Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

    Why does the quran says people won't carry your sins in 29:12 and then says they will in 29:13? Also, i found the hadith from Sahih Muslim number 6666:
    " Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire."
    I just want to understand it as I'm interested in islam but i'm still not sure.

  • #2
    non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

    Can't anybody aswer me? Please

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

      Hi anna; dont know the authenticity of that hadith but if it should be correct it possibly refers to the injustice that jews and chirsitans do us; they go to the ends of the earth to try take us away from Islam and they opress us; not all of them but i think ALlah will put them opressors in fire instead as compensation to the muslims

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

        one other thing ... the opression of non-believers do make muslims sin too; one can experience this for themselves; if they are done a wrong by someone than they tend to loose their balance ... satan over powers them and hey turn to sin to 'feel better' etc, so it could be the ins that we commited due to the opression of the non-believers that will be loaded on them

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

          This makes sense...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

            :start:
            [29:12] Those who disbelieve say unto those who believe: Follow our way (of religion) and we verily will bear your sins (for you). They cannot bear aught of their sins. Lo! they verily are liars.
            [29:13] But they verily will bear their own loads and other loads beside their own, and they verily will be questioned on the Day of Resurrection concerning that which they invented.
            Ibn Kathir said,
            [...]
            (and let us bear your sins.) meaning, `if there is any sin on you, we will bear it and it will be our responsibility'. It is like a person saying: "Do this, and your sin will be on my shoulders.'' Allah says, proving this to be a lie:
            [...]
            (And verily, they shall bear their own loads, and other loads besides their own.) Here Allah tells us that those who call others to disbelief and misguidance will, on the Day of Resurrection, bear their own sins and the sins of others, because of the people they misguided.
            In Islam, if you do a sin, and somebody else does a sin which was not caused by your sin, then neither of you are responsible for eachother's sin.
            But if you sin, and somebody else sins too as a result, then the "price" of that sin is added to "your account" too as well as the one who sinned after you.

            For example;
            A steals a wooden plank from a construction site, B hurts somebody in a supermarket - they bear the sin that they made, they don't get to bear eachother's additionally.
            A invents a new way of gambling, and B commits gambling using that new way - B has the sin of gambling, A has the sin of inventing a new way of people to gamble as well as B gambling.

            In the first ayah(verse), it says that the disbelievers are telling the believers that if they would convert to their religion, then the disbelievers calling them would "take on" the believers' "independent sins"(like "Believe me and your alcoholism, murder, rape etc. will be forgiven"), sins that they didn't cause by any means. And Allah(subhanahu wa ta'aala) says that they can't do this.
            In the second ayah, it says that the disbelievers will carry the sins for those whom they caused to go astray - any sin the followers were to commit which they wouldn't had they been believers, that will be a burden on the ones who lead them astray.
            Last edited by Thunderstorm; 01-08-16, 01:20 PM.
            Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

            Comment


            • #7
              non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

              thank you for replying

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                Originally posted by Thunderstorm View Post
                A invents a new way of gambling, and B commits gambling using that new way - B has the sin of gambling, A has the sin of inventing a new way of people to gamble as well as B gambling.

                In the first ayah(verse), it says that the disbelievers are telling the believers that if they would convert to their religion, then the disbelievers calling them would "take on" the believers' "independent sins"(like "Believe me and your alcoholism, murder, rape etc. will be forgiven"), sins that they didn't cause by any means. And Allah(subhanahu wa ta'aala) says that they can't do this.
                In the second ayah, it says that the disbelievers will carry the sins for those whom they caused to go astray - any sin the followers were to commit which they wouldn't had they been believers, that will be a burden on the ones who lead them astray.
                If A recognizes his/her sin, are they ever able to be forgiven it as well as that of B? or is it a permanent debt which will be accounted for?

                Kind Regards

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                  Originally posted by Josh987654321 View Post
                  If A recognizes his/her sin, are they ever able to be forgiven it as well as that of B? or is it a permanent debt which will be accounted for?

                  Kind Regards
                  If A repents of his sin, he will be forgiven. If he asks for forgiveness, he may be forgiven.
                  B is not forgiven for A's repentance, B has to repent to be forgiven.

                  On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said:
                  I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Allah the Almighty said: O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it. It was related by at-Tirmidhi (also by Ahmad ibn Hanbal). Its chain of authorities is sound.


                  The prerequisites are that the one seeking forgiveness or repenting is a muslim and that he is alive in this lifetime.
                  Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                    Not even hadith, but in the tafsir by Ibn Kathir.
                    Originally posted by ForeverMonotheist1
                    Your subject contradicts quran. In Quran the Merciful Lord says no soul will bear the sins of other soul.
                    Of couse not. But if you start a fire, and your neighbour's house begins to burn too as a result, how is that not your fault? Is it the neighbour's? Is it nobody's?
                    The question was about the interpretation of the verses, because some things may be left out due to the translation, and if the context isn't clear(what happened right before or after the verses were revealed) etc.
                    i.e. A will have A's sin, B will have B's sin - Allah(subhanahu wa ta'aala) did not allow for A to be able to bear both of their sins and B to have no sin as a result.
                    And in the second verse, Ibn Kathir clarified,
                    [...]bear their own sins and the sins of others, because of the people they misguided
                    i.e. A will bear A's sin and a "copy" of B's sin, and B will carry B's sin.
                    Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                      Or better yet, a commonly cited and real scenario:
                      Who was responsible for the death toll in World War II?; Hitler or the soldiers who did the actual killing or both?
                      Are the soldiers responsible for what Hitler did?
                      Is Hitler responsible for what the soldiers did?
                      Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                        Originally posted by Thunderstorm View Post
                        If A repents of his sin, he will be forgiven. If he asks for forgiveness, he may be forgiven.
                        B is not forgiven for A's repentance, B has to repent to be forgiven.

                        The prerequisites are that the one seeking forgiveness or repenting is a Muslim and that he is alive in this lifetime.
                        I don't see how this is any different to Christianity? Which is what I think your previous verse is referring to.

                        Originally posted by Thunderstorm View Post
                        In the first ayah(verse), it says that the disbelievers are telling the believers that if they would convert to their religion, then the disbelievers calling them would "take on" the believers' "independent sins"(like "Believe me and your alcoholism, murder, rape etc. will be forgiven"), sins that they didn't cause by any means. And Allah(subhanahu wa ta'aala) says that they can't do this.
                        Even though B was not the instigator of the sin, he still sinned and needs to be forgiven doesn't he? I don't understand what exactly he is saying 'they can't do'.

                        Thank you

                        Kind Regards
                        Last edited by Josh987654321; 03-08-16, 12:17 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                          Originally posted by Josh987654321 View Post
                          I don't see how this is any different to Christianity? Which is what I think your previous verse is referring to.



                          Even though B was not the instigator of the sin, he still sinned and needs to be forgiven doesn't he? I don't understand what exactly he is saying 'they can't do'.

                          Thank you

                          Kind Regards
                          They can't bear eachother's sin, i.e. A & B will only be rid of their sins if they repent or ask for forgiveness and are forgiven. They can never "unload" or transfer their sins onto eachother or other people to leave themselves free from the sin instead of repenting or asking forgiveness. That's what they can't do.
                          And then, in the second verse, again; it states that causing a chain reaction leaves the instigator culpable for each successive sin as well as the instigation, whereas the people in the chain just bear the sin that they commit.

                          In Christianity, I suppose some denominations may have other views, but to the best of my knowledge most accept the belief that Jesus(alayhi salaam) took the sins of the world onto himself when he supposedly died on the cross. But we believe that not even Muhammad(salallahu alayhi wa sallam) can bear anybody's sins, nor any of the other prophets and messengers(alayhumma salaam), so we would differ in this with Christians.
                          Last edited by Thunderstorm; 03-08-16, 01:27 AM.
                          Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                            Originally posted by Thunderstorm View Post
                            They can't bear eachother's sin, i.e. A & B will only be rid of their sins if they repent or ask for forgiveness and are forgiven. They can never "unload" or transfer their sins onto eachother or other people to leave themselves free from the sin instead of repenting or asking forgiveness. That's what they can't do.
                            And then, in the second verse, again; it states that causing a chain reaction leaves the instigator culpable for each successive sin as well as the instigation, whereas the people in the chain just bear the sin that they commit.

                            In Christianity, I suppose some denominations may have other views, but to the best of my knowledge most accept the belief that Jesus(alayhi salaam) took the sins of the world onto himself when he supposedly died on the cross. But we believe that not even Muhammad(salallahu alayhi wa sallam) can bear anybody's sins, nor any of the other prophets and messengers(alayhumma salaam), so we would differ in this with Christians.
                            But when someone murders an innocent person, the innocent person must bear that sin, e.g. death, if someone steals a bike, someone must bear that sin, e.g. the loss of their bike?

                            Forgiveness doesn't bring the murdered back to life nor restore the bike in perfect working order.

                            I hope this has helped

                            Kind Regards

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: non-believers will or won't carry believers' sins?

                              Originally posted by AnnaMaria View Post
                              Why does the quran says people won't carry your sins in 29:12 and then says they will in 29:13? Also, i found the hadith from Sahih Muslim number 6666:
                              " Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire."
                              I just want to understand it as I'm interested in islam but i'm still not sure.
                              29:12 refutes the Kuffar who claim they will take someone's sins if they follow them,

                              29:13 doesn't say the opposite, it says they will bear other loads besides the sins they committed.

                              This is stated elsewhere, such as the people they mislead, they will have a share in their sins,

                              For example...


                              Surah An-Nahl, Ayah 25:

                              لِيَحْمِلُوا أَوْزَارَهُمْ كَامِلَةً يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَمِنْ أَوْزَارِ الَّذِينَ يُضِلُّونَهُم بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ أَلَا سَاءَ مَا يَزِرُونَ


                              They wil bear their own burdens in full on the Day of Resurrection, and also of the burdens of those whom they misled without knowledge. Evil indeed is that which they shall bear!

                              Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 03-08-16, 03:10 AM.
                              http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                              "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                              – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X