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  • A friend has asked this list of questions

    Assalamu Alaykum.

    I was hoping someone could give brief but precise answers to this list of questions my friend asked me some time ago.

    Please note that these questions are creating doubts in his mind and since I'll be copy pasting any answer you give, make sure you write it in a tone that's appropriate and directed towards clearing doubts.

    Q1) What is the wisdom behind the permissibility of muslim men having sexual relations with slave girls even though they can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives? Can Muslim men have as many slave girls as they want? Does the man need permission of the slave girl before he approaches her or he can do it whenever he wants?

    Q2) What is the scholarly evidence that says music is impermissible?

    Q3) What was the age of Hazrat Aisha RA when Muhammad ﷺ consummated the marriage with her? If it was 9, then why isn't it wrong?

    Q4) If your answer to Q3 is that it was the norm of that time to marry at such young age, then given the scientific research of today that marrying at such a small age can have detrimental affect on the girl, why did Muhammad ﷺ proceed with the marriage? Even though it was okay to marry. it doesn't mean he should have married her at such a small age. Just like alcohol and other bad practices were stopped, this practice of marrying at a young age should also have been stopped at that point! After all, Muhammad ﷺ was sent as an example of best conduct to the mankind!

    I should remind you that today's scientific research says marrying at such a small age can negatively affect the body of the girl if she gets pregnant.



    Jazak Allah Khair.

  • #2
    Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

    Originally posted by BroBeardy View Post
    Assalamu Alaykum.

    I was hoping someone could give brief but precise answers to this list of questions my friend asked me some time ago.

    Please note that these questions are creating doubts in his mind and since I'll be copy pasting any answer you give, make sure you write it in a tone that's appropriate and directed towards clearing doubts.

    Q1) What is the wisdom behind the permissibility of muslim men having sexual relations with slave girls even though they can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives? Can Muslim men have as many slave girls as they want? Does the man need permission of the slave girl before he approaches her or he can do it whenever he wants?

    Q2) What is the scholarly evidence that says music is impermissible?

    Q3) What was the age of Hazrat Aisha RA when Muhammad ﷺ consummated the marriage with her? If it was 9, then why isn't it wrong?

    Q4) If your answer to Q3 is that it was the norm of that time to marry at such young age, then given the scientific research of today that marrying at such a small age can have detrimental affect on the girl, why did Muhammad ﷺ proceed with the marriage? Even though it was okay to marry. it doesn't mean he should have married her at such a small age. Just like alcohol and other bad practices were stopped, this practice of marrying at a young age should also have been stopped at that point! After all, Muhammad ﷺ was sent as an example of best conduct to the mankind!

    I should remind you that today's scientific research says marrying at such a small age can negatively affect the body of the girl if she gets pregnant.



    Jazak Allah Khair.
    If your answer to Q3 is that it was the norm of that time to marry at such young age, then given the scientific research of today that marrying at such a small age can have detrimental affect on the girl, why did Muhammad ﷺ proceed with the marriage? Even though it was okay to marry. it doesn't mean he should have married her at such a small age. Just like alcohol and other bad practices were stopped, this practice of marrying at a young age should also have been stopped at that point! After all, Muhammad ﷺ was sent as an example of best conduct to the mankind!

    I should remind you that today's scientific research says marrying at such a small age can negatively affect the body of the girl if she gets pregnant.

    You are trying to understand a entirely different time period and age with the research and findings of today. There's your problem right there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

      Originally posted by BroBeardy View Post
      Assalamu Alaykum.

      I was hoping someone could give brief but precise answers to this list of questions my friend asked me some time ago.

      Please note that these questions are creating doubts in his mind and since I'll be copy pasting any answer you give, make sure you write it in a tone that's appropriate and directed towards clearing doubts.

      Q1) What is the wisdom behind the permissibility of muslim men having sexual relations with slave girls even though they can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives? Can Muslim men have as many slave girls as they want? Does the man need permission of the slave girl before he approaches her or he can do it whenever he wants?

      Q2) What is the scholarly evidence that says music is impermissible?

      Q3) What was the age of Hazrat Aisha RA when Muhammad ﷺ consummated the marriage with her? If it was 9, then why isn't it wrong?

      Q4) If your answer to Q3 is that it was the norm of that time to marry at such young age, then given the scientific research of today that marrying at such a small age can have detrimental affect on the girl, why did Muhammad ﷺ proceed with the marriage? Even though it was okay to marry. it doesn't mean he should have married her at such a small age. Just like alcohol and other bad practices were stopped, this practice of marrying at a young age should also have been stopped at that point! After all, Muhammad ﷺ was sent as an example of best conduct to the mankind!

      I should remind you that today's scientific research says marrying at such a small age can negatively affect the body of the girl if she gets pregnant.



      Jazak Allah Khair.
      Response:

      1.Islam does not permit sex with slave girls, as slavery is prohibited in Islam as well as sex outside of marriage. The Qur'an was revealed in intervals (25:32). This means that it was revealed piece by piece and not all at once, so there are plenty of documented events showing Muslims doing things that are not allowed in Islam only because the verses were not revealed yet to condemn them. Such is the case when the Muslims would have sex slaves. It is not a teaching that is taught by Islam or Muhammad (saw), but that it was a practice during his time that was condemned later. Muslims were eventually ordered to marry their captive women if they wished to have sex with them. How do we know this?

      Book 008, Number 3432:

      Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).

      Here we see that Muslims who took women as female captives of war questioned whether they could have sex with the women and it was confirmed that they could do so after the verse 4:24 was revealed. A verse that says to MARRY your captive. So sex now takes place between husband and wife, and not with a slave.


      2.Music is permitted in Islam, as long as it does not condone indecency or teachings that go against Islam. Scholarly arguments have been given to say otherwise, which is primarily based on the following hadith:

      “From among my followers there will be people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful”.This would lead us to believe that all music is haram. Yet we also read in Bukhari the following:

      Narrated Aisha: “Abu Bakr came to my hourse while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, “Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah’s Apostle!” It happened on the Id day and Allah’s Apostle said “O Abu Bakr! There is an Id for every nation and this is our Id”.

      Narrated Urwa on the authority of Aisha: On the days of Mina, Abu Bakr came to her while two young girls were beating the duff and the Prophet was lying covered with his clothes. Abu Bakr scolded them and the Prophet uncovered his face and said to Abu Bakr, “Leave them, for these days are the days of Id and the days of Mina. “

      So some scholars (not the Prophet) have interpreted that musical instruments are haram because of the hadith that says that the use of musical instruments are illegal. Yet we find that the duff is being used in the presence of the Prophet as music. So there is a contradiction. To address this contradiction, scholars say the duff was allowed because it was not a musical instrument. Others say it is allowed but only during Islamic events, such as the Id.

      None of these answers are accurate because the Prophet just stated in one narration that musical instruments are haram. How can you now say the duff is allowed or permissible only in Islamic festivities? That is a contradiction. Also, there is no logical basis to ban all instruments except the duff or drum.

      We can also dig further and see that the authenticity of this hadith in Bukhari is not reliable. This does not mean that the collection of hadiths in Bukhari are not the most reliable but as we will see, Bukhari himself did not include this hadith in his authentic collection. Bukhari would include a title for an authentic hadith, then under it lists the authentic hadith. The titles would include some of his fiqh and also another hadith that was not on the same level as his authentic hadith. This was done to bring clarification to the authentic hadiths listed below it. So the hadith about music was a title by Bukhari and he did not put it in his authentic collection. Even today, the isnad (chain or narrators) reads that one of the narrators, ibn Hisham, fails to narrate who told him the hadith. So the hadith is not authentic.


      Yet some scholars found another connected chain for this type of hadith according to Ibn Hajr. Therefore, they deemed that the hadith is authentic themselves, but Bukhari never did so. So Bukhari has been edited to include the hadith as authentic. However, scholars still disagree to its authenticity, including famous scholar ibn Hazm who states that all hadith related to prohibiting music are not authentic.

      So in conclusion, music is permissible, unless used in an indecent way or goes against Islam.

      Q. 3 and 4.

      The hadiths do say that Aisha was married when she was six and the marriage was consummated when she was 9. It was common practice to marry a girl when she was young and once she reaches puberty and through consent, they would partake in sexual contact. The common objection is that the Prophet had sex with a 9 year old. Yet the hadith does not say this. It says the marriage was “consummated”, which has more than one meaning. Consummate also means “to complete”. Thus the hadith means the marriage was completed when she was 9, which refers to Aisha moving in to live with the Prophet for the first time as a wife.

      Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
      Narrated 'Ursa:
      The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
      (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311).
      'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years
      old. Sahih Muslim Book 8, Number 3310

      The hadiths show with context, that Muhammad married Aisha at 6 (wrote the contract), and he entered into the contract when she was 9 by living together. Not that she had sex at 9. So consummation is referring to living together. Not sex. Sex took place after she reached maturity and puberty and through her consent. Last, the purpose of marriage is to love and care for each other. Not sex. So marrying a young girl does not have negative effects since there is nothing negative in loving and caring for someone. It is negative to have sex when she is young, yet as explained, sex takes place only through consent and when they reach maturity and puberty, which means they are adults.

      And Allah knows best.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

        Originally posted by BroBeardy View Post
        Assalamu Alaykum.

        I was hoping someone could give brief but precise answers to this list of questions my friend asked me some time ago.

        Please note that these questions are creating doubts in his mind and since I'll be copy pasting any answer you give, make sure you write it in a tone that's appropriate and directed towards clearing doubts.

        Q1) What is the wisdom behind the permissibility of muslim men having sexual relations with slave girls even though they can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives? Can Muslim men have as many slave girls as they want? Does the man need permission of the slave girl before he approaches her or he can do it whenever he wants?

        Q2) What is the scholarly evidence that says music is impermissible?

        Q3) What was the age of Hazrat Aisha RA when Muhammad ﷺ consummated the marriage with her? If it was 9, then why isn't it wrong?

        Q4) If your answer to Q3 is that it was the norm of that time to marry at such young age, then given the scientific research of today that marrying at such a small age can have detrimental affect on the girl, why did Muhammad ﷺ proceed with the marriage? Even though it was okay to marry. it doesn't mean he should have married her at such a small age. Just like alcohol and other bad practices were stopped, this practice of marrying at a young age should also have been stopped at that point! After all, Muhammad ﷺ was sent as an example of best conduct to the mankind!

        I should remind you that today's scientific research says marrying at such a small age can negatively affect the body of the girl if she gets pregnant.



        Jazak Allah Khair.
        Walaikum salam wa rahmatullah.

        Your "friend" doesnt sound like a very good friend. Brobeardy, do you live in a Western kafir country?
        Your "friend" sounds like an enemy of Islam and a kafir who exudes hatred from his mouth but what his heart contains is far worse.
        I could be wrong but thats what it sounds like from his talking points/questions.

        Brobeardy, why do you have doubts from these questions?

        Are you concerned your friend wont agree with the answers? Does he/she think he/she has a better way of life that knlws more about human nature and how to govern a society?

        I hope you can answer these questions. Because right nlw the world has been run according to Western man made ideologies and the world is being run into ruin with capitalism caused climate change and political chaos and economic crises and disparity.

        As for alFatiha's first response, he is wrong by claiming slavery and sex with a concubine, or sarriya, is forbidden.
        Prophet Ibrahim :as: had Hajar (rh) as a sarriya. Many prophets of Allah had sarriya, or concubine with whom one has sex .
        This is a legal relationship in Islam and the woman has certain rights and the man has certain duties to her and their offspring.

        The Prophet had slaves and he had two concubine, or sarriya: Rayhana and Maryam the Copt with whom he had a son, Ibrahim. Many of the sahaba had concubine. Umar and Ali :RA: both had concubines who bore them children.
        Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
        " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

          Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
          Walaikum salam wa rahmatullah.

          Your "friend" doesnt sound like a very good friend. Brobeardy, do you live in a Western kafir country?
          Your "friend" sounds like an enemy of Islam and a kafir who exudes hatred from his mouth but what his heart contains is far worse.
          I could be wrong but thats what it sounds like from his talking points/questions.

          Brobeardy, why do you have doubts from these questions?

          Are you concerned your friend wont agree with the answers? Does he/she think he/she has a better way of life that knlws more about human nature and how to govern a society?

          I hope you can answer these questions. Because right nlw the world has been run according to Western man made ideologies and the world is being run into ruin with capitalism caused climate change and political chaos and economic crises and disparity.

          As for alFatiha's first response, he is wrong by claiming slavery and sex with a concubine, or sarriya, is forbidden.
          Prophet Ibrahim :as: had Hajar (rh) as a sarriya. Many prophets of Allah had sarriya, or concubine with whom one has sex .
          This is a legal relationship in Islam and the woman has certain rights and the man has certain duties to her and their offspring.

          The Prophet had slaves and he had two concubine, or sarriya: Rayhana and Maryam the Copt with whom he had a son, Ibrahim. Many of the sahaba had concubine. Umar and Ali :RA: both had concubines who bore them children.
          Response: Just when I think I hear the most ignorant claims on this forum, this one takes the cake. Did you just accuse our Prophet of having sex with slaves?

          Please, do not be ignorant and make me embarrass you by slandering the Prophet because you want to be ignorant. The Qur'an is clear that sex outside of marriage is unlawful so clearly, there is no such thing as sex with a slave. And every story which says the Prophet's had concubines and sex slaves are false and made up. Neither the Qur'an or any authentic hadith states this. Educate yourself.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

            Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
            Response: Just when I think I hear the most ignorant claims on this forum, this one takes the cake. Did you just accuse our Prophet of having sex with slaves?

            Please, do not be ignorant and make me embarrass you by slandering the Prophet because you want to be ignorant. The Qur'an is clear that sex outside of marriage is unlawful so clearly, there is no such thing as sex with a slave. And every story which says the Prophet's had concubines and sex slaves are false and made up. Neither the Qur'an or any authentic hadith states this. Educate yourself.
            http://islamqa.info/en/10382

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

              Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
              Walaikum salam wa rahmatullah.

              Your "friend" doesnt sound like a very good friend. Brobeardy, do you live in a Western kafir country?
              Your "friend" sounds like an enemy of Islam and a kafir who exudes hatred from his mouth but what his heart contains is far worse.
              I could be wrong but thats what it sounds like from his talking points/questions.

              Brobeardy, why do you have doubts from these questions?

              Are you concerned your friend wont agree with the answers? Does he/she think he/she has a better way of life that knlws more about human nature and how to govern a society?

              I hope you can answer these questions. Because right nlw the world has been run according to Western man made ideologies and the world is being run into ruin with capitalism caused climate change and political chaos and economic crises and disparity.

              As for alFatiha's first response, he is wrong by claiming slavery and sex with a concubine, or sarriya, is forbidden.
              Prophet Ibrahim :as: had Hajar (rh) as a sarriya. Many prophets of Allah had sarriya, or concubine with whom one has sex .
              This is a legal relationship in Islam and the woman has certain rights and the man has certain duties to her and their offspring.

              The Prophet had slaves and he had two concubine, or sarriya: Rayhana and Maryam the Copt with whom he had a son, Ibrahim. Many of the sahaba had concubine. Umar and Ali :RA: both had concubines who bore them children.
              I'm not having any doubts, it's my friend who is having them. We live a in a Muslim country and he's a Muslim too.

              I know sexual relations with slave girls are allowed, however the question pertains to why is it allowed when the men can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                Originally posted by abdulmalik786 View Post
                Response: Concerning verse 4:24, the verse refers to marriage, meaning that it is forbidden to marry another married woman unless she is a married slave whom was rightfully possessed. A slave whom is rightfully possessed in Islam was a woman who was married after being a captive. They were allowed to be married despite being already married because such marriages to their non-Muslim husbands were not proper marriages under Islam. The verse does not give permission to have sex outside of marriage, as the very next verse of the Qur'an supports this.

                Concerning the other verse, the expression again being used is "what you rightfully possess". Many Muslims take this to mean slaves, but that is not correct. For the Qur'an clearly uses the Arabic word "amatun" when speaking of female slaves in 2:221 and 24:32, and other places. What your right hands possess or what you rightfully possess can refer to slaves, but does not literally mean slaves or female slaves. It is an expression "ma malakat aimainukum", which can refer to property, slaves and spouses. Here, it is used for spouses. Thus the verse should read that one can have sex with their spouse, that they rightfully possess. A rightful possession as explained above can be a slave, but since we are speaking of a rightful possession and sex outside of marriage is forbidden in Islam, it refers to also having sex with slaves once they are free and married.

                As for the hadiths that refer to sex with slaves, the Qur'an was revealed in intervals (25:32). This means that it was revealed piece by piece and not all at once, so there are plenty of documented events showing Muslims doing things that are not allowed in Islam only because the verses were not revealed yet to condemn them. Alcohol, for example is one of them. Such is the case when the Muslims would have sex slaves. It is not a teaching that is taught by Islam or Muhammad (saw), but that it was a practice during his time that was condemned later. Muslims were eventually ordered to free them then get married for any sexual relations to occur, as the verses of the Qur'an demonstrate.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                  Originally posted by BroBeardy View Post
                  I'm not having any doubts, it's my friend who is having them. We live a in a Muslim country and he's a Muslim too.

                  I know sexual relations with slave girls are allowed, however the question pertains to why is it allowed when the men can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives?
                  Because Allah has permitted it. Not every ruling that exists we have a reason or wisdom.
                  Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                  How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                  Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                    Originally posted by BroBeardy View Post
                    Assalamu Alaykum.

                    I was hoping someone could give brief but precise answers to this list of questions my friend asked me some time ago.

                    Please note that these questions are creating doubts in his mind and since I'll be copy pasting any answer you give, make sure you write it in a tone that's appropriate and directed towards clearing doubts.

                    Q1) What is the wisdom behind the permissibility of muslim men having sexual relations with slave girls even though they can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives? Can Muslim men have as many slave girls as they want? Does the man need permission of the slave girl before he approaches her or he can do it whenever he wants?
                    http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/28737

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                      Originally posted by BroBeardy View Post
                      I'm not having any doubts, it's my friend who is having them. We live a in a Muslim country and he's a Muslim too.

                      I know sexual relations with slave girls are allowed, however the question pertains to why is it allowed when the men can fulfill their needs with their wife/wives?
                      Response: Sex with slave girls is not allowed. Neither slavery or sex outside of marriage is allowed so clearly, sex with a slave girl is not allowed. Only the ignorance and arrogance of some Muslims say otherwise.

                      May Allah guide those Muslims out of their ignorance and arrogance by slandering our Prophet with such a degrading charge in accusing him of allowing sex with slave girls. The Prophet was above such behavior.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                        Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                        Response: Sex with slave girls is not allowed. Neither slavery or sex outside of marriage is allowed so clearly, sex with a slave girl is not allowed. Only the ignorance and arrogance of some Muslims say otherwise.

                        May Allah guide those Muslims out of their ignorance and arrogance by slandering our Prophet with such a degrading charge in accusing him of allowing sex with slave girls. The Prophet was above such behavior.
                        Unlike with music, there is zero difference of opinion on this matter. Unanimous ijmaa on this ruling.
                        Prophet :saw: had a son via Mariya the Copt called Ibrahim, and he died after 1 year. All of it authentically proven in many ahaadith. You are talking nonsense, your opinions carry no value in face of real facts. you lack knowledge on the Arabic language, fiqh, or hadeeth sciences.
                        Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                        How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                        Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                          Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                          Unlike with music, there is zero difference of opinion on this matter. Unanimous ijmaa on this ruling.
                          Prophet :saw: had a son via Mariya the Copt called Ibrahim, and he died after 1 year. All of it authentically proven in many ahaadith. You are talking nonsense, your opinions carry no value in face of real facts. you lack knowledge on the Arabic language, fiqh, or hadeeth sciences.
                          Response: Truth is based on logic and reason. Not a vote or consensus. So just like your methodology on Music, your methodology to ignore logic and play follow the leader in regards to this topic is also invalid and haram. Allah says to use reason and puts his wrath on those who do not (10:100), and practice the haram act of taqleed as you do.

                          The Prophet did not have sex outside of marriage or sex with a slave girl. So your deluded ignorance and dumbfounded practice of taqleed holds no validity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                            Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                            Because Allah has permitted it. Not every ruling that exists we have a reason or wisdom.
                            I know this too. However, it would be better if you could think of some wisdom behind this ruling of Allah. As I stated above, my friend is having doubts about Islam due to these issues. Giving him answers like the one you gave will only aggravate his situation. Hope you understand.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A friend has asked this list of questions

                              Originally posted by Al-Fatihah View Post
                              Response: Truth is based on logic and reason. Not a vote or consensus. So just like your methodology on Music, your methodology to ignore logic and play follow the leader in regards to this topic is also invalid and haram. Allah says to use reason and puts his wrath on those who do not (10:100), and practice the haram act of taqleed as you do.

                              The Prophet did not have sex outside of marriage or sex with a slave girl. So your deluded ignorance and dumbfounded practice of taqleed holds no validity.
                              Ijmaa is based on facts, and there is zero dispute regarding all the evidences that exist regarding permissibility of this. Either back your logic up with facts of which you presented nothing ur own opinions not supported by anything,vyou just expect people to take your word for it.
                              Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                              How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                              Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                              Comment

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