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Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

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  • Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

    Narrated Anas: Some people were sick and they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Give us shelter and food. So when they became healthy they said, "The weather of Medina is not suitable for us." So he sent them to Al-Harra with some she-camels of his and said, "Drink of their milk." But when they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away his camels. The Prophet sent some people in their pursuit. Then he got their hands and feet cut and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. I saw one of them licking the earth with his tongue till he died.
    References:
    • Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589, Book: Medicine; Page 1235, Number 5685 (Arabic version)

    source: http://www.al-hadi.us/religion/index_i.html

    Another source (with original Arabic) has has some minor wording changes: http://sunnah.com/bukhari/76 (I google translated the arabic and the part of the hands and feet being chopped off remained, some of the wording changed though).

    The Bukhari is considered one of the most trusted Hadith according to wikipedia. I understand that in the West Islam is not fairly represented, but I see no reason why they would need to really lie about the fact it is respected.

    This is really the only "damning" thing I have found in my studies of the Hadith and Quran (I haven't read it entirely yet), but I was wondering as to the opinions of some of the muslims here on this verse.

  • #2
    Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

    In a narration from Sahih Muslim, it is expanded upon and it is explained that they did something similar to the shepherd of the Prophet :saw: when they murdered him, along with all the other stuff, they got a just and deserving punishment.
    Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

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    Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

      there is explanation by Ibn Hajar that these men are doing the same to the shepherds (torturing, branding with hot iron etc( so the Prophet basically did qisas to them.

      And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

        A source would greatly please me =)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589


          PLEASE I RECOMMEND YOU WATCH THIS VIDEO, IT EXPLAINS VERY WELL!

          FIRSTLY, the student of Knowledge doesn't base his/her opinion on one single hadith. He/she studies vast chain of transmitters and many Hadith on that topic.
          I have to know the context, history (situation) behind the hadith.

          the two men killed were betrayers, traitors. In the US and many other countries, there is capital punishment for betrayal.
          The prophet Muhammad was very kind, generous and handled the situation with justice. He treated their illness and many might say the medicine (as mentioned in hadith 590) was given as disgrace, but know that presently "horse urine" is a medicine prescribed for pregnant women!
          Those men were given time to repent, mend their ways but instead those men deviated more, they betrayed and murdered!

          In ISLAM, punishment is not given right away, nor given to anyone who murders, steals; rather (to explain) the situation is investigated by police, CID. they look for proves, witnesses, reason behind the murder (for e.g.) and then steps are taken, either for qisas, forgiveness, or death penalty.
          Amazing Youtube and facebook page made by Muslims!
          gotta subscribe and check out the videos and News posts!
          like https://www.facebook.com/info.truefaceofislam
          https://www.youtube.com/user/ncapcs?sub_confirmation=1

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

            Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
            A source would greatly please me =)
            sure. it's here

            http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-t...es-slowly.html

            excerpt :

            It should be made clear that those people who came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were Muslims and they were sick. The Prophet advised them to go to the herd of camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). When they became healthy, they killed theherder of the Prophet and drove away all the camels that were allocated forsadaqah(charity).

            When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) came to know about this, he applied the punishment for Hirabah on them. Hirabah means killing people, robbing their money or raping women by an armed group of people. The punishment for hirabah is mentioned in the Qur¡¯an. Allah says: ¡°The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that theywill be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom¡±(Al-Ma¡¯idah 5: 33)

            As for branding their eyes, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) branded the eyes of the people of `Ukl or `Uraina with iron because they killed the herder and branded his eyes with iron.

            Imam Ibn Hajar stated the differences of opinions among scholars and he said, ¡°The killing that took place (that is, in reference to the above hadith) was in retaliation and Allah Almighty says,¡®And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you¡¯(Al-Baqarah 2: 194)

            All in all, using this story as evidence in favor of the permissibility of torturing people in Islam is refuted by the fact that the Prophet (peace andblessings be upon him) applied the punishment for Hirabah on them and that he did not do so for personal vengeance.

            And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

              Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
              Narrated Anas: Some people were sick and they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Give us shelter and food. So when they became healthy they said, "The weather of Medina is not suitable for us." So he sent them to Al-Harra with some she-camels of his and said, "Drink of their milk." But when they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away his camels. The Prophet sent some people in their pursuit. Then he got their hands and feet cut and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. I saw one of them licking the earth with his tongue till he died.
              References:
              • Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589, Book: Medicine; Page 1235, Number 5685 (Arabic version)

              source: http://www.al-hadi.us/religion/index_i.html

              Another source (with original Arabic) has has some minor wording changes: http://sunnah.com/bukhari/76 (I google translated the arabic and the part of the hands and feet being chopped off remained, some of the wording changed though).

              The Bukhari is considered one of the most trusted Hadith according to wikipedia. I understand that in the West Islam is not fairly represented, but I see no reason why they would need to really lie about the fact it is respected.

              This is really the only "damning" thing I have found in my studies of the Hadith and Quran (I haven't read it entirely yet), but I was wondering as to the opinions of some of the muslims here on this verse.
              Response: I do not understand your contention. The had it says they killed a man, so the Prophet ordered for them to be killed in response. That is justice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                Response: I do not understand your contention. The had it says they killed a man, so the Prophet ordered for them to be killed in response. That is justice.
                I think its the manner of the punishment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                  Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                  In a narration from Sahih Muslim, it is expanded upon and it is explained that they did something similar to the shepherd of the Prophet :saw: when they murdered him, along with all the other stuff, they got a just and deserving punishment.
                  yes, law of equality in retribution

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                    Originally posted by Ariadne View Post
                    sure. it's here

                    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-t...es-slowly.html

                    excerpt :

                    It should be made clear that those people who came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were Muslims and they were sick. The Prophet advised them to go to the herd of camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). When they became healthy, they killed theherder of the Prophet and drove away all the camels that were allocated forsadaqah(charity).

                    When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) came to know about this, he applied the punishment for Hirabah on them. Hirabah means killing people, robbing their money or raping women by an armed group of people. The punishment for hirabah is mentioned in the Qur¡¯an. Allah says: ¡°The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that theywill be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom¡±(Al-Ma¡¯idah 5: 33)

                    As for branding their eyes, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) branded the eyes of the people of `Ukl or `Uraina with iron because they killed the herder and branded his eyes with iron.

                    Imam Ibn Hajar stated the differences of opinions among scholars and he said, ¡°The killing that took place (that is, in reference to the above hadith) was in retaliation and Allah Almighty says,¡®And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you¡¯(Al-Baqarah 2: 194)

                    All in all, using this story as evidence in favor of the permissibility of torturing people in Islam is refuted by the fact that the Prophet (peace andblessings be upon him) applied the punishment for Hirabah on them and that he did not do so for personal vengeance.
                    Please explain the bolded sentence.

                    Not to be rude, but did you read before you quoted that?
                    Last edited by Spicen; 07-08-15, 04:25 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                      Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                      Please explain the bolded sentence.

                      Not to be rude, but did you read before you quoted that?
                      yes of course. what part is unclear to you?

                      And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                        Originally posted by Ariadne View Post
                        yes of course. what part is unclear to you?
                        the sentence i bolded. it says about raping women. What on earth? I clearly dont remember any of that in hadith.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                          Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                          the sentence i bolded. it says about raping women. What on earth? I clearly dont remember any of that in hadith.
                          indeed, it's not mentioned in hadith. but the scholar explains the reason why the men were punished harshly by Rasulullah, is because they commited ''hirabah''.

                          hirabah is when an armed group spreading mischief in the land such as massacring people, plunder, armed robbery, causing terror to society, and gang rape with violent threat is included as example of comitting hiraba.

                          so the ''rape'' mentioned above is only explained as an example what hiraba crime included. of course it's not mentioned in hadith.

                          And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                            Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
                            Narrated Anas: Some people were sick and they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Give us shelter and food. So when they became healthy they said, "The weather of Medina is not suitable for us." So he sent them to Al-Harra with some she-camels of his and said, "Drink of their milk." But when they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away his camels. The Prophet sent some people in their pursuit. Then he got their hands and feet cut and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. I saw one of them licking the earth with his tongue till he died.
                            References:
                            • Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589, Book: Medicine; Page 1235, Number 5685 (Arabic version)

                            source: http://www.al-hadi.us/religion/index_i.html

                            Another source (with original Arabic) has has some minor wording changes: http://sunnah.com/bukhari/76 (I google translated the arabic and the part of the hands and feet being chopped off remained, some of the wording changed though).

                            The Bukhari is considered one of the most trusted Hadith according to wikipedia. I understand that in the West Islam is not fairly represented, but I see no reason why they would need to really lie about the fact it is respected.

                            This is really the only "damning" thing I have found in my studies of the Hadith and Quran (I haven't read it entirely yet), but I was wondering as to the opinions of some of the muslims here on this verse.
                            Salem aleykum,

                            this hadith is indeed authentic ('sahih').

                            But, in Islam, let me in sha Allah remind you that it is important to associate to the hadith you transmit, the interpretation and/or the explanations that go with.

                            So, this hadith is reported by imam Bukhari and imam Muslim in their Sahih, respectively.

                            For example in Sahih Bukhari, it's present in :
                            ' the Chapter of (the punishment for) those who wage war (against Allah and His Messenger) from the people who are disbelievers and from those who have turned renegades (converted from Islam). And the Statement of Allah ta'ala : "The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified, or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land..." (V.5:33) '

                            > You can find it here, p. 416 (Traduction of Sahih Bukhari - Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan - volume 8) : https://futureislam.files.wordpress....-5970-6860.pdf

                            As you will see, there's multiple versions of this hadith (cf. my precedent link).

                            In one of them, we have this information :

                            Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder and fought against Allah and His Messenger." or another version :
                            Abu Qilaba said, "Those were the people who committed theft and murder and reverted to disbelief after being believers (Muslims), and fought against Allah and His Messenger."

                            --> so you have the proof that it wasn't an act of torture but a legal punishment, for their crimes.

                            Third point. In a version of this hadith reported by imam Muslim, it's said that (i'm sorry it's in french) :

                            3162. D'après Anas Ibn Malîk (que Dieu l'agrée), des gens de vinrent à Médine trouver
                            l'Envoyé de Dieu et comme ils eurent très mal au ventre, l'Envoyé de Dieu (paix et
                            bénédiction de Dieu sur lui) leur dit : "Si cela vous convient, allez boire du lait et de l'urine
                            des chamelles de l'aumône". En suivant son conseil, ils se rétablirent, mais ils tuèrent les
                            bergers, revinrent sur leur foi, et s'emparèrent des chameaux de l'Envoyé de Dieu (paix et
                            bénédiction de Dieu sur lui). Aussitôt mis au courant, le Prophète (paix et bénédiction de Dieu
                            sur lui) dépêcha sur leurs traces des hommes qui les rejoignirent et les ramenèrent. Il ordonna
                            alors de leur couper les mains et les pieds, de leur crever les yeux au fer rouge et de les laisser
                            à "Al-Harra" où ils périrent (Au titre de la loi du talion, car ces bandits avaient tué les bergers de cette même façon cruelle).

                            > You can find it here, p. 177 (Traduction of Sahih Muslim - french) : http://ddata.over-blog.com/4/22/62/7...ih-Mouslim.pdf

                            So this hadith (with the explanation of imam Malik > sentence in bold : traduction in english 'In respect of the law of retaliation, because those criminals have killed the shepherd by the same cruel way.') shows that the criminal has to be punished the same way he acted. It means that those people have killed the shepherd of the Prophet (saws) by the same way they have been punished.

                            They gouged the shepherd's eyes with coal-fired steam iron and then killed him, as explained by imam Muslim.

                            So here the punishment was the application of the law of retaliation : to kill them because they killed the shepherd (it means that the family of this man didn't want the blood price) and to gouge their eyes because they make the same to this poor man. That's just the application with justice of the islamic law.

                            Indeed, in Islam you have this law : S5 V 45
                            "And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers."

                            (And concerning the cut of the feet/hands --> it's the Had of al-Muharaba, cf. V38-39; S5 : they didn't repent or reform after their crime --> punishment).

                            Wa Allahu a'lem

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Question about Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589

                              Originally posted by Ariadne View Post
                              sure. it's here

                              http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-t...es-slowly.html

                              excerpt :

                              It should be made clear that those people who came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were Muslims and they were sick. The Prophet advised them to go to the herd of camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). When they became healthy, they killed theherder of the Prophet and drove away all the camels that were allocated forsadaqah(charity).

                              When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) came to know about this, he applied the punishment for Hirabah on them. Hirabah means killing people, robbing their money or raping women by an armed group of people. The punishment for hirabah is mentioned in the Qur¡¯an. Allah says: ¡°The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that theywill be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom¡±(Al-Ma¡¯idah 5: 33)

                              As for branding their eyes, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) branded the eyes of the people of `Ukl or `Uraina with iron because they killed the herder and branded his eyes with iron.

                              Imam Ibn Hajar stated the differences of opinions among scholars and he said, ¡°The killing that took place (that is, in reference to the above hadith) was in retaliation and Allah Almighty says,¡®And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you¡¯(Al-Baqarah 2: 194)

                              All in all, using this story as evidence in favor of the permissibility of torturing people in Islam is refuted by the fact that the Prophet (peace andblessings be upon him) applied the punishment for Hirabah on them and that he did not do so for personal vengeance.
                              Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for. I have no ill will towards Muhammed for this punishment to the evildoers now that I understand the context. They deserved it. Thank you!

                              Comment

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