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  • Courtship - haram?

    Is courtship haram? Could somebody please back up their opinion with Koran / Sunnah quotes.

    I imagine it's of great use to exchange letters with somebody, to get to know them and see if you like them.

    I imagine it's a wonderful thing to love somebody before you marry them.

    It's surely all covered by the idea that people ought to get married a,s.a.p. so therefore they won't fall in love with one person after another without actually marrying anybody.

    In fact I would say that love is the fulfillment of one's life. The purpose of life is to worship. The max. fulfillment of that is to find love (only very lucky people find love, you can't force it to happen). Therefore love = the max. fulfillment of life. Therefore I believe it's okay to find love before you marry, or even after you marry, if love happens it's a good thing surely, as long as the man and woman are abiding by the rules of their religion. This brings me back to the question: Is courtship actually haram?

    Koran 5:87 (Pickthall translation)
    "O ye who believe! Forbid not the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, and transgress not, Lo! Allah loveth not transgressors."
    Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

  • #2
    Re: Courtship - haram?

    Any playa can tell a woman what she wants to hear in a letter or face to face, then he puts his game into full swing. Next thing you know........ well you know ! and then he's of to look for his next victim.
    I have left you on a clear path, its night is like its day. None stray from it except he is destroyed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Courtship - haram?

      Any private conversation/interaction before marriage between a man and a woman is not allowed. So letters and email and texts would all fall under that.
      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Courtship - haram?

        Naughty naughty. I was after Koran and Sunnah edicts :)

        [p.s.: any "playa" could also fake being a Muslim / being a good Muslim, and going straight into marriage without any courtship, so that's a mute point you're making]
        Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Courtship - haram?

          minus the "naughty" but seriously: I need opinions to be backed up with relevant Koran and Sunnah quotes.
          Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Courtship - haram?

            [p.s.: any "playa" could also fake being a Muslim / being a good Muslim, and going straight into marriage without any courtship, so that's a mute point you're making]

            Then that's surely what they would call a LONG con. He would have to fake being a muslim, praying in the masjid on a regular basis, getting to know the community, fake... all just for a .......well you know.

            http://islamqa.info/en/93450
            I have left you on a clear path, its night is like its day. None stray from it except he is destroyed.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Courtship - haram?

              Originally posted by daniel_agnostic View Post
              minus the "naughty" but seriously: I need opinions to be backed up with relevant Koran and Sunnah quotes.
              Daniel are you muslim?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Courtship - haram?

                Originally posted by abu salmah View Post
                Then that's surely what they would call a LONG con. He would have to fake being a muslim, praying in the masjid on a regular basis, getting to know the community, fake... all just for a .......well you know.
                http://islamqa.info/en/93450
                No, it would be a shorter con that having to do all that correspondence first. Also, that URL doesn't quote Koran and Sunnah. I really need Koran and Sunnah quotes, sorry.
                Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Courtship - haram?

                  Hi TCKMuslima - I wouldn't think so, no. :) Maybe one day :)
                  Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Courtship - haram?

                    Originally posted by daniel_agnostic View Post
                    Is courtship haram? Could somebody please back up their opinion with Koran / Sunnah quotes.

                    I imagine it's of great use to exchange letters with somebody, to get to know them and see if you like them.

                    I imagine it's a wonderful thing to love somebody before you marry them.

                    It's surely all covered by the idea that people ought to get married a,s.a.p. so therefore they won't fall in love with one person after another without actually marrying anybody.

                    In fact I would say that love is the fulfillment of one's life. The purpose of life is to worship. The max. fulfillment of that is to find love (only very lucky people find love, you can't force it to happen). Therefore love = the max. fulfillment of life. Therefore I believe it's okay to find love before you marry, or even after you marry, if love happens it's a good thing surely, as long as the man and woman are abiding by the rules of their religion. This brings me back to the question: Is courtship actually haram?

                    Koran 5:87 (Pickthall translation)
                    "O ye who believe! Forbid not the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, and transgress not, Lo! Allah loveth not transgressors."
                    Ok even though you didn't answer my question I'll add my two cents :)

                    I don't agree with you that love is the maximum fulfillment of ones life. Love is a blessing, a sign and a test.

                    A courtship like the one you outline with one on one interaction is not allowed. The most cited reason for that is the hadith where the Prophet SAW said that if a man and woman are alone together the third is the shaytan. (I can reference that if you'd like)

                    So one on one chatting and phone calls come under that. However, if you were to include a third person preferably from the girl's side. Then if there are no other reasons for the prohibition (I'm unaware of that - especially when the intention is for marriage) I think that would be ok. This is my personal opinion from what little knowledge I have.

                    However, things do happen sometimes, mistakes are made and we may end up liking/loving someone. In that case there is a hadith.

                    It was narrated from Ibn Abbas that:
                    the Messenger of Allah said: “There is nothing like marriage, for two who love one another.”
                    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ مُسْلِمٍ، حَدَّثَنَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ مَيْسَرَةَ، عَنْ طَاوُسٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏ "‏ لَمْ نَرَ لِلْمُتَحَابَّيْنِ مِثْلَ النِّكَاحِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Courtship - haram?

                      As-salamu `alaykum brother,

                      Thank you for the honest question you asked regarding dating. There are a number of issues that you brought up. First, you have pointed out that you live in a society where dating is the norm. While I understand and sympathize with that struggle, it is important to make clear that just because something is the norm in one’s society, does not justify participating in it. In the society that the Prophet (sal-Allahu alayhi wa-sallam) lived, burying little girls alive was the norm. Of course, the principles of Islam prohibited such barbarism – regardless of what was widespread at the time.

                      In fact, the Prophet (sws) has told us that those who follow the right path will always be ‘different’ or ‘strange’ to the mainstream. In one beautiful hadith, the Prophet (sws) says: “Islam began as something strange, and will revert to being strange as it began. So give glad tidings to the strangers.” Then the people asked, “Who are they (the strangers), O Messenger of Allah?” He answered, “Those who are pious and righteous when the people have become evil.” (Ahmad)

                      Secondly, you state the concern of getting to know someone for marriage. You explain that dating is needed since arranged marriages are not feasible. However, by saying this you imply that these are the only two routes to getting married. What you are forgetting is that there is a third option: the option taught to us by our beloved Prophet (sws). Let us examine each of the three options for meeting a marriage partner:

                      1) Dating

                      One option is dating. This option is prohibited for a number of reasons. First, the Prophet (sws) has taught us that it is haram for a non-mahram (unrelated) man and a woman to be alone together. This is called khilwa. He warns that if this happens, Shaytan (satan) will be present with them. The Prophet (sws) said: “Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third.” (Sahih Bukhari) Now it is important to note that Allah never prohibits something unless it is harmful to us. Let us examine for a moment the harm in this.

                      First, most reports of sexual abuse are not committed by strangers. In fact, according to the U.S. Department of Justice, 68% of young girls raped knew their rapist either as a boyfriend, friend or casual acquaintance, and 60% of rapes of young women occur in their own home or a friend or relative’s home – not in a dark alley. So, overwhelmingly, it is those people who you are out on a ‘date’ with that commit these crimes. Also, as dating has become more widespread in a society, so has unwanted pregnancy, as well as sexually transmitted diseases. By prohibiting khilwa, Allah, in His infinite wisdom, is protecting us.

                      Also, as you know even consensual extra-marital intercourse (zina) is a grave sin in Islam. But Allah did not just tell us not to commit zina. He says in the Qur’an: “Do not come close to zina for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).” (Qur’an, 17:32). One does not leave their infant to play on a highway, but hope they will not get hit by a car. One important Islamic principle is: prevention before cure. You do not come close to fire, and then wonder why you got burned. Therefore, Allah has prohibited anything that may lead to zina, namely khilwa (being in seclusion). Now if just being in seclusion is prohibited, what can be said about physical contact and the whole institution of dating?

                      In support of dating, some argue that it is needed in order to find a spouse. The irony in this is that dating does not increase marital success. In fact, the United States is a culture where dating is the norm. However, 50% of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology. And according to a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research, couples who lived together before marrying have nearly an 80 percent higher divorce rate than those who did not. So if dating is putting you at a higher risk of sexual abuse, sexually transmitted disease, and unwanted pregnancy, and it makes you no more likely to find a successful marriage partner – but in fact less likely – what logical person would chose this option, even if it were not prohibited by Islam?

                      2) Arranged Marriage

                      There is also the option of completely arranged marriages. While it is fine for parents or mutual friends to introduce two prospective partners, the Prophet (sws) has told us not to go into a marriage blindly. Once a man came to the Prophet (sws) and told him that he was going to get married. The Prophet (sws) asked if he had seen the woman. When the man said no, he said: “Go and look at her for it is more likely to engender love between the two of you.” (Ahmad)

                      3) Islamic Courting

                      Islam provides the balanced solution to courting, which protects the individual and the society, but does not have people enter marriage blindly. If there is a woman you are considering for marriage, you should approach her mahram (male relative). From there, many avenues exist to get to know her better, without having to be in seclusion or engaging in physical contact. Talking to someone in the company of a mahram, gives you a chance to find out more about them, without crossing the boundaries set by Allah in His infinite wisdom. The Prophet Muhammad (sws) said, “Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, let him not have a private audience with a woman without her mahram.” (Ahmad)

                      This is the way designed by our Creator, who made everything in the universe, who knows what is hidden and what is open, who knows the future and the past, who knows us, better than we could ever know about ourselves. How could we ever think that a better system could exist than the one prescribed by our Maker and the master of the universe?

                      Wallahu `alam.

                      I pray that what I’ve said has been beneficial to you. Anything I said that was right, it is from Allah. Anything wrong, is from myself.
                      Women lost their modesty when men lost their gheerah..” .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Courtship - haram?

                        Oh whoops you did answer my question while I was posting. Sorry. There's no edit option...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Courtship - haram?

                          Originally posted by TCKMuslima View Post
                          Ok even though you didn't answer my question I'll add my two cents :)
                          Please see Post #9 :)

                          Originally posted by TCKMuslima View Post
                          I don't agree with you that love is the maximum fulfillment of ones life. Love is a blessing, a sign and a test.
                          Love is a miracle from God, and it is the path to God. It's a long chain of reasoning, but that's my conclusion. Love is something which transcends the physical, so it's greater than anything in this physical world.

                          Originally posted by TCKMuslima View Post
                          the hadith where the Prophet SAW said that if a man and woman are alone together the third is the shaytan. (I can reference that if you'd like)
                          Letter correspondence is not literally being alone, but I get your meaning. It is a type of being alone. Then, what if 2 people met and courted each other, each with their guardians nearby? Or the letters were addressed to and passed on through their guardians?

                          Originally posted by TCKMuslima View Post
                          However, if you were to include a third person preferably from the girl's side. Then if there are no other reasons for the prohibition (I'm unaware of that - especially when the intention is for marriage) I think that would be ok.
                          I see :)


                          Originally posted by TCKMuslima View Post
                          It was narrated from Ibn Abbas that:
                          the Messenger of Allah said: “There is nothing like marriage, for two who love one another.”
                          حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ مُسْلِمٍ، حَدَّثَنَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ مَيْسَرَةَ، عَنْ طَاوُسٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏ "‏ لَمْ نَرَ لِلْمُتَحَابَّيْنِ مِثْلَ النِّكَاحِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
                          This hadith backs up my view that love is the max. fulfillment of this life :)
                          Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Courtship - haram?

                            Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                            As-salamu `alaykum brother,
                            Wa salam :)


                            Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                            you have pointed out that you live in a society where dating is the norm. While I understand and sympathize with that struggle, it is important to make clear that just because something is the norm in one’s society, does not justify participating in it.
                            I don't think I said that :)


                            Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                            You explain that dating is needed since arranged marriages are not feasible.
                            I wasn't talking about dating, nor about arranged marriages :)


                            Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                            you imply that these are the only two routes to getting married.
                            Nope, whether a person marries for love, conserving wealth in a banking family, getting a visa, thinking someone looks good, or liking a person's religiosity, it's all fine by me, as long as it's legal.


                            Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                            3) Islamic Courting

                            Islam provides the balanced solution to courting, which protects the individual and the society, but does not have people enter marriage blindly. If there is a woman you are considering for marriage, you should approach her mahram (male relative). From there, many avenues exist to get to know her better, without having to be in seclusion or engaging in physical contact. Talking to someone in the company of a mahram, gives you a chance to find out more about them, without crossing the boundaries set by Allah in His infinite wisdom. The Prophet Muhammad (sws) said, “Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, let him not have a private audience with a woman without her mahram.” (Ahmad)
                            So, there you go, you're agreeing that courtship is not haram, and it is therefore possible to love a person before marrying them. :)
                            Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Courtship - haram?

                              Except, like the other person, you're adding that a "mahram" must be present for each person.
                              Every normal person makes mistakes, therefore too much religious disputation is vain and egotistical - goodbye Ummah.com. Peace be upon you.

                              Comment

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