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Umar [RA} suspending the Hadd? QUESTIONS!

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  • Umar [RA} suspending the Hadd? QUESTIONS!



    I would like a clear perspective on the incident during the reign of Umar when he did not apply the Hadd punishment of cutting off the hand of a thief during a time of famine.

    Now there appears to be four explanations floating around the Internet for why this occurred:

    View #1: Umar :RA: used a "Maqasid-based" approach and reasoned that one of the objectives of the Shariah, namely "Bodily Integrity" (or "Hifz un Nafs") took precedence over the objective of "Preserving Wealth" and for that reason did not cut off the hand of the offender. You can find a proponent of this view here: http://www.lamppostproductions.com/?p=3698#comment-734 You can find a proponent of this view here: http://alternativeentertainment.word...ear-of-famine/

  • #2
    Re: Umar [RA} suspending the Hadd? QUESTIONS!

    Isn't that a little too many questions for one thread? Perhaps you could pick one and then move to others. I don't think anyone is going to try to answer all those at once.
    Watch those eyes

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    • #3
      Re: Umar [RA} suspending the Hadd? QUESTIONS!

      Originally posted by JustinCredible7 View Post


      I would like a clear perspective on the incident during the reign of Umar when he did not apply the Hadd punishment of cutting off the hand of a thief during a time of famine.

      Now there appears to be four explanations floating around the Internet for why this occurred:

      View #1: Umar :RA: used a "Maqasid-based" approach and reasoned that one of the objectives of the Shariah, namely "Bodily Integrity" (or "Hifz un Nafs") took precedence over the objective of "Preserving Wealth" and for that reason did not cut off the hand of the offender. You can find a proponent of this view here: http://www.lamppostproductions.com/?p=3698#comment-734

      View #2: That Umar :RA: did this based on what I suppose to be a hadith found in the Jami‘ of as-Sa'di as well as in the at-Tarikh ul Kabir of Imam al-Bukhari in mu‘allaq which reads “The hand is not severed (in the cases of) taking from a tree and famine.” You can find a proponent of this view here: http://alternativeentertainment.word...ear-of-famine/

      View #3: That Umar :RA: did this because there was doubt whether a person who had committed theft did so due to need, since it supposedly had been said, that when he had looked upon them (who are accused of theft) he was of the view that they were in a state of starvation, and that it is supposedly well-known that the Hadd are not applied in cases of doubt.

      View #4: That Umar :RA: did this in accordance with what would later supposedly become well-known two sayings in fiqh, namely that 'Difficulty bring ease' and that "Necessity makes forbidden things permissible.".

      Now I have a couple of questions:

      1.) Is there more than one version of this story? I ask because some of the explanations are based on certain "facts" that would make it difficult to understand how all these could be commenting on the same event.

      2.) Is the statement “The hand is not severed (in the cases of) taking from a tree and famine" a hadith? If so, what have the Ulema said about its authenticity and where can I find it?

      3.) Did Umar :RA: FIRST ORDER that the offender's hand (who he sought to have later saw starvation) be cut and then decide otherwise?

      4.) Did Umar :RA: do this in the case of a single offense by a group of thieves or did this become a general policy during this time of famine for all those found to have stolen food, i.e. a "moratorium"?

      5.) Is there any version of events (if there are multiple versions) speak of whether Umar pardoned them, in a worldly sense, completely, or did he prescribe some other punishment in lieu of the Hadd punishment of cutting the hand?

      If any of my more knowledgeable brothers and sisters or one of our respected scholars could shed some light on the questions posed above, I would greatly appreciate it. This is quite important for me personally.

      :jkk:

      wr wb

      These hadiths may help you to clear your doubts, inshallah

      Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from Muhammad ibn Yahya ibn Habban that a slave stole a small palm from a man's garden and planted it in the garden of his master. The owner of the palm went out looking for the palm and found it. He asked for help against the slave from Marwan ibn al-Hakam. Marwan jailed the slave and wanted to cut off his hand. The master of the slave rushed off to Rafi ibn Khadij and asked him about it. Rafi informed him that he heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, "The hand is not cut off for fruit or palm pith." The man said, "Marwan ibn al-Hakam has taken a slave of mine and wants to cut off his hand. I would like you to go with me to him so you can tell him what you heard from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace." So, Rafi went with him to Marwan ibn al-Hakam. He said, "Did you arrest a slave for this?" He said, "Yes." He said, "What will you do with him?" He said, "I want to cut off his hand." Rafi said to him, "I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, 'The hand is not cut off for dates or palm pith.' Marwan therefore ordered the slave to be released." (Book #41, Hadith #41.11.32)
      My sect - No Sect

      My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

      Just a Muslim

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