues with the translation in the link, however that was my main concern.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

There are a few issues with this translation, the main one of which is the following:

"If any of the Ansar had a single female relative, they would not arrange a marriage for her until they found out whether the Prophet wanted to marry her or not.”

This is how the author translated:

وَكَانَتِ الْأَنْصَارُ إِذَا كَانَ لِأَحَدِهِمْ أَيِّمٌ لَمْ يزوجها حتى يعلم هل للنبي صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِيهَا حَاجَةٌ أَمْ لا

Which literally says:

"And when any of the Ansar had a single person, they would not marry her off until they knew whether the Prophet SAWS had a need regarding her or not..."

The Arabic only mentions a variant of the term "marry off" in relation to the Ansar, not the Prophet SAWS. As for the Prophet SAWS, the Arabic only mentions the term "Haajah" or "need." And with regard to the single/unmarried individual, it is "need regarding her".

I don't know why the author of the linked translation decided to interpret the Prophet's "need" regarding the single individuals of the Ansar as marrying them himself. It is just as likely, according to the literal translation of the Arabic, that the "need" of the Prophet SAWS was related to his custom of pairing up Ansar and Muhajireen, whether it was two men in cooperative brotherhood, or a single man and single woman in marriage.

This relation of this "need" to the position of the Prophet SAWS as matchmaker in the early community of combined Muhaajireen and Ansar is no more evident than in the text of this Hadith itself where the Prophet SAWS is speaking on behalf of Julaybeeb RA.

Also, I've yet to come across any reference to this alleged "rule" wherein no females from the Ansar in Madinah were allowed to get married until the Prophet SAWS expressed that he himself didn't want to marry her.

Unless someone can point to an actual Fiqh reference wherein this was acknowledged as a rule for the first community in Madinah, then the translation has to be very wrong.

There are other issues with the translation in the link, however that was my main concern.

If you think what you think then you are unaware of the idiom of the Arabic language. That phrase is used according to the idiom to mean to want to marry. I suggest you stop trying to pick at translations especially when they are right.

Trust me brother, there are very professional translators out there who are better than you. You have a horrible habit of doing what you do, I have seen it on Facebook with other brothers. Finally, please learn the idiomatic use of a language. That is all the advice I have for you.

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

If you think what you think then you are unaware of the idiom of the Arabic language.

I always appreciate when people disagree with me on something and then they automatically default to a stance that necessitates I have some sort of deficiency.

I would not be a published translator if I was "unaware of the idiom of the Arabic language."

However I'm certainly not perfect either.

That phrase is used according to the idiom to mean to want to marry.

There are two possibilities:

1) it refers to the Prophet SAWS having the first priority to marry the unmarried women in Madinah; or

2) it refers to the Prophet SAWS having the discretion to marry off singles in Madinah.

I have never heard of #1 and the Qareenah of the Hadeeth suggests #2.

If you are saying that #2 is not possible according to the Arabic language, then it is you who is "unaware of the idiom of the Arabic language."

I suggest you stop trying to pick at translations especially when they are right.

I suggest you mind your own business if you're going to insist on something without backing it up with anything other than conjecture and biased opinion.

Trust me brother, there are very professional translators out there who are better than you.

I'm sure there are. I'm also sure you're not one of them.

You have a horrible habit of doing what you do, I have seen it on Facebook with other brothers.

People have a horrible habit of posting terrible translations that are clearly NOT RIGHT. Some people appreciate when others point out their mistakes or better ways to translate Arabic to English. Other people just like to cry about things, apparently.

Finally, please learn the idiomatic use of a language. That is all the advice I have for you.

Seems like you need to review the difference between advice and admonishment. What you have done is admonish me based on your own opinion without demonstrating any desire whatsoever to correct the issue you see with proof and relevant advice.

Of course the term "Haajah" is related to marriage in the context provided, however the Qareenah here is that the "need" is related to the Prophet SAWS wanting to marrying the "Ayyimun" to someone else, like in the case of Julaybeeb RA.

In order to translate the passage as in the link, there must be a Qareenah for the Prophet SAWS himself having to approve every single Khitbah, or marriage proposal. This is a matter of etiquette or a legal ruling that is unknown to me. If it is known to others, then it should be easy to produce a text which indicates this ruling or etiquette.

There is an instance in another Hadeeth where a woman presented herself to the Prophet SAWS for marriage and he SAWS passed on the offer. Another Companion RA sitting nearby overheard this and said that if the Prophet SAWS had no "need" for her, if he could marry her instead. This was related to etiquette and the chapters of Fiqh related to Khitbah, or marriage proposals, among other Abwaab of Fiqh.

None of the explanations of this other Hadeeth say that among the Khasa'is of the Prophet SAWS is to have the first priority of marrying any non-married woman in Madinah.

The translation makes an interpretation that establishes a right specific to the Prophet SAWS that I've never heard of before. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, however I need to see proof aside from this random translation to establish it as correct.

If you were sincerely giving "advice" you would show external proof that the translation in the link is a legitimate ruling or matter of etiquette for the early community of Muslims in Madinah.

Instead you decided to admonish me and avoid giving external proof which demonstrates you have a grudge or ill-will towards me, apparently over some nonsense and crying on Facebook.

I thought you were a fair brother but apparently you have a vendetta. That makes your "advice" unwelcome. I will take any proof you might have, but I'm not expecting it...

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

I would not be a published translator if I was "unaware of the idiom of the Arabic language."

Is that self published? Or did you get fired? You spend an awful lot of time on random forums as opposed to translating. You had nine days and you couldn't spend one hour - which you claimed - to translate th piece for the OP. Yet, you write a thesis trying to defend yourself now?

However I'm certainly not perfect either.

No one is. But I hope this isn't a sympathy call for yeah I know I am kinda wrong here but you know everyone makes mistakes.

There are two possibilities:

1) it refers to the Prophet SAWS having the first priority to marry the unmarried women in Madinah; or

2) it refers to the Prophet SAWS having the discretion to marry off singles in Madinah.

I have never heard of #1 and the Qareenah of the Hadeeth suggests #2.

If you are saying that #2 is not possible according to the Arabic language, then it is you who is "unaware of the idiom of the Arabic language."



I suggest you mind your own business if you're going to insist on something without backing it up with anything other than conjecture and biased opinion.

I am going to call a spade a spade. You will not find any scholar who understood that phrase like you want to understand it in this hadith here.

People have a horrible habit of posting terrible translations that are clearly NOT RIGHT. Some people appreciate when others point out their mistakes or better ways to translate Arabic to English. Other people just like to cry about things, apparently.

People do post terrible translations. When that happens, you call it out. But when the translation is correct and in line with the common usage of the phrase you do not come about confusing those who do not know the language. The phrase here means to want to marry and you will not find a single scholar who understood this hadiith differently.

Go on find us one who claims what you claim for this hadith.

If not, then the only one crying right now is you with a thesis long reply which no substance but just whines.

Seems like you need to review the difference between advice and admonishment. What you have done is admonish me based on your own opinion without demonstrating any desire whatsoever to correct the issue you see with proof and relevant advice.

I was not advising you. I was admonsighing you for your blunder here. The translator is right and you are wrong. Now, if you will, I have better things to do than waste my time.

[AbuNajm]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

Is that self published?

Nope. I'm published by a Muslim government and well-known sites for Islamic texts among others.

It's clear you don't know me, though you pretend as if you do.

Or did you get fired?

Now you're just gossiping. I was never fired from any position.

You spend an awful lot of time on random forums as opposed to translating. You had nine days and you couldn't spend one hour - which you claimed - to translate th piece for the OP. Yet, you write a thesis trying to defend yourself now?

What "forums" are those? This is the only forum I'm active on. As for translating, let's see what you've translated and had published.

This would only be about the link you gave except you keep making things personal because you lack honor.

Now that you mention how I spend my time and lies about my personal life that give a negative impression, it appears you are jealous.

I am going to call a spade a spade. You will not find any scholar who understood that phrase like you want to understand it in this hadith here.

The burden in on the person who claims that the translation is correct. Show me an explanation of the Hadith where the interpretation given is mentioned by the scholars.

People do post terrible translations. When that happens, you call it out. But when the translation is correct and in line with the common usage of the phrase you do not come about confusing those who do not know the language. The phrase here means to want to marry and you will not find a single scholar who understood this hadiith differently.

The person who translated the Arabic said that "Haajah feehaa" means "marry her", which is not correct at all. Again, if there is a Qareenah which specifies that the "need for her" is to "marry her", then by all means, stop wasting my time and point it out. Rather the Qareenah in the narrative of the Hadith clearly suggests that the "need" is for matching the unmarried woman with a Companion.

Go on find us one who claims what you claim for this hadith.

If not, then the only one crying right now is you with a thesis long reply which no substance but just whines.

Again, the burden in on the claimant not the questioner. This is principles of Islamic debate 101.

I was not advising you. I was admonsighing you for your blunder here. The translator is right and you are wrong. Now, if you will, I have better things to do than waste my time.

That's what I thought. You lied about claiming to "advise" me.

In order to "admonish", you'd have to be in a position to do so. What is your expertise and experience in the Arabic language? Where are your works of translation?

Indeed you are wasting your time, and more. You are earning sins through gossip, slander and avoiding the point.

You brought a bad translation and I criticized it with proof. Now you can't back it up except to attack me personally.

Please don't bother responding without proof for this translation by way of scholarly explanations of this very Hadith showing that the Prophet SAWS had a unique right to have the first priority in marrying any unmarried women in Madinah.

Again, my understanding and the actual translation of the text gives the Prophet SAWS priority in terms of having the option to marry off the unmarried women to Companions and the other understanding is that the Ansar all preferred that their unmarried female relatives marry the Prophet SAWS, so they made it a habit to check with him SAWS first.

Neither of those is conveyed by the translation in the link and they are both more likely interpretations than the one mentioned.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Re: I need a reference from Musnad Ahmad of this Hadeeth

Nope. I'm published by a Muslim government and well-known sites for Islamic texts among others.

It's clear you don't know me, though you pretend as if you do.

Abu Najm bin al-Iskandar you have been published on Sunnah.com and Kalaamullaah. Both websites pirate material and put them up.

Is this your credential. Or is that not you? If it isn't, Ill offer you a public apology right now.

Now you're just gossiping. I was never fired from any position.

You seem not to understand written language to well. I asked you a question as it baffles me to see you spend so much time on forums [do you deny you were on IA forum and MultaQa]

What "forums" are those? This is the only forum I'm active on. As for translating, let's see what you've translated and had published.

Were you on those forums or not?

This would only be about the link you gave except you keep making things personal because you lack honor.

Spare me the whines. There is nothing personal when it comes to the truth. You sit on your computer and put down translators who actually have published works, read by thousands, and then cannot take criticism. Are you really this arrogant and deluded by your "excellence?"

Now that you mention how I spend my time and lies about my personal life that give a negative impression, it appears you are jealous.

I have lied about your personal life? Go on tell me that person above on Facebook is not you, and you have not published your Introduction to Sahih Muslim on websites which support pirated material.

If not I will offer you a public apology here right now.

The burden in on the person who claims that the translation is correct. Show me an explanation of the Hadith where the interpretation given is mentioned by the scholars.
Again, the burden in on the claimant not the questioner. This is principles of Islamic debate 101.

No, the burden of proof lies on a person who takes the phrase understood by the customs of the language in a certain way and then claims it is not such.

You know as well as I do that no scholar understood the hadith as you want the audience to understand it since you have confused an obligation with an act the anSaar did out of love. Confused. Confused. Confused.

The person who translated the Arabic said that "Haajah feehaa" means "marry her", which is not correct at all.

It is correct. You see what I mean when I say you do not understand. Read and you will know that the phrase

كان له فيها حاجة

Is used when a man has an interest in a woman. And you have already pointed out one hadith where it was justed. That is why it took you so long to reply the first time around. You go on your computer, searched Google and Sunnah to see if was used like that. Didn't you.

يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ جِئْتُ أَهَبُ لَكَ نَفْسِي . فَنَظَرَ إِلَيْهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَصَعَّدَ النَّظَرَ فِيهَا وَصَوَّبَهُ ثُمَّ طَأْطَأَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم رَأْسَهُ فَلَمَّا رَأَتِ الْمَرْأَةُ أَنَّهُ لَمْ يَقْضِ فِيهَا شَيْئًا جَلَسَتْ فَقَامَ رَجُلٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِهِ فَقَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ لَكَ بِهَا حَاجَةٌ فَزَوِّجْنِيهَا

Again, if there is a Qareenah which specifies that the "need for her" is to "marry her", then by all means, stop wasting my time and point it out. Rather the Qareenah in the narrative of the Hadith clearly suggests that the "need" is for matching the unmarried woman with a Companion.

No, there is not any Qareenah which suggest that. Rather, when you read the whole hadith [something called reading in context which you seem not to do as it even shows here where you chop a writers sentences and answer to them not knowing that a whole piece conveys a compete thought and not the individual sentences] you know that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) [and please type out sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam and not use short hand SAW] said:


إني لست أريدها لنفسي



And if you had any clue how the word khataba is used, and how the wife responded which was as follows:

فقالت: نعم. ونعمة عيني

To which the husband responded

إنه ليس يخطبها لنفسه إنما يخطبها لجليبيب


The fact that the wife understood it to mean he (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) was asking her for himself (sallaallaahu alayhi wa sallam) shows that this was the presumption they had because of the fact that the anSaar waited to see if the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) might want to marry.

What more of an honor would it be to have your daughter married to best of creation?

Second, when the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) came and said:

زوجني ابنتك


The father would not have understood that to mean what he thought to which the reply was

إني لست أريدها لنفسي


Had they believed what you claim it to be, the thought would not have crossed their mind and the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) would not have to say that I do not want [her] for myself.

It is called reading in context. You need to learn that it seems.


So, there isn't a Qareenah but Qaraa'in which oppose what you conjecture.

As a person going against the customary usage of the phrase and the fact that the context of the text which follows clearly shows that the phrase was used in its customary usage, you have to provide the evidence for your convoluted understanding which is merely a conjecture.

So, bring a scholar who understood it like you did. In the meantime read this.

Indeed you are wasting your time, and more. You are earning sins through gossip, slander and avoiding the point.

Now you demonstrate that you do not know what those words mean in English either.

You brought a bad translation and I criticized it with proof. Now you can't back it up except to attack me personally.

The translation is correct. What you have a problem with is thinking you are a Arabic grand master. The fact is that you are not. The translator is right. And you are wrong. Those with sound knowledge of the language will tell you.

You clearly do not understand Arabic if you think the translation is wrong. Given your weird interpretation I do not think you got beyond the first line hence your troubles.

Please don't bother responding without proof for this translation by way of scholarly explanations of this very Hadith showing that the Prophet SAWS had a unique right to have the first priority in marrying any unmarried women in Madinah.

Another cry for please do not criticize me it hurts me but I can criticize anyone I like. You really need to get a grip on your attitude.

Again, my understanding and the actual translation of the text gives the Prophet SAWS priority in terms of having the option to marry off the unmarried women to Companions and the other understanding is that the Ansar all preferred that their unmarried female relatives marry the Prophet SAWS, so they made it a habit to check with him SAWS first.

This shows why you want to re-interpret the text. First, you think it was an obligation that they had to wait. No, it was out of their love. Second, you find that to be against a "higher moral value" you have created in your mind. Hence, your need to give it a spin to save yourself from feeling uneasy.