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Is praying pointless?

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  • #31
    Re: Is praying pointless?

    Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
    I don't know what that school of thought is but what would be the Islamic answer to that omnipotence paradox:

    'LOL CAN GOD CREATE A ROCK THAT IS TOO HEAVY FOR HIM TO LIFT LOL!!!! ?
    It's a stupid question, asked and entertained by stupid people, from the stupid school of thought.

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    • #32
      Re: Is praying pointless?

      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
      It's a stupid question, asked and entertained by stupid people, from the stupid school of thought.
      Can you elaborate more why you find it stupid?

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      • #33
        Re: Is praying pointless?

        Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
        Can you elaborate more why you find it stupid?
        You or your question?

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        • #34
          Re: Is praying pointless?

          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
          You or your question?
          This question:

          'LOL CAN GOD CREATE A ROCK THAT IS TOO HEAVY FOR HIM TO LIFT LOL!!!!1' ?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Is praying pointless?

            Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
            This question:

            'LOL CAN GOD CREATE A ROCK THAT IS TOO HEAVY FOR HIM TO LIFT LOL!!!!1' ?
            Well it doesn't make sense as it's rhetorical and designed to instigate a certain type of response.

            You are of that (stupid) school of thought... I knew it.

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            • #36
              Re: Is praying pointless?

              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
              Well it doesn't make sense as it's rhetorical and designed to instigate a certain type of response.

              You are of that (stupid) school of thought... I knew it.
              It was you who brought that question into the thread. But I don't think that question is stupid. The question questions the limits of absolute omnipotence. Calling a question and questioner stupid doesn't answer anything.

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              • #37
                Re: Is praying pointless?

                Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
                It was you who brought that question into the thread. But I don't think that question is stupid. The question questions the limits of absolute omnipotence. Calling a question and questioner stupid doesn't answer anything.
                How would you go about answering the question?

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                • #38
                  Re: Is praying pointless?

                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                  How would you go about answering the question?
                  I would say there is no such thing as absolute omnipotence.

                  How would you?

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                  • #39
                    Re: Is praying pointless?

                    Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
                    I would say there is no such thing as absolute omnipotence.
                    So the question is useless to both the believer and the disbeliever. Hey, it sounds clever when you're high on opium trying to impress your friends.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Is praying pointless?

                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      So the question is useless to both the believer and the disbeliever. Hey, it sounds clever when you're high on opium trying to impress your friends.
                      So you wont answer the question because you find it useless, stupid etc?

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                      • #41
                        Re: Is praying pointless?

                        Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
                        So you wont answer the question because you find it useless, stupid etc?
                        It's a rhetorical/philosophical question. There is no answer.

                        It might sound clever but it's not that compelling once you sober up.
                        Last edited by Abu 'Abdullaah; 12-06-17, 08:00 PM. Reason: typo

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                        • #42
                          Re: Is praying pointless?

                          First I'd like to say that I am just a layman so take what I am going to say with a grain of salt. But at the same time, I hope it clears up the confusion for you. I'll try to get a little creative here so that I can reach your mind.

                          Now we are going to do a mental exercise of sorts. Imagine you are sitting in a classroom or something, And on your desk you are handed two papers and a pen(or pencil, I dunno). Now the paper on the left has something drawn or written or whatever on it, but you can't see what it is because it's face down and you can't flip it. Not yet at least.

                          You are now instructed to draw or write or scribble or whatever you will on the paper on the right. And you are to do this until you've had enough. So you do that, you write your name or some other names or words or you draw a square or a shape, or you scribble nonsense on the paper, anything. And then you stop. When you stop and declare that you have stopped, you are to put your pen or pencil down and to never touch it again.

                          Now you can flip the paper on the left and view it's contents. And when you do, you'll see that it's contents are the exact same as the contents on the paper to your right which you've drawn/scribbled/written on. The parallels here are that the paper on your left is your qadr, Which God the all knowing already knows of course. And the paper on your right is your actions as they unfold throughout your life.(now not everything in this imaginative scenario is meant to parallel life accurately, but stay with me)

                          When you are writing/drawing on the paper on the right, that is you doing actions in your life. When you have finished doing that, that is your death. The conclusion of your life. And after that is done. It will always match the contents of the paper on the left when you flip it. Any actions you do to make the contents differ are impossible in parallel. For example if after you declare you have stopped and flip the paper on the left you draw on the paper on the right again. That is the equivalent of revival, which is impossible of course.(without God's power of course). If while mid-drawing you flip the paper on the left early, that is the equivalent of seeing the future. Which again is impossible for us, except for God who knows the future, and knows everything else.

                          Now while you may ask "what's the point if the result is already there", you are asking the wrong question. The result is what it is Because of your actions and not Despite your actions.(there are other factors like your parents/guardians, your environment, etc. but these are semantics). God created for us a world where our actions are what we are held accountable for when judging us in regards to the hereafter, and God's knowledge of what we are going to do and how are lives are going to pan out does not in the tiniest bit take away from the value of our actions and experiences. Your actions matter.

                          The only way you could have issue with this, is not if you wanted your actions to matter(since they do), but if you wanted your actions to not be in the qadr, To not be within God's absolute knowledge, Then that is to try to overcome God's power. Which is a very big and grave Haram and God is absolutely more powerful than all of us and all of the universe combined many times over. Of course you never claimed to want to do such a Haram. But that is the path that you might eventually be led to if you continue to persist that your actions do not matter or don't make a difference simply because God already knows.

                          Finally, this all applies in regards to praying as well. The "If I pray or not" paradox does not work here for much the same reason. Because you see. While whether God answers your prayer or not is already in the qadr. Whether you pray or not is also in the qadr as well. And for much the same reasons above, your prayer is not rendered moot or pointless just because God already knows which of the two you'll do. Nor because the result is already known and determined. There's no "If I pray or if I don't pray", You'll do one of the two, and pondering "what-if" beyond that is pointless. When you ask God for something, and he gives it to you. And God already knew that you'd ask for it and that he'd give it to you. Your prayer still took part in God answering your prayer and that gives your prayer purpose and weight to your actions. And some prayers unanswered or some actions without result does not take away from the purpose of prayers or the weight of your actions.

                          If you shoot someone in the head, and he dies. So it was written for him to die on that day. Saying "He was already destined to die that day, so did what I do matter?" is already a wrong question. Your actions matter, prayer included, because you have a good degree of power and agency over your life. While at the same time your actions do not change your qadr because God is more powerful than us all.

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