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  • #76
    Re: Question about the apostasy law

    Originally posted by abufulaans View Post
    Response:As I explained before the apostate who leaves Islam has declared war on Islam by leaving it after being a follower of the religion of Truth, if the one who commits treason deserves death then what about the one who leaves the Religion of Allah after willingly accepting it as the truth? Or is religion not important to you?

    The Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم said: ''Whoever changes his religion, Kill him''
    This is clearly referring to a Muslim who becomes an apostate because when he enters Islam the Islamic Rules apply to him,

    Also do remember the religion was completed over 23 years, the law of apostasy came closer to the end and is mentioned clearly in the above Hadith, if you mention something before this then it holds no weight just as if you mention a hadith where women did not observe Hijab as the Hijab obligation too was revealed later in madinah, or a hadith where the companions RA held or drank alcohol (without sin)
    Response: An apostate who leaves but does not fight is not declaring war. he is peaceful, thus should not be harmed. As the Qur'an is clear not to fight those who incline to peace (8:61).

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Question about the apostasy law

      Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
      Response: Verse 8: 61 says do not fight those who incline to peace. Verse 4:91 says not to kill the apostates who enter into treaty and have not fought you.

      So the Qur'an makes it clear not to fight and kill one who does not fight you. Thus the hadith according to context means that the Jew conspired to war. The evidence is clear, as it is backed by the Qur'an itself.

      Yet when we apply the principles of taqleed as evidence as you do, you claim the hadith allows killing someone that does not fight anyone. Quote from the hadith where is says it is okay to kill a peaceful person? You cannot.
      So my position that you cannot kill a peaceful person was backed by a verse saying the same thing. Whereas your claim that you CAN kill a peaceful person is backed by....nothing. Thus your opinion is rejected.
      Lol that hadith above is clear
      An apostate is NOT INNOCENT and NOT PEACEFUL
      He has commited a crime and deserves to face the sword if he does not repent
      ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Question about the apostasy law

        Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
        Response: An apostate who leaves but does not fight is not declaring war. he is peaceful, thus should not be harmed. As the Qur'an is clear not to fight those who incline to peace (8:61).
        When an apostate leaves the Religion of Truth his blood is no more forbidden as he has commited a crime that deserves the death penalty
        ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Question about the apostasy law

          Originally posted by abufulaans View Post
          There was no punishment for apostasy in the early stages, just like there was no Hijab, no zakah, Alcohol was not Haram,
          I brought you a hadith which the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم said later, saying to kill whoever leaves his religion and you reject it following your desires
          Response: There is no punishment period. Except in the case of an apostate who conspires to attack or attacks a Muslims. The hadith that says kill those who change their religion refers only to those who conspire to or attack Muslims, as verse 8:61 is clear not to fight those who incline to peace and verse 2:256 says there is no compulsion in religion. And no, compulsion does not just refer to forcing someone to enter Islam. It refers to forcing someone to remain a Muslim as well.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Question about the apostasy law

            Originally posted by abufulaans View Post
            Lol that hadith above is clear
            An apostate is NOT INNOCENT and NOT PEACEFUL
            He has commited a crime and deserves to face the sword if he does not repent
            Response: The apostate that does not fight you is peaceful. So the hadith is clear that there is no punishment.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Question about the apostasy law

              Originally posted by abufulaans View Post
              When an apostate leaves the Religion of Truth his blood is no more forbidden as he has commited a crime that deserves the death penalty
              Response: An apostate is to be treated with respect and with kindness, unless they conspire to or attack the Muslims.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Question about the apostasy law

                The matter is clear, as any reasonable person can see. So I will let you continue as you wish, as your words have no effect on anything. But for the benefit of those who wish to follow the straight path:

                When you read all of the Qur'an and Sunnah within context, you would know that the verse in the Qur'an which states "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) completely eradicates any rationality that the hadiths means to kill someone because they left Islam. Verses 88-93 of chapter 4, particularly 91, prohibits killing anyone, the hypocrites and apostates, unless it is in self-defense from an attack by them. Lastly, even in the very same volume of Bukhari, in volume 9 book 89, numbers 316 and 318 show that when a person came to the Muhammad and wanted to leave Islam and asked his permission, Muhammad (saw)........did nothing. And when the man walked away, Muhammad (saw).......did nothing. With all of this context, it is clear that when concerning the killing of apostate, it was ordered to do so and done so in response to apostates who waged war or conspired in war with the Muslims. Not just for simply leaving Islam.

                And Allah knows best.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Question about the apostasy law

                  Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                  Response: There is no punishment period. Except in the case of an apostate who conspires to attack or attacks a Muslims. The hadith that says kill those who change their religion refers only to those who conspire to or attack Muslims, as verse 8:61 is clear not to fight those who incline to peace and verse 2:256 says there is no compulsion in religion. And no, compulsion does not just refer to forcing someone to enter Islam. It refers to forcing someone to remain a Muslim as well.
                  As I explained before the apostate who leaves Islam has declared war on Islam by leaving it after being a follower of the religion of Truth, if the one who commits treason deserves death then what about the one who leaves the Religion of Allah after willingly accepting it as the truth? Or is religion not important to you?

                  The Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم said: ''Whoever changes his religion, Kill him''
                  This is clearly referring to a Muslim who becomes an apostate because when he enters Islam the Islamic Rules apply to him,

                  Also do remember the religion was completed over 23 years, the law of apostasy came closer to the end and is mentioned clearly in the above Hadith, if you mention something before this then it holds no weight just as if you mention a hadith where women did not observe Hijab as the Hijab obligation too was revealed later in madinah, or a hadith where the companions RA held or drank alcohol (without sin)

                  Until you actually refute what I say instead of repeating like a parrot I'm going to keep posting this
                  ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Question about the apostasy law

                    Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                    Response: The apostate that does not fight you is peaceful. So the hadith is clear that there is no punishment.
                    An apostate is not peaceful if he has rejected the truth after accepting it willingly

                    Simple question
                    Waging war against Islam or waging war against a person?
                    And bring proof
                    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Question about the apostasy law

                      The matter is clear, as any reasonable person can see. So I will let you continue as you wish, as your words have no effect on anything. But for the benefit of those who wish to follow the straight path:

                      When you read all of the Qur'an and Sunnah within context, you would know that the verse in the Qur'an which states "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) completely eradicates any rationality that the hadiths means to kill someone because they left Islam. Verses 88-93 of chapter 4, particularly 91, prohibits killing anyone, the hypocrites and apostates, unless it is in self-defense from an attack by them. Verse 8:61 forbids fighting anyone who inclines to peace. Lastly, even in the very same volume of Bukhari, in volume 9 book 89, numbers 316 and 318 show that when a person came to the Muhammad and wanted to leave Islam and asked his permission, Muhammad (saw)........did nothing. And when the man walked away, Muhammad (saw).......did nothing. With all of this context, it is clear that when concerning the killing of apostate, it was ordered to do so and done so in response to apostates who waged war or conspired in war with the Muslims. Not just for simply leaving Islam.

                      And Allah knows best.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Question about the apostasy law

                        Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                        The matter is clear, as any reasonable person can see. So I will let you continue as you wish, as your words have no effect on anything. But for the benefit of those who wish to follow the straight path:

                        When you read all of the Qur'an and Sunnah within context, you would know that the verse in the Qur'an which states "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) completely eradicates any rationality that the hadiths means to kill someone because they left Islam. Verses 88-93 of chapter 4, particularly 91, prohibits killing anyone, the hypocrites and apostates, unless it is in self-defense from an attack by them. Lastly, even in the very same volume of Bukhari, in volume 9 book 89, numbers 316 and 318 show that when a person came to the Muhammad and wanted to leave Islam and asked his permission, Muhammad (saw)........did nothing. And when the man walked away, Muhammad (saw).......did nothing. With all of this context, it is clear that when concerning the killing of apostate, it was ordered to do so and done so in response to apostates who waged war or conspired in war with the Muslims. Not just for simply leaving Islam.

                        And Allah knows best.
                        As I explained before the apostate who leaves Islam has declared war on Islam by leaving it after being a follower of the religion of Truth, if the one who commits treason deserves death then what about the one who leaves the Religion of Allah after willingly accepting it as the truth? Or is religion not important to you?

                        The Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم said: ''Whoever changes his religion, Kill him''
                        This is clearly referring to a Muslim who becomes an apostate because when he enters Islam the Islamic Rules apply to him,

                        Also do remember the religion was completed over 23 years, the law of apostasy came closer to the end and is mentioned clearly in the above Hadith, if you mention something before this then it holds no weight just as if you mention a hadith where women did not observe Hijab as the Hijab obligation too was revealed later in madinah, or a hadith where the companions RA held or drank alcohol (without sin) because alcohol was banned later
                        ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Question about the apostasy law

                          You may proceed with your drivel as you like now.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Question about the apostasy law

                            Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                            You may proceed with your drivel as you like now.
                            Don't run away, I explained that the verses and Hadith you gave have been abrogated just like alcohol, was originally ok
                            Can't you refute me now?
                            ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Question about the apostasy law

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                              • #90
                                Re: Question about the apostasy law

                                Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                                The matter is clear, as any reasonable person can see. So I will let you continue as you wish, as your words have no effect on anything. But for the benefit of those who wish to follow the straight path:

                                When you read all of the Qur'an and Sunnah within context, you would know that the verse in the Qur'an which states "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) completely eradicates any rationality that the hadiths means to kill someone because they left Islam. Verses 88-93 of chapter 4, particularly 91, prohibits killing anyone, the hypocrites and apostates, unless it is in self-defense from an attack by them. Verse 8:61 forbids fighting anyone who inclines to peace. Lastly, even in the very same volume of Bukhari, in volume 9 book 89, numbers 316 and 318 show that when a person came to the Muhammad and wanted to leave Islam and asked his permission, Muhammad (saw)........did nothing. And when the man walked away, Muhammad (saw).......did nothing. With all of this context, it is clear that when concerning the killing of apostate, it was ordered to do so and done so in response to apostates who waged war or conspired in war with the Muslims. Not just for simply leaving Islam.

                                And Allah knows best.
                                Execution is mandated by Allah and his Messenger:saw: for anyone who renounces Islam. Technically, the only way the Islamic authorities would know someone left Islam is if they publicly renounced or worked agaisnt the religion in someway, therefore kind of confirming what you are trying to say.
                                وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
                                They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

                                Comment

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