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  • Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

    Hi. I've been trying to learn as much as possible about Islam. I've read most of the Quran, read books and watches videos so I'll try to articulate my understanding and some questions.

    So there was the prophet Muhammad who wrote the Quran. I get how this process was miraculous and likely spiritually guided but, why consider Muhammad and the Quran to be the final say? ... I know Muhammad declared that this is so but I cannot see a compelling reason to believe him. Why can't we see him as *a* prophet of Allah and not *The final prophet* of Allah? Seems to be quite reasonable.

    Because from the viewpoint of Islam as it is it seems that the unbelievers will never be validated as human beings deserving of free will.

    Islam is of a particular aesthetic and quality which may be more suitable to people of a certain geographical vicinity, ethnicity, and history. Places like Europe and North-east Asia for instance have not found Islam to be a good fit. And the Muslim viewpoint would have to regard these folks as unequivocally wrong..

    The secular west wants peaceful co-existence with other cultures and races, however they also want hegemony over the lands of which they have held dominion and stewardship over for generations. Are Muslims OK with the fact the West wants to keep it this way? Or is the consensus that the West should convert eventually to a religion which is alien to them?

  • #2
    Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

    Bismillah

    The Prophet (sallAllahu 'Alayhi wasallam) was the last messenger because this is confirmed in both the Qur'an and the Sunnah.

    Allah says in the Qur'an: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (33:40)"


    This is also further confirmed in the sayingg of the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam).

    So Yes, we Muslims believe that Islam is meant for the entire world, and that the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam) was sent for every human being.

    Allah says in the Qur'an: "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.(21:107)"


    Worlds (translation of 'alameen meaning everything that exists. )
    The Love Allah has for Prophet Muhammad ﷺ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acm3R7MbO_Q

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

      Originally posted by Abdullah012 View Post
      Bismillah

      The Prophet (sallAllahu 'Alayhi wasallam) was the last messenger because this is confirmed in both the Qur'an and the Sunnah.

      Allah says in the Qur'an: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (33:40)"


      This is also further confirmed in the sayingg of the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam).

      So Yes, we Muslims believe that Islam is meant for the entire world, and that the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam) was sent for every human being.

      Allah says in the Qur'an: "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.(21:107)"


      Worlds (translation of 'alameen meaning everything that exists. )
      So then we can expect conflict until either Islam or the west is subdued...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

        Originally posted by Gnome View Post
        So then we can expect conflict until either Islam or the west is subdued...
        Islam won't be subdued because it is the Religion of Truth and Allah عز و جل will make is supreme over all other ways of life,

        Surah Al-Fath Chapter 48 : Ayah 28

        هُوَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُۥ بِٱلْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ ٱلْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُۥ عَلَى ٱلدِّينِ كُلِّهِۦۚ وَكَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ شَهِيدًا

        He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of Truth (Islam), that He may make it (Islam) superior over all religions. And All-Sufficient is Allah as a Witness.

        سبحان الله
        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

          That''s all based on the assumption that all Islamic scripture is flawless and infallible. There are billions of people who do not hold this belief. So what you are implying is that Islam will have to be imposed onto others by force.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

            This is based on the assumption that all Islamic scripture is flawless and infallible. There are billions of people who do not hold this belief. So you are implying that Islam will have to be imposed on others by force.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

              Originally posted by Gnome View Post
              Hi. I've been trying to learn as much as possible about Islam. I've read most of the Quran, read books and watches videos so I'll try to articulate my understanding and some questions.
              It's good you're trying to learn, and not just relying upon the media and others who may try to sway your opinions against Islam, may Allah guide you to the truth, ameen.

              So there was the prophet Muhammad who wrote the Quran. I get how this process was miraculous and likely spiritually guided but, why consider Muhammad and the Quran to be the final say? ... I know Muhammad declared that this is so but I cannot see a compelling reason to believe him. Why can't we see him as *a* prophet of Allah and not *The final prophet* of Allah? Seems to be quite reasonable.
              Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not write the Quran, in fact he was illiterate. The Quran was revealed to him, and if you do believe Muhammad to be spiritually guided, a Prophet of God then you have to accept the finality of Prophet-hood also. This is because God Himself tells you this is so:

              but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last of the Prophets

              Quran translation, Chapter al-Ahzaab 33:40

              So if Muhammad is Prophet, the Quran is true, and therefore he has to be the last Prophet. You cannot have one without the other.

              Because from the viewpoint of Islam as it is it seems that the unbelievers will never be validated as human beings deserving of free will.
              I don't figure how you come to this conclusion. You can be wrong and still have free will.

              Islam is of a particular aesthetic and quality which may be more suitable to people of a certain geographical vicinity, ethnicity, and history. Places like Europe and North-east Asia for instance have not found Islam to be a good fit. And the Muslim viewpoint would have to regard these folks as unequivocally wrong..
              I disagree, but as an indigenous European who has accepted Islam I would do.
              Islam is timeless and suitable for any ethnicity of people, as long as they are willing to let go of their non-islamic customs and practices. That still leaves an awful lot of other things which are permissible from my culture and thousands of other people accepting Islam each year would also disagree with you.

              I would agree that yes we view others, east or west who do not follow Islam as unequivocally wrong.


              The secular west wants peaceful co-existence with other cultures and races, however they also want hegemony over the lands of which they have held dominion and stewardship over for generations. Are Muslims OK with the fact the West wants to keep it this way? Or is the consensus that the West should convert eventually to a religion which is alien to them?
              I'd disagree with the first premise. The secular west wants the assimilation of other cultures and subservience of them to it's own greed and needs, especially that of it's elite, and are quite willing to use massive levels of force to get it's way.
              As people commanded to stand firm for justice I am not even ok with the people of the west following such a way of life, never-mind their imposition of it on others and I want to show them a better way.
              FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

              www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post



                Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not write the Quran, in fact he was illiterate. The Quran was revealed to him, and if you do believe Muhammad to be spiritually guided, a Prophet of God then you have to accept the finality of Prophet-hood also. This is because God Himself tells you this is so:

                but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last of the Prophets

                Quran translation, Chapter al-Ahzaab 33:40

                So if Muhammad is Prophet, the Quran is true, and therefore he has to be the last Prophet. You cannot have one without the other.
                No. The prophet could have been 99% right and 1% wrong, or 60% right and 40% wrong etc. Just because he was divinely inspired some of the time doesn't mean he was perfect.

                The part where You said "God himself said this is so" ..that presupposes Muhammad was always channeling God. There is no reason to believe thus. He could have been channelling a spirit, Satan, anything some of the time, God via Gabriel other times.

                Or he could have been consciously or unconsciously speaking from his own ego some of the time, Satan for some of the time, Gabriel some of the time.. and so on.
                Last edited by Gnome; 29-06-17, 06:01 AM. Reason: another point

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                  Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
                  As people commanded to stand firm for justice I am not even ok with the people of the west following such a way of life, never-mind their imposition of it on others and I want to show them a better way.
                  But you're right that the west is in bad shape right now, regarding sexual immorality, drug addiction, and other vices, never mind the foreign policy we are to varying degrees complicit in... Muslims are right to point much of this out. But I don't think taking on Islam in it's entirety is the answer for the West. Bits of it maybe but there's so much of it that is unnecessary and wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                    Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post


                    I'd disagree with the first premise. The secular west wants the assimilation of other cultures and subservience of them to it's own greed and needs, especially that of it's elite, and are quite willing to use massive levels of force to get it's way.
                    As people commanded to stand firm for justice I am not even ok with the people of the west following such a way of life, never-mind their imposition of it on others and I want to show them a better way.
                    But you're right that the west has major problems right now, particularly with sexual immorality, drug addiction, other vices, and foreign policy which we are to varying degrees complicit in.. Muslims are right to point some of of this out.

                    Muslims for example, forbid alcohol, which is worth talking about and there is something there fore sure. I don't think forbidding it outright is the answer but the point is the people in the west need more control and discipline over our sinful tendencies.. And we are working on it, there is much momentum these days behind the new right, the alt-right, christian traditiionalists and other groups.

                    I just don't think a conversion to Islam in it's entirety is possible for the west and to strive for it will not lead to anything good.

                    I have my own relationship with Allah our Creator. I don't see Islam and all it's rules to be a benefit to me or the west in general. My prayer life is already rich and the Islamic rules around prayer would only detract from this. And things like music being haram is just way out there. To say that a person 1400 years ago with no connection to me ethnically, culturally, geographically, should have authority over my spiritual life is completely unrealistic.

                    So an Islamic world will never happen. If the continued attempt is made for this to be imposed by force we will fight it like we always have been.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                      Dear brother,

                      You have made a few mistakes in your journey to explore Islam
                      1) Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) did not write Qur'an. He was a human being. Qur'an is the word of God. To seek proof of it google up miracles of Qur'an and compare it with the time Qur'an came down and whether that information was known at that time or even 100 years down the road.
                      2) To understand Qur'an you need to pick up a reputed book of tafsir to know which group of people and situation the verses were revealed to and the background story. There are different levels of understanding of the Qur'an. If you want ultimate understanding you need to get deeper analysis. The Arabic words used in Qur'an has multiple meanings and God in His infinite wisdom chose those particular words to convey the fullest meaning.
                      3) Qur'an says Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is the final prophet so if you believe in Qur'an that question of yours is solved.
                      4) From the viewpoint of Islam as evident from Qur'an and Sunnah the prophet's duty was to deliver the message of God to them. What they do with it after is between them and God.
                      5) Islam was not for a particular geographical location. Every single rule is for the betterment of mankind.
                      6) Muslims are ok with coexistence. However, spreading the word of Islam is believed to be a favor upon our neighbors. Umar Ibn Khattab (RA) allowed jews and Christians to live peacefully in the land of Palestine when it was conquered till the pigs called crusaders came in and killed everyone who did not agree with them, including 70000 muslims, and Christians of different sects.

                      Regards.
                      Ask yourself why you were created. Do not let society distract you from seeking the truth.
                      Sahih International, 63:3 (Surah Al-Munafiqun)
                      That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                        Originally posted by Gnome View Post
                        Why can't we see him as *a* prophet of Allah and not *The final prophet* of Allah? Seems to be quite reasonable.
                        Well, it is not that reasonable. If other people start making "corrections", the motivation will almost always be political.
                        Originally posted by Gnome View Post
                        Places like Europe and North-east Asia for instance have not found Islam to be a good fit... Or is the consensus that the West should convert eventually to a religion which is alien to them?
                        As long as Christianity was an undefeated and expansive creed, the obstacle to find converts in Europe was quite substantial. Christianity has been defeated from within. I do not say that it is completely dead in Europe, but not much is left from its former glory. The Christian point of view has always been that paganism whereunder atheism does not work. Religious people will have to pick something that Christianity is no longer bringing. Hence, there is a void that will always get filled up. Of all other religions (than Christianity), Islam is the most evangelical. Furthermore, Islam is vibrant and growing. Lots believers really believe. We cannot predict the future, but I suspect that you can expect to keep seeing a growing Islam presence in Europe. If Islam is alien to a particular person, you can say to him that there is no compulsion in religion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                          Originally posted by pronorah View Post
                          Well, it is not that reasonable. If other people start making "corrections", the motivation will almost always be political.

                          As long as Christianity was an undefeated and expansive creed, the obstacle to find converts in Europe was quite substantial. Christianity has been defeated from within. I do not say that it is completely dead in Europe, but not much is left from its former glory. The Christian point of view has always been that paganism whereunder atheism does not work. Religious people will have to pick something that Christianity is no longer bringing. Hence, there is a void that will always get filled up. Of all other religions (than Christianity), Islam is the most evangelical. Furthermore, Islam is vibrant and growing. Lots believers really believe. We cannot predict the future, but I suspect that you can expect to keep seeing a growing Islam presence in Europe. If Islam is alien to a particular person, you can say to him that there is no compulsion in religion.
                          Seems accurate. The last vestiges of real Christianity are in America, and America will remain strong. Christian Europe is likely lost at this point. However with the Alt-right, new right, and other groups, we can see incredible passion and determination to defend...something, be it "the west" or the white race, there is not really any consensus yet. But we can see the degeneration of the west and know that the solution is a return to traditional values, like being pro-monogamy, pro-family, pro-temperance, anti-degeneracy. The will and passion is there, but the traditional authority of the church has been basicallly delegitimized.

                          It's like we are left scrambling to create a sort of Lord of the Flies style makeshift spiritual authority. As a Christian I think this is a good thing as we are re-discovering the value of traditionalism in a practical sense while leaving behind nonsense axioms like "the Bible is the literal word of God" and such. I think it will work out, and though Islam offers something that could fill the void, it will never be as appealing as a new western religious paradigm. And I believe we will succeed in doing this.

                          Dr. Blitz I knew Muhammad was illiterate didn't literally "write" the Quran but I meant "wrote" in the sense of dictated or channelled.

                          Also regarding the tafsir, to me this concedes the argument that the Quran is historically and geographically contextual only and to apply the Quran to modern times we would be left thinking "what would the prophet do in this modern situation, and that modern situation" And the result would be that we would impose an update on the original Islam.

                          Same goes for all the Quran verses which promote outright violence towards unbelievers, for example. They can only be interpreted in two ways: 1) that the words are applicable to all times and the Quran is therefore an eternal declaration of war, or 2) The verses were time specific and a response to persecution, which would imply that the Quran must be adapted to novel situations. This then could create a giant hole in fundamentalist Islam where we could say that all verses can be negotiated or updated.

                          Regarding Palestine and zionism I don't know enough so I won't comment but frankly I don't see the appeal of living in a desert anyway.. They should have just put the Jews on an uninhabited Island somewhere.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                            Originally posted by Dr. Blitz View Post
                            Dear brother,

                            You have made a few mistakes in your journey to explore Islam
                            1) Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) did not write Qur'an. He was a human being. Qur'an is the word of God. To seek proof of it google up miracles of Qur'an and compare it with the time Qur'an came down and whether that information was known at that time or even 100 years down the road.
                            2) To understand Qur'an you need to pick up a reputed book of tafsir to know which group of people and situation the verses were revealed to and the background story. There are different levels of understanding of the Qur'an. If you want ultimate understanding you need to get deeper analysis. The Arabic words used in Qur'an has multiple meanings and God in His infinite wisdom chose those particular words to convey the fullest meaning.
                            3) Qur'an says Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is the final prophet so if you believe in Qur'an that question of yours is solved.
                            4) From the viewpoint of Islam as evident from Qur'an and Sunnah the prophet's duty was to deliver the message of God to them. What they do with it after is between them and God.
                            5) Islam was not for a particular geographical location. Every single rule is for the betterment of mankind.
                            6) Muslims are ok with coexistence. However, spreading the word of Islam is believed to be a favor upon our neighbors. Umar Ibn Khattab (RA) allowed jews and Christians to live peacefully in the land of Palestine when it was conquered till the pigs called crusaders came in and killed everyone who did not agree with them, including 70000 muslims, and Christians of different sects.

                            Regards.
                            The scientific knowledge in the Quran stuff is really interesting, like the speed of light and knowledge about biology and the cosmos.

                            Still, if all that knowledge came from Allah, we may never know, as I said in a prior post.

                            And to this you might say I am doing mental gymnastics, however, there are a few things the Quran got wrong as well.

                            Also, I think also in the Vedas they demonstrated knowledge about the cosmos that was accurate even before our modern scientific perspective confirmed it.

                            For now, I am compelled to take a holistic approach in my journey to God. Thanks for taking the time to point these things out. helpful.
                            Last edited by Gnome; 03-07-17, 09:08 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Questions for Muslims by non-Muslim

                              Originally posted by Gnome View Post
                              No. The prophet could have been 99% right and 1% wrong, or 60% right and 40% wrong etc. Just because he was divinely inspired some of the time doesn't mean he was perfect.

                              The part where You said "God himself said this is so" ..that presupposes Muhammad was always channeling God. There is no reason to believe thus. He could have been channelling a spirit, Satan, anything some of the time, God via Gabriel other times.

                              Or he could have been consciously or unconsciously speaking from his own ego some of the time, Satan for some of the time, Gabriel some of the time.. and so on.
                              There is a difference between the Quran and 'the sunnah' i.e the life, sayings and example of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)

                              Regarding the Quran, it is to Muslims the literal word of God, not the inspired word, not the creation of God, the literal word and as such is taken to be 100% from God.

                              As for the sayings and example of Muhammad, there is a strict verification process first of all to establish this is something he has actually said or done. And though there are few examples of where he is speaking for himself just as a man, generally his example was like that of a man living the Quran day to day and God commands us to follow this example and refer back to it.
                              FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

                              www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

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