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  • #16
    Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

    also this website has some good articles
    www.islamreligion.com
    The sunnah is like the ark of Noah, whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.
    ~ Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him)

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

      Originally posted by Ahmed2013 View Post
      Also yes I looked into hinduism and budhism as well. Buddhism is a contradicting system, on the one hand telling people to restrict themselves from desires, yet humans are a creature of desire. In other words any religion that contradicts man's nature is not a religion from God.
      One thing that's unique about Islam vs budhism, christianity, etc... is that Allah takes into account how we are and tells us what's best of us, as the creator He would know what's best for us. A creator that understands the creation. Budhism contradicts human desires. Christianity even does. Priests/nuns not marrying? Also a contradiction since God said to us to procreate. Or how christianity views sex as dark and evil. Islam celebrates sex and encourages it, but within the bond of marriage. Allah understands how he created us. Christianity on the other hand views it as something dirty and disgusting.
      You've made a lot of erroneous assumptions there. Please can you show where Christianity views sex as dark and evil? Also, Buddhism does not contradict human desires. Although, from what little I know, Islam does pay a lot of attention to sex and basic desires. Perhaps that is a reflection of the kind of people who follow Islam?



      I

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

        Originally posted by SBL View Post
        You've made a lot of erroneous assumptions there. Please can you show where Christianity views sex as dark and evil? Also, Buddhism does not contradict human desires. Although, from what little I know, Islam does pay a lot of attention to sex and basic desires. Perhaps that is a reflection of the kind of people who follow Islam?



        I
        That is the consensus of priests throughout generations. Discussions about 'copulation' were repressed under catholic church.Monks and Nuns dont even marry. And now we hear news about homo priests daily.
        Leaving something in darkness is dangerous. Because people may assume silence regarding the topic(in this case copulation) as approval.

        I dont have enough knowledge to comment on buddhism.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

          Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
          I have been reading up on Islam and I no longer believe Christianity or Judaism to be "true". But I am not convinced that Islam is the true religion. There seems to be a lot of pagan traditions in it. I left Christianity many years ago (before even considering Islam) because I realized it was a creation of man, and I am not going to make that same mistake again by picking up another religion of man (no offense), and Islam seems to be that.

          I'm "trying" to believe in Islam, but I cannot disprove the pagan aspects, and until I do that I will not believe it. My suspicions that Islam are correct are very strong - I have studied the religions in the world enough to have eliminated everything except Islam and Buddhism (buddism is by it's nature so subjective that it is impossible to "prove").

          The problem I come across is when I am talking to a lot of Muslims, they can only use the Quran to prove that the Quran is true... Every religion says it is the true religion and that the others are false, and every religion "proves itself to be true", so therefore is it not fertile philosophical ground to use to "prove" anything. This is known in the philosophical arena as an appeal to authority logical fallacy - that a possibly biased authority source (in this example the Quran) will always stick up for itself (in this example by affirming it is true) even if it isn't.

          I want these pagan connections disproven OUTSIDE of the Quran aka outside of the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

          You do that, and there is really nothing else preventing me from saying my Shahada and converting. I "want" to, but until I know for a fact I am not falling for another trap I am not going to do it.

          answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

          http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
          Allah guides whom he wills and his biubty encompasses all things.

          If you want a sign that Allah is God, look at the sky, the trees, etc. Allah made it perfectly for us

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

            Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
            I want these pagan connections disproven OUTSIDE of the Quran aka outside of the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

            You do that, and there is really nothing else preventing me from saying my Shahada and converting. I "want" to, but until I know for a fact I am not falling for another trap I am not going to do it.


            Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
            Yes the Kaaba was built first and it was built even before the great flood of Noah but it was built again by Prophet Abraham (pbuh) on the remains of the foundation of the first kaaba. (http://quran.com/22/26 ) So the Hadith could have meant to the first construction before Abraham (pbuh) and similarly there could have been the construction of the Al Aqsa mosque itself after 40 , Note years in brackets ( just an interpretaion and not an exact quotation ) which could have meant 40 ' generations ' or even 40,000 years missing the word ' thousand' or '000' ( could be between Adam and Solomon and their ages were unlike us Adam 950 years, Idris 900 or 800 years and so on ) after it though reference is not found explicitly found and the Hadith and we do not claim Sahih was Protected 100 % as the Noble Quran is word to word ( Thats why Imam Bukhari did reject 96 % of his own collection fearing some mistake) though The Noble Quran had high lighted the Kaaba's construction by Prophet Abraham ( No doubt in it ) and the hadith could have referred to earlier construction which was done in this earth by Angels first on the Earth.

            Pagan sources you refer is in the way you think because Allah says the respect we give to the signs of Allah comes out from the piety and Allah had ordered us to repeat those incidents of Safa and Marwa or the sacrifice of the Sheep as reminders iow COMMEMERATE the Greatest Love and obedience that this Greatest Prophet Abraham (pbuh) did which never a man could do with his LONG AWAITED Most beloved ONLY son, Ishmael, at a feeble age of 90 and that too in that lonely Desert . The Black stone or the circum ambulation of the kaaba ( which was done nude before Prophet and whistling and clapping was their worship) no way proves Islam pagan but reminds of the incidents in this great Land of Mecca where once the Greatest Noblest souls ever born once walked there on this esteemed Earth to which its obligatory for every affordable Muslim to do once in his life. so do not mix Paganism with true Respect, love & piety and common sense with pagan worshiping of idols .
            A hadith about the Black stone shows the intention of the companions regarding the Black stone was nothing more than doing the sunnah of Prophet :saw:

            Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 2912
            Salim narrated on the authority of his father (Allah be pleased with him) that 'Umar b. al-Khattib (Allah be pleased with him) kissed (the Black Stone) and then said: By Allah, I know that you are a stone and if I were not to see Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) kissing you, I would not have kissed you. Harun said in his narration: A hadith like this has been transmitted to me by Zaid b. Aslam on the authority of his father Aslam.



            The Book of Pilgrimage (Kitab Al-Hajj)
            Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 2918

            Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) circumambulated the House on the back of his riding camel on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage and touched the Stone with his stick so that the people should see him, and he should be conspicuous, and they should be able to ask him (questions pertaining to religion) as the people had crowded round him.



            The Book of Pilgrimage (Kitab Al-Hajj)
            Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 2917
            Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) circumambulated the House on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage on the back of his camel and touched the Corner (of Black Stone) with a stick
            .




            The Book of Pilgrimage (Kitab Al-Hajj)
            Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 2914


            Abdullah b. Sarjis reported: I saw the bald one, i. e. 'Umar b. Khattib (Allah be pleased with him). kissing the Stone and saying: By Allah. I am kissing with full consciousness of the fact that you are a stone and that you can neither do any harm nor good; and if I had not seen Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) kissing you. I would not have kissed you. The rest of the hadith is the same.
            Last edited by talibilm09; 06-09-15, 12:39 AM.
            My sect - No Sect

            My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

            Just a Muslim

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

              Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
              I have been reading up on Islam and I no longer believe Christianity or Judaism to be "true". But I am not convinced that Islam is the true religion. There seems to be a lot of pagan traditions in it. I left Christianity many years ago (before even considering Islam) because I realized it was a creation of man, and I am not going to make that same mistake again by picking up another religion of man (no offense), and Islam seems to be that.

              I'm "trying" to believe in Islam, but I cannot disprove the pagan aspects, and until I do that I will not believe it. My suspicions that Islam are correct are very strong - I have studied the religions in the world enough to have eliminated everything except Islam and Buddhism (buddism is by it's nature so subjective that it is impossible to "prove").

              The problem I come across is when I am talking to a lot of Muslims, they can only use the Quran to prove that the Quran is true... Every religion says it is the true religion and that the others are false, and every religion "proves itself to be true", so therefore is it not fertile philosophical ground to use to "prove" anything. This is known in the philosophical arena as an appeal to authority logical fallacy - that a possibly biased authority source (in this example the Quran) will always stick up for itself (in this example by affirming it is true) even if it isn't.

              I want these pagan connections disproven OUTSIDE of the Quran aka outside of the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

              You do that, and there is really nothing else preventing me from saying my Shahada and converting. I "want" to, but until I know for a fact I am not falling for another trap I am not going to do it.

              answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

              http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
              You have no points. You say you have been reading on Islam? Then my reply is please read it completely.
              If you say you have read completely and say these same things then I will say you are a Liar or a disbeliever.

              Islam is proven in every form to me and Allah SWT shows it to all. Now its our wish if we accept Allah's guidance or not.

              Few days back there was a troll or dont know who that was, He said that no one in this website has proven him that this Islam is the truth and Christian is false and blah blah..

              After my long message there was no reply from that person. Why? It seemed he didn't come here to learn.

              Just ask and get it. What proof do you want? Say any religion or even no religion or Islam. I will give the proof to you. then we shall talk
              Earth is not a place to make life perfect. So please never complain.

              Perfect and Happy life can only be in Paradise. Have Patience. :banan:

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

                Originally posted by john_repents View Post
                You have no points. You say you have been reading on Islam? Then my reply is please read it completely.
                If you say you have read completely and say these same things then I will say you are a Liar or a disbeliever.

                Islam is proven in every form to me and Allah SWT shows it to all. Now its our wish if we accept Allah's guidance or not.

                Few days back there was a troll or dont know who that was, He said that no one in this website has proven him that this Islam is the truth and Christian is false and blah blah..

                After my long message there was no reply from that person. Why? It seemed he didn't come here to learn.

                Just ask and get it. What proof do you want? Say any religion or even no religion or Islam. I will give the proof to you. then we shall talk
                I converted brother. This is an old post. =)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

                  Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
                  I converted brother. This is an old post. =)

                  Whoaaaaattt??? MaashAllah this is soo awesome. Welcome to Islam!
                  "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                  "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SBL View Post
                    Originally posted by Ahmed2013 View Post
                    Also yes I looked into hinduism and budhism as well. Buddhism is a contradicting system, on the one hand telling people to restrict themselves from desires, yet humans are a creature of desire. In other words any religion that contradicts man's nature is not a religion from God.
                    One thing that's unique about Islam vs budhism, christianity, etc... is that Allah takes into account how we are and tells us what's best of us, as the creator He would know what's best for us. A creator that understands the creation. Budhism contradicts human desires. Christianity even does. Priests/nuns not marrying? Also a contradiction since God said to us to procreate. Or how christianity views sex as dark and evil. Islam celebrates sex and encourages it, but within the bond of marriage. Allah understands how he created us. Christianity on the other hand views it as something dirty and disgusting.
                    You've made a lot of erroneous assumptions there. Please can you show where Christianity views sex as dark and evil? Also, Buddhism does not contradict human desires. Although, from what little I know, Islam does pay a lot of attention to sex and basic desires. Perhaps that is a reflection of the kind of people who follow Islam?



                    I
                    You need proof of this? Christians are ignorant they worship Allah in ignorance.

                    They pray to Allah then end the prayer with Jesus name after catching the holy ghost which is actually a ritual that summons jinn they speak in tongues pass out put their hand on your head and tell you things about yourself that they shouldn't know. This is a so called Christian nation meaning majority of inhabitants are Christian and majority of the west is filled with filth widespread immorality so much zina and pork is in everything almost every food even hygiene products. There are every kind of khamr.

                    Christians will tell you that buddism is wrong that Greek mythology is wrong when in fact they have similar beliefs. They all commit shirk. Greek mythology the gods have children they have sex with creation procreate with the creation contribute sons to them. aouthubillah.

                    Jesus made clear his message in the Bible. Worship God alone. He said that he came as a messenger a Warner to the people not once did he say I am the son of God he never said he was God he never said he came to die for our sins.

                    The people have created these things.
                    The Christians contradict themselves December is supposed to be when Jesus was born yet where did Santa clause and his reindeer and elves oh yea frosty the snowman come in? What about Easter you say this is when Jesus came back to life and ascended to heaven yet Easter you have eggs and ducks? This is in fact paganism.

                    Christians have distorted the the true message of Jesus.
                    And the only way they can come back to the true teachings of Jesus and what Jesus came with is to come to Islam.
                    God has no sons. Jesus was a prophet. And Allah is one. You must believe in the oneness of God.

                    Sex is seen as something bad In christian bssed faiths the nuns and monks practice abstinence they believe this will get them closer to God. So what does that say about everyone else who has Sex?are they far from God? What if everyone thought like this? Oh if I have Sex whether in marriage or outside I'm not gonna be close to God. There would be no inhabitants on earth if this we're true. this belief contradicts that natural fitrah of human beings.
                    Last edited by Salaf us salih; 03-09-15, 04:30 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

                      Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
                      I converted brother. This is an old post. =)
                      Alhumdulilah.. Will pray for you bro
                      Earth is not a place to make life perfect. So please never complain.

                      Perfect and Happy life can only be in Paradise. Have Patience. :banan:

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

                        Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
                        I have been reading up on Islam and I no longer believe Christianity or Judaism to be "true". But I am not convinced that Islam is the true religion. There seems to be a lot of pagan traditions in it. I left Christianity many years ago (before even considering Islam) because I realized it was a creation of man, and I am not going to make that same mistake again by picking up another religion of man (no offense), and Islam seems to be that.

                        I'm "trying" to believe in Islam, but I cannot disprove the pagan aspects, and until I do that I will not believe it. My suspicions that Islam are correct are very strong - I have studied the religions in the world enough to have eliminated everything except Islam and Buddhism (buddism is by it's nature so subjective that it is impossible to "prove").

                        The problem I come across is when I am talking to a lot of Muslims, they can only use the Quran to prove that the Quran is true... Every religion says it is the true religion and that the others are false, and every religion "proves itself to be true", so therefore is it not fertile philosophical ground to use to "prove" anything. This is known in the philosophical arena as an appeal to authority logical fallacy - that a possibly biased authority source (in this example the Quran) will always stick up for itself (in this example by affirming it is true) even if it isn't.

                        I want these pagan connections disproven OUTSIDE of the Quran aka outside of the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

                        You do that, and there is really nothing else preventing me from saying my Shahada and converting. I "want" to, but until I know for a fact I am not falling for another trap I am not going to do it.

                        answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

                        http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
                        There is many other sources that will prove you that Islam is the correct path. I'm sure you'll find it. Tell me what is exacty your questions and I'll try to help you. Here are some interesting stuff to consider:

                        Did you know that our prophet Mohammad was mentioned by name in the old testament ... read Solomon 5:16 in its original Hebrew and you'll see prophet Soloman is telling the girls about his beloved man who is yet to come .... Mohamad'm. In English, they translated Mohammad to "altogether lovely" to deceive people, but it is still there in the original Hebrew

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow very amazing thread ... I believe Islam is true because when I sin my head hurts the next day but if I don't sin I feel so good and free of problems.. I never really dived in the way you did because a lot of belief is Islam is based off of believing in the unseen such as prophets, books, Angels, paradise, etc..

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

                            Originally posted by kittymuslimah View Post
                            Ok lol.
                            I know it's not a book of science, I believe in it because it makes sense and answers my questions and doubts.
                            Didn't exactly post something that helpful.
                            Quran is a book of signs .. but also not short of science indication. Allah have the knowledge but Allah can't explain in details as it will need thousands of pages. This is the beauty of signs. Like the verse that says "A day at your lord is equal to 1000 year". It has no meaning until Einstein changed the law of physics in 20th century with his famous theory. Alhumolliah for guiding me to Islam

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Finish me off, prove Islam is true

                              Originally posted by learnedseeker View Post
                              I have been reading up on Islam and I no longer believe Christianity or Judaism to be "true". But I am not convinced that Islam is the true religion. There seems to be a lot of pagan traditions in it. I left Christianity many years ago (before even considering Islam) because I realized it was a creation of man, and I am not going to make that same mistake again by picking up another religion of man (no offense), and Islam seems to be that.

                              I'm "trying" to believe in Islam, but I cannot disprove the pagan aspects, and until I do that I will not believe it. My suspicions that Islam are correct are very strong - I have studied the religions in the world enough to have eliminated everything except Islam and Buddhism (buddism is by it's nature so subjective that it is impossible to "prove").

                              The problem I come across is when I am talking to a lot of Muslims, they can only use the Quran to prove that the Quran is true... Every religion says it is the true religion and that the others are false, and every religion "proves itself to be true", so therefore is it not fertile philosophical ground to use to "prove" anything. This is known in the philosophical arena as an appeal to authority logical fallacy - that a possibly biased authority source (in this example the Quran) will always stick up for itself (in this example by affirming it is true) even if it isn't.

                              I want these pagan connections disproven OUTSIDE of the Quran aka outside of the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

                              You do that, and there is really nothing else preventing me from saying my Shahada and converting. I "want" to, but until I know for a fact I am not falling for another trap I am not going to do it.

                              answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

                              http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
                              Paying attention to this point that you are actually trying to do research about religions is so valuable .
                              actually there are many people who don't even care about these subjects ...
                              well as a reply to your question I can say based on some reasons i'll tell you about Islam can't be a religion made by man and actually Jewish and christianity are also the same ... although people have tried to change the books the way they have always wanted but we can still
                              find true things in the bible ...

                              for the reason you said you have been a christian before i will use some verses of the holy bible to prove Islam ...
                              as we know mohammad (S) is the prophet of islam ... and christians and jews don't believe in him as a prophet .
                              but based on the holy quran people have known about Mohammad as a prophet years before he was born and Quran says that in bible we can find the name of the prophet of islam although bible belongs to 2000 years ago and Mohammad has been sent to us 1400 years ago ...
                              ok so if we find thw name of mohammad in bible it can prove a miracle ... it can prove that god has sent us a message in bible .
                              and because the christians themselves don't believe in mohammad it can't be something they have put in the book themselves ok let's do some bible study together :

                              While studying the holy Quran we see many verses mentioning this point that the name of the prophet Mohammad has been mentioned in the holy bible which means jews and christians knew prophet Mohammad long before he was born. This point made us interested to check The Holy Bible for such information and share it with you this can be a kind of proof for the ones who don’t believe in the prophet of Islam :)

                              Here we start with some verses of The Holy Quran:

                              The Holy Quran [6:20] :

                              ُالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْرِفُونَهُ كَمَا يَعْرِفُونَ أَبْنَاءهُمُ الَّذِينَ خَسِرُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ فَهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ

                              Those to whom We have given the Book [Jews and Christians] recognize him [Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) ] as they recognize their own children; but those who have lost their souls do not believe.

                              The Holy Quran [48:29] :

                              مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاء عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاء بَيْنَهُمْ (…) ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ

                              Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Those with him are stern against the disbelievers, yet compassionate amongst themselves (…) Such is their description in the Torah, and their description in the Gospel

                              these verses mean we can still find these signs in the Holy Bible …

                              ok there is no doubt about the covenant between God and Abraham and his children … The Holy Quran and The holy Gospel and the Holy torah all confirm this here are some examples from the holy Bible :

                              1- Genesis [12: 2,3]

                              {12:2} And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: {12:3} And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

                              2-Genesis [16:1-8]

                              {16:1} Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name [was] Hagar. {16:2} And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. {16:3} And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. {16:4} And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes. {16:5} And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong [be]upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. {16:6} But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid [is]in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt
                              hardly with her, she fled from her face. {16:7} And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. {16:8} And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

                              3-Genesis [17: 4,5 ]

                              In this verse God repeats the covenant and it is after Ishmael is born and before Isaac is born.(the time is important)

                              {17:4} As for me, behold, my covenant [is]with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. {17:5} Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

                              (The H will be given to Abram after Ishmael is born so the great nation is gonna be given to Abraham from his first son Ishmael –Note: H is the fifth letter in Hebrew and by the birth of Ishmael god gave the 5 to Abram [Mohammad – Ali – Fatima – Hasan – Hosein ] (pbut) all children of Ishmael – will talk about this subject in other posts soon )

                              4-Genesis [21:1-21]

                              {21:1} And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken. {21:2} For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. {21:3} And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac. {21:4} And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. {21:5} And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. {21:6} And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, [so that] all that hear will laugh with me. {21:7} And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born [him]a son in his old age. {21:8} And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the [same]day that Isaac was weaned. {21:9} And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. {21:10} Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even]with Isaac. {21:11} And the thing was very grievous in Abraham’s sight because of his son. {21:12} And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. {21:13} And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is]thy seed. {21:14} And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it]unto Hagar, putting [it]on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-sheba. {21:15} And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. {21:16} And she went, and sat her down over against [him]a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against [him,] and lift up her voice, and wept. {21:17} And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he [is. ]{21:18} Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. {21:19} And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. {21:20} And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. {21:21} And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran

                              based on this verse Ishmael is taken to Paran after Isaac is born…wait a second

                              let’s go back a little:

                              Genesis {16:6} But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid [is]in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt
                              hardly with her, she fled from her face. {16:7} And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur…

                              we see in here Hajar is sent to the Wilderness after Ishmael is born and these two verses don’t match each other … when Isaac was born Abraham was 100 years old which means Ishmael was around 13 because he was born while Abraham was 87 this means that Abraham’s test was done that time. here for showing Isaac’s position higher that Ishmael they have changed some parts of the verse…

                              But As quran says Ishmael and Hajar are sent to that wilderness after Ishmael is born.

                              And another thing …

                              Based on Hebrew traditions most of the Inheritance and blessing will be given to the first child and here is the proof from The Holy Bible :

                              Deuteronomy [21:15-17]

                              {21:15} If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both]the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: {21:16} Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that]which he hath, [that]he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed]the firstborn: {21:17} But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for]the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his.

                              For fixing this part and raising the position of Isaac , Jews said that the mother should be special and gave the generation to the mother and we still see this among them . they did this to lower Ishmael and Hajar’s position.

                              But based on bible Ishmael was the first children of Abraham so based on bible again he will have a double portion.

                              Was Isaac the one who Abraham sacrificed for god or Ishmael?!

                              1- we see this point that the H was given to Abraham after Ishmael was born (Genesis [17: 4,5 ])

                              2 –Genesis [22:1-18]

                              {22:1} And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said,Behold, [here]I [am. ]{22:2} And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son]Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. {22:3} And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. {22:4} Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. {22:5} And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you, {22:6} And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid [it]upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. {22:7} And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here [am]I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where [is]the lamb for a burnt offering? {22:8} And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. {22:9} And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. {22:10} And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. {22:11} And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am]I. {22:12} And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son]from me. {22:13} And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him]a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. {22:14} And Abraham called the name of
                              that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said [to]this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. {22:15} And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, {22:16} And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son:
                              ]{22:17} That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is]upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; {22:18} And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

                              ok based on what we read Isaac was the one Abraham sacrificed for god.. but let’s read it again .. we see that god calls Isaac the only son of Abraham isn’t that weird?! because we just saw this point in the bible that Ishmael was older than Isaac and Isaac couldn’t be Abraham’s only son… Jews again -,- … unfortunately they have changed the name of Ishmael to Isaac here ..and if we accept that Isaac was the only son because Ishmael was born of a maid then we should say 1/4 of the jews are not jews because we know that 4 children of Jacob out of 12 were born of maids (Dan,Naphtali , Gad, Asher) …so children of all these are children of maids… and also a prophet like Samson who is Hebrew and a child of Dan

                              we see we can even have prophets from the ones who are born from maids

                              but what will happen if they let Ishmael be the sacrificed one?!!

                              lot’s of things … because jews knew it that the covenant was with the sacrificed one…

                              and another thing is it was not a test for sacrificing children… because there were many many people who sacrificed their children for god .. the test was losing the only children he had after 87 years … imagine it … you don’t have any any children until you are 87 years old then god asks you to take him away in a wilderness and leave him there in the middle of nowhere with no water and food .. then after 13 years you will have the chance to see your only son … and god asks you to slay him… this is the exam… and this is the story we read in quran.

                              The Holy Quran [2: 124, 125]

                              وَإِذِ ابْتَلَی إِبْرَاهِیمَ رَبُّهُ بِکَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّی جَاعِلُکَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّیَّتِی قَالَ لاَ یَنَالُ عَهْدِی الظَّالِمِینَ

                              124. And when his Lord tested Abraham with certain words, and he fulfilled them. He said, “I am making you a leader of humanity.” He said, “And my descendants?” He said, “My pledge does not include the wrongdoers.”

                              وَإِذْ جَعَلْنَا الْبَیْتَ مَثَابَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَأَمْناً وَاتَّخِذُواْ مِن مَّقَامِ إِبْرَاهِیمَ مُصَلًّی وَعَهِدْنَا إِلَی إِبْرَاهِیمَ وَإِسْمَاعِیلَ أَن طَهِّرَا بَیْتِیَ لِلطَّائِفِینَ وَالْعَاکِفِینَ وَالرُّکَّعِ السُّجُودِ

                              125. And We made the House a focal point for the people, and a sanctuary. Use the shrine of Abraham as a place of prayer. And We commissioned Abraham and Ishmael, “Sanctify My House for those who circle around it, and those who seclude themselves in it, and those who kneel and prostrate.”

                              and the point we wanna talk about is being an Imam … you know that Abraham was a prophet who brought people a new religion and he survived the fire they put him in.but in the last years of his life after passing such a hard exam this is what god told him :

                              قَالَ إِنِّی جَاعِلُکَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا

                              He said, “I am making you a leader of humanity(Imam).”

                              we get this point the an Imam has a higher position than a prophet who brings a religion and Abraham became an Imam while he was 100 years old after passing such a hard exam.

                              and then he said :مِن ذُرِّیَّتِی (“And my descendants?”)

                              so the covenant will be with the children of the sacrificed one… Ishmael.

                              Pay attention that we are not saying there was no covenant with the children of Isaac .. we know the covenant was with the children Isaac first but they didn’t keep the covenant …

                              Genesis [17:17-21]

                              {17:17}Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall [a child]be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? {17:18} And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! {17:19} And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and]with his seed after him. {17:20} And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. {17:21} But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

                              this verse has many messages inside .. first of all it tells us that god made his covenant with the children of Isaac first but he also said he will make Ishmael a great nation and this is what he has already done … and another point we see here is that 12 princess that god talked about which really match the ideology of shia and 12 Imams … Here is what god has told us and he has done it .. he sent us his last prophet Mohammad (pbuh) who is the children of Ishmael and the 12 imams and a great nation which means muslims … but even this much information was not enough and we checked the hebrew version of the bible and here is what have:

                              mohammad 1

                              as you see the name of prophet is obvious there and when we put it in the google translator it gives us the name BMadMad and even in the Jamatria of jews it has the same number the name Mohammad has 92

                              but still if it is not enough we will have more obvious examples in the end …

                              mohammad 2

                              Moses and the Prophet of Islam

                              Deuteronomy [18: 17,18 ]

                              {18:17} And the LORD said unto me,They have well [spoken that]which they have spoken.
                              {18:18} I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his
                              mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

                              1-A prophet among their brothers

                              2-The similarities between that prophet and moses. and the point that he says what god tells him.

                              ok .. Moses was Lavi .. maybe he meant someone from another brother Judah for example.(Juses was a children of Judah ) if it was that way god wouldn’t say their brothers .. he would say your brothers .

                              Moses was not talking just for Lavi tribe .. he was talking for all 12 tribes of Jewish.so why does he say their brothers?!!

                              so he is talking about some people who are not there .

                              Children of Ishmael. because Isaac and Ishmael are brothers ..

                              Moses and Prophet Mohammad have many similarities … they both brought a new religion ,both immigrated and they had same exams : economical exams (Sheb abiTalib- شعب الابی طالب) and Fighting for god .they both had Arons (Aron was the brother of Moses who became prophet after him and Prophet mohammad says Imam ali is like Aron for him and as shia believes he will be the next khalifa of muslims and 12 imams of shia are children of imam ali as the next prophets of Jewish are children of Aron) and …

                              Deuteronomy [33: 2 ]

                              {33:2} And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went]a fiery law for them

                              well Sinai is where Moses came and Seir is where Jesus came then it says God Shined from Paran (mecca) which means Prophet mohammad (pbuh)

                              That’s where God tells us in Quran :

                              The Holy Quran [9:32]

                              يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِؤُواْ نُورَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلاَّ أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ

                              32. They want to extinguish God’s light with their mouths, but God refuses except to complete His light, even though the disbelievers dislike it.

                              and that 10000 angels strangely matches the story of Conquest of Mecca .

                              Based on Genesis [21:21] Paran is where Ishmael went and here it says Paran is where he shined …Isn’t that clear enough?!!!

                              Psalm [84:3-5]

                              {84:3} Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, [even]thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God.

                              {84:4} Blessed [are]they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah.

                              {84:5} Blessed [is]the man whose strength [is]in thee; in whose heart [are]the ways [of them.]

                              {84:6} [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.

                              it mentions that there will be people who travel to the valley of Baca and there is a pool …

                              The Holy Quran [3:95-98]

                              قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

                              95-Say, “God has spoken the truth, so follow the religion of Abraham the Monotheist; he was not a Pagan.”

                              إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

                              96-The first house established for mankind is the one at Baca; blessed, and guidance for all people.

                              نمای-زیبا-از-کعبه



                              97-فِيهِ آيَاتٌ بَيِّـنَاتٌ مَّقَامُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمَن دَخَلَهُ كَانَ آمِنًا وَلِلّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلاً وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ الله غَنِيٌّ عَنِ الْعَالَمِينَ

                              In it are evident signs; the Station of Abraham. Whoever enters it attains security. Pilgrimage to the House is a duty to God for all who can make the journey. But as for those who refuse-God is Independent of the worlds.

                              98- قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ شَهِيدٌ عَلَى مَا تَعْمَلُونَ

                              Say, “O People of the Scripture(Jews and Christians), why do you reject the Revelations of God, when God witnesses what you do?“

                              Habakuk [3:3]

                              {3:3} God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens,and the earth was full of his praise.

                              Note:Teman is in the north of Madinah – close to mecca

                              Paran is mecca as we have said before

                              Isiah [21:11-17]

                              {21:11} The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night? {21:12} The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye: return, come. {21:13} The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companies of Dedanim. {21:14} The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled. {21:15} For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war. {21:16} For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail: {21:17} And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the LORD God of Israel hath spoken [it.]

                              It tells us there will be a war in Tema (near mecca – Madina) between arabs and the pagan children of Kedar (Kedar is one of the children of Ishmael based on the holy bible ) will get defeated by the good children of kedar …well this is telling us about the battles of Prophet Mohammad .. It can’t be more clear than this really!!!!

                              Prophet Mohammad was fighting his own tribe(Qoraish) and they are all children of Ishmael (Abu lahab , Abu jahl,Abu Sofian ) and here it talks about Teman and it says among Arabs .. it can’t really be talking about the prophet of Islam clearer than this ��

                              John [16:5-7]

                              {16:5} But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? {16:6} But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. {16:7} Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. {16:8}And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

                              here the question is who is that comforter ?!

                              some say he is the Holy Spirit but here we have some reasons to prove he is not:

                              1-Here Jesus is talking about someone that his presence is more useful that jesus .. is The holy spirit that important for christians that his presence is better than juses ?!

                              2-he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment .. the question is can Holy spirit really do something that huge?! .. does he have the power for doing such an action at all?!

                              3- It can’t be the holy spirit because his coming depends on jesus to leave although Holy spirit has been among people even before jesus comes.

                              but let’s see what quran says about this:

                              The Holy Quran [61:6]

                              وَإِذْ قَالَ عِیسَی ابْنُ مَرْیَمَ یَا بَنِی إِسْرَائِیلَ إِنِّی رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَیْکُم مُّصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَیْنَ یَدَیَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ یَأْتِی مِن بَعْدِی اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ فَلَمَّا جَاءهُم بِالْبَیِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَذَا سِحْرٌ مُّبِینٌ

                              And when Jesus son of Mary said, “O Children of Israel, I am God’s Messenger to you, confirming what preceded me of the Torah, and announcing good news of a messenger who will come after me, whose name is Ahmad.” But when he showed them the miracles, they said, “This is obvious sorcery.”

                              as we see the one jesus is talking about is Ahmad (Mohammad) the prophet of Islam (pbuh)

                              John [1:19-25]

                              {1:19} And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? {1:20} And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. {1:21} And they asked him,What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. {1:22} Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? {1:23} He said, I [am]the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias {1:24} And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. {1:25} And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias,neither that prophet?

                              as you see jews were waiting for 2 prophets , Jesus and Mohammad (pbut) … which means they knew The prophet of Islam and they were waiting for him

                              The Holy Quran [6:20] :

                              ُالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْرِفُونَهُ كَمَا يَعْرِفُونَ أَبْنَاءهُمُ الَّذِينَ خَسِرُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ فَهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ

                              Those to whom We have given the Book [Jews and Christians] recognize him [Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) ] as they recognize their own children; but those who have lost their souls do not believe.

                              John [7:37-41]

                              {7:37} In the last day, that great [day]of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. {7:38} He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. {7:39} (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive:
                              for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given;] because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) {7:40} Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. {7:41} Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

                              here is another example … it is when people thought Jesus is the prophet of islam …

                              well I wanna ask something from the christians who don’t wanna accept Mohammad (pbuh) now … What is the difference between you and the jews who made jesus cry ?! .. that jews didn’t accept Jesus christ although they knew him … and now you don’t wanna accept Mohammad (pbuh) … Just imagine it what is you are one of the ones who made jesus cry that day?!!

                              After checking that verses in the bible we thought that there must still be a sign of the prophet’s name in the bible… so we started searching and we finally found wha we wanted … The name of Prophet mohammad in the bible right now !!

                              ok here are the verses of bible you can check:

                              Song of Songs [5:16]

                              {5:16} His mouth [is] most sweet: yea, he [is]altogether lovely. This [is]my beloved, and this [is]my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem

                              ok .. who do you think prophet solomon is talking about?!

                              well let’s check the Hebrew version .. there might be some untranslated names… o.0

                              mohammad 3

                              Mahamad … well let’s check other verses we might find more:D

                              Ezekiel [24:25]

                              {24:25} Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be]in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the desire of their eyes, and that whereupon they set their minds, their sons and their daughters,

                              And the Hebrew version:

                              mohammad 4

                              Lamentations [2:4]

                              {2:4} He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were]pleasant to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire. {2:5} The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation

                              mohammad 5

                              well something interesting you need to know is there is not just 1 Mohammad .. The 12th Imam’s name Is Mohammad as well who is still alive just the way jesus is … and he will come one day with jesus … these verses most match the 12th Imam as well… we will have a post about him soon

                              Hosea [9:16]

                              MOHAMMAD 6

                              Well after these many evidences I think you will need to think about what you believe in … and you should understand why muslims read quran in Arabic … one reason is If we read quran in Arabic they can never hide names like this from us … all these pictures i put here are available in the internet and accessible for any of you so try to accept that the book you know as the Holy Bible has been in the hands of some people who don’t care about anything but ruling people .. and this is what quran says about them :

                              The holy Quran [4:46]

                              مِنَ الَّذِينَ هادُوا يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَنْ مَواضِعِهِ وَ يَقُولُونَ سَمِعْنا وَ عَصَيْنا

                              Among the Jews are some who take words out of context, and say, “We hear and we disobey”

                              if you wanna see the text with pictures check the following webpage :

                              http://masafonline.com/the-light-of-paran/

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