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Is praying pointless?

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  • Is praying pointless?

    Is praying pointless?

    The God is omniscient and knows everything that is going to happen in the future and the outcome of every situation is know to him.
    He has already planned the future (al-qadr) and he is the best of the planners and nothing happens against his plan and will.

    Now if I ask God for something...

    If that thing is part of his plan, it will happen regardless of my praying.
    If that outcome is not part of his plan, it will simply not happen.

    If he changes his plan after my prayer, the first outcome was never going to happen and was never part of his plan because he always knew his plan and the final outcome?

  • #2
    Re: Is praying pointless?

    Prayer can change 'Qadr', at times. Plus, it's a worship in itself because regardless of the end outcome, the prayer to Allah is symbolic of our reliance upon Allah and thus acknowledging that He has power to help us, only. And if nothing else, it's comforting when you pray for something because it's sort of entrusted it to another (here 'another' being Allah), and therefore taking the worry away.

    Anyway read here https://islamqa.info/en/11694

    You've been refuted essentially.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is praying pointless?

      Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
      Is praying pointless?

      The God is omniscient and knows everything that is going to happen in the future and the outcome of every situation is know to him.
      He has already planned the future (al-qadr) and he is the best of the planners and nothing happens against his plan and will.

      Now if I ask God for something...

      If that thing is part of his plan, it will happen regardless of my praying.
      If that outcome is not part of his plan, it will simply not happen.

      If he changes his plan after my prayer, the first outcome was never going to happen and was never part of his plan because he always knew his plan and the final outcome?
      This is a common fallacy propogated by non Muslims,

      Knowing and compelling someone to do something arbitrarily are 2 different matters,

      Whatever Allah عز و جل decreed is with his knowledge and wisdom, he does not decree stuff arbitrarily

      Kuffar or Mushrikun used to say Allah عز و جل Guides who he wants and he misguides or leaves to stray who wants...

      In other words insinuating it's his fault,

      However Allah عز و جل refuted his Evil argument in the Qur'an,

      Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 26:

      "...as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allah intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. AndHe misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fasiqun (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah)."

      The blame Always tests upon the individual, there is no passing the buck,

      :sub:
      http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

      "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

      – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is praying pointless?

        Originally posted by Morose View Post
        Prayer can change 'Qadr', at times. Plus, it's a worship in itself because regardless of the end outcome, the prayer to Allah is symbolic of our reliance upon Allah and thus acknowledging that He has power to help us, only. And if nothing else, it's comforting when you pray for something because it's sort of entrusted it to another (here 'another' being Allah), and therefore taking the worry away.

        Anyway read here https://islamqa.info/en/11694

        You've been refuted essentially.
        The confusing and hard to grasp concept is all-knowing omniscient Allah changing the al-qadr.

        If by al-qadr you and I mean fate/predestination and things Allah knows about the future in advance then just imagine: Allah knows an event A will happen and that's the qadr/fate/predestination, but a prayer changes things and now another event B will happen instead and that's what Allah knows now and that is qadr/fate/predestination. I'm sure Allah always knew that there will be prayer and eventually event B will happen, right? Does that make the previous knowledge of event A correct predestination?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Is praying pointless?

          This whole line of thinking is flawed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is praying pointless?

            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
            This whole line of thinking is flawed.
            Respond to post #4 A'A

            I would but I don't want to say something incorrect.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is praying pointless?

              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
              This whole line of thinking is flawed.
              +1

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is praying pointless?

                Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
                Is praying pointless?

                The God is omniscient and knows everything that is going to happen in the future and the outcome of every situation is know to him.
                He has already planned the future (al-qadr) and he is the best of the planners and nothing happens against his plan and will.

                Now if I ask God for something...

                If that thing is part of his plan, it will happen regardless of my praying.
                If that outcome is not part of his plan, it will simply not happen.

                If he changes his plan after my prayer, the first outcome was never going to happen and was never part of his plan because he always knew his plan and the final outcome?
                No it will not happen regardless of you praying. You praying is a prerequisite, it has to definitively happen in order for Him to definitively choose a reaction to it.

                Knowing the future has no impact on it. If He knows you will ask, He knows whether He will give you or not - it's not like He can know that you will ask and then you change your mind and don't ask but He somehow still knows that you will ask when you really won't and that it happens regardless lol - either you will ask or you won't ask. And He knows which of the two will happen and has decided whether to reply or not.

                If you will ask Him for something, He may grant it to you because you made the effort to ask Him.
                If you don't ask Him, then He won't give you what you asked for because you never asked for it.

                This all presuming that He gives kuffar what they ask for.
                Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Is praying pointless?

                  When Kuffar come up with illogical arguments to refute Islam,

                  Your know something is seriously wrong with them,
                  http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                  "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                  – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is praying pointless?

                    Originally posted by shabbir80 View Post
                    Is praying pointless?

                    The God is omniscient and knows everything that is going to happen in the future and the outcome of every situation is know to him.
                    He has already planned the future (al-qadr) and he is the best of the planners and nothing happens against his plan and will.

                    Now if I ask God for something...

                    If that thing is part of his plan, it will happen regardless of my praying.
                    If that outcome is not part of his plan, it will simply not happen.

                    If he changes his plan after my prayer, the first outcome was never going to happen and was never part of his plan because he always knew his plan and the final outcome?
                    By making Dua you ask Allah to hasten the promise, you forgot to mention Allah is the most Merciful turning to Allah not only increases or insures your desires are achieved but increases your benefit on the Day of Judgment and the hereafter, and at times Allah will not answer your Dua and it will not happen no matter what because Allah does not desire it, praying to Allah isn't for his benefit it's for your own.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is praying pointless?

                      Originally posted by Abu Jarir View Post
                      By making Dua you ask Allah to hasten the promise, you forgot to mention Allah is the most Merciful turning to Allah not only increases or insures your desires are achieved but increases your benefit on the Day of Judgment and the hereafter, and at times Allah will not answer your Dua and it will not happen no matter what because Allah does not desire it, praying to Allah isn't for his benefit it's for your own.
                      Basically this ,I think the dua we ask itself is part of the qadr ,so Allah swt knows we will ask this dua.
                      See we dont know how it will be thats why we have choice ,and we rely on our creator.

                      Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

                      **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

                      Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antê” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is praying pointless?

                        Originally posted by Morose View Post
                        Respond to post #4 A'A

                        I would but I don't want to say something incorrect.
                        The problem is that OP is basing his reasoning entirely on philosophy. He starts with the 'assumption' that 'god' exists and jumps forward. However. if he doesn't actually believe that 'god' exists, then it's futile because even if everything about al-qadr wal qadha was crystal clear, his get out clause is that it's all academic since 'god' doesn't exist anyway.

                        X is illogical therefore 'god' doesn't exist
                        X is logical but it doesn't prove 'god' exists

                        It's all an exercise in futility.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is praying pointless?

                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                          The problem is that OP is basing his reasoning entirely on philosophy. He starts with the 'assumption' that 'god' exists and jumps forward. However. if he doesn't actually believe that 'god' exists, then it's futile because even if everything about al-qadr wal qadha was crystal clear, his get out clause is that it's all academic since 'god' doesn't exist anyway.

                          X is illogical therefore 'god' doesn't exist
                          X is logical but it doesn't prove 'god' exists

                          It's all an exercise in futility.
                          These Atheist Nutjobs tend to be masters in futile self refuting arguments,

                          I heard some here at work,

                          I wonder why they have a brain in the first place, if this is what they are doing with it,

                          :jkk:
                          http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                          "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                          – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is praying pointless?

                            Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                            These Atheist Nutjobs tend to be masters in futile self refuting arguments,

                            I heard some here at work,

                            I wonder why they have a brain in the first place, if this is what they are doing with it,

                            :jkk:
                            Sometimes Atheists can be quite stubborn indeed. AFAIK some don't care about others' arguments and are just too arrogant to take others' points into consideration.

                            That being said I think the OP is an agnostic.

                            Barakallahu feek.
                            If following Aḥmad makes me a 'Wahhābī', then I declare that I am one.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is praying pointless?

                              Originally posted by muzzybee View Post
                              Basically this ,I think the dua we ask itself is part of the qadr ,so Allah swt knows we will ask this dua.
                              See we dont know how it will be thats why we have choice ,and we rely on our creator.
                              was thinking the same
                              Indeed we belong to Allah,
                              and indeed to Him we will return.


                              Quran 2:156

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