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Concerning suicide

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  • arauf022
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by Najom View Post
    In the news in the UK at the moment, there's been a story about a missing 13 year old girl, who's a non-Muslim. It would appear that she was found earlier today, having hanged herself after an argument with her parents.

    What happens to her in Islam, given her age? I know both suicide and disbelief are sins, but would she be forgiven, or is it too much?

    Thanks.
    Sad news! I thought to write..that what happens who does suicide! but i think it's would be out of your belief. Her parents should perform prayer as much they can for her soul...
    Suicide is not way to escape from suffering! it's Never help!

    May ALLAH give peace to her soul!

    Leave a comment:


  • mpb394
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by طالب العلمAhmed View Post
    if she had not reached the age of puberty then she is considered innocent, and will end up in heaven, since she is not yet accountable for her actions (islamically)





    its okay to feel sad and wish good, however we are not supposed to make dua or pray for them (in fact some scholars would say it is forbidden to do so), just like the prophet wasn't allowed to pray for abu talib
    We cannot compare the Prophet (swt) and Abu Talib's situation to current events. That may have been an exception to the rule. I don't care what the scholars say regarding this 1 issue - IF that is what they have said (as a plain direction). When you see a human suffering it is perfectly natural for you to feel for them... want the best for them and hope that they recieve the same mercy that you do - for isn't that what we want for everyone? Would anyone WANT someone to go into hellfire? I certainly wouldn't.. I wouldn't want anyone to suffer that torment for eternity. There is no punishment greater than the punishment Allah (swt) can give and that's just it... it's a punishment which only Allah (swt) can give. We don't know this person... we see the action but we do not know the intention or her circumstances... and because we don't know her intention or her circumstances... we cannot pass judgement and we must give her the benefit of the doubt - otherwise we become judges ourselves. We don't know if she is worthy of our prayer... but that's just it, we do not know... so we should do good for goodness sake. However, i will agree with the Scholars IF the circumstances fit the forbiddance to pray for her... but we do not know the circumstances so i say "pray for her anyway". In my view... the Scholars have said the circumstance for you to not pray for someone.......... but when have those circumstances ever present themselves to us? How do we know what is in the heart and mind of another? We do not know. Sure, the circumstances fit the bill but you will never have those circumstances presented to you? So when i say "I don't care what the scholars say regarding this 1 issue" (if that is what they have said)... I do care... however, what they have said in my mind you can never know if someone truly doesn't deserve you prayer... you have no idea what is in their heart and in their minds. A sin is only a sin if the action itself is matched with the heart and intention. I am not refuting what they have said... I'm saying it is not that black and white. Sure, you can tell me not to pray for someone or forbid me to pray for someone who fits those circumstances... but i will never know those circumstances/heart and intention of another.

    Salam
    Last edited by mpb394; 04-06-15, 09:54 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Imaam
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    How can a mentally sane person commit suicide?

    What was her intention? To make her parents feel bad?

    We never know.

    My guess is that she hasn't been properly tested in this life. She will probably be tested in the Day of Judgement and her akhirah fate would depend on that test. As to this, this perhaps maybe a test or redemption for her parents.

    Leave a comment:


  • eesa the kiwi
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by mpb394 View Post
    I have to disagree with the bold. Even if our prayer doesn't mean anything... the fact that we pray for her is worth something. It makes us human. If she is punished - i would still pray for her, even after she is punished - because i wish good for all, not just my brothers and sisters in Islam. We should be good for goodness sake. Allah (swt) loves the servant who is merciful.
    undoubtedly it is a sad and terrible thing that occured, Allah swt knows best as to her fate, he is most merciful with his slaves and their is actually alot in her favor as she sounds like she was pre pubescent, she possibly could have been suffering from mental illness (the insane person does not have deeds recorded against them) and it sounds improbable that the true message of islam was conveyed to her
    however in islam if a person dies upon disbelief we are forbidden to make dua for them,
    i would suggest that we all trust in the fact that Allah is most merciful and he is not unjust in the least to his slaves and leave her fate with him
    we would be better making dua for the guidance of the living
    may Allah aid us all in dawah
    asalamu alaikum

    Leave a comment:


  • طالب العلمAhmed
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by Najom View Post
    In the news in the UK at the moment, there's been a story about a missing 13 year old girl, who's a non-Muslim. It would appear that she was found earlier today, having hanged herself after an argument with her parents.

    What happens to her in Islam, given her age? I know both suicide and disbelief are sins, but would she be forgiven, or is it too much?

    Thanks.
    if she had not reached the age of puberty then she is considered innocent, and will end up in heaven, since she is not yet accountable for her actions (islamically)



    Originally posted by mpb394 View Post
    I have to disagree with the bold. Even if our prayer doesn't mean anything... the fact that we pray for her is worth something. It makes us human. If she is punished - i would still pray for her, even after she is punished - because i wish good for all, not just my brothers and sisters in Islam. We should be good for goodness sake. Allah (swt) loves the servant who is merciful.
    its okay to feel sad and wish good, however we are not supposed to make dua or pray for them (in fact some scholars would say it is forbidden to do so), just like the prophet wasn't allowed to pray for abu talib

    Leave a comment:


  • mpb394
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    Brother, the story you refer to sounds sad.

    I am not a faqih and cannot judge where or how this girl will be treated in the Akhirah.
    However, there are a few factors one might use to understand how the Shariah might deal with this.

    There are three major factors in determining her fate.
    Her age
    Her intellect (was she insane, mentally ill, or intellectually mature?)
    Her belief ( religious affiliation)
    Her knowledge of the sin of suicide

    I cannot judge her fate. The nature of suicide is neither the victim nor the perpetrator can testify as to the matter.

    Nonetheless, in Shariah, there is a legal difference between the prepubescent child and the post-pubescent youth.

    There is also a matter of her intellect. Was she insane?
    Did she suffer from mental illnesses that drove her to such an act?
    Was she intellectually and morally mature such that she took on adult responsibilities?


    As for her belief, if a person dies without knowing of Islam and the Prophet , then it is understood they are to be grouped and eventually judged according to whichever prophet she followed, or her family followed. If she was deemed a Christian, then she would be judged by Allah according to what He revealed to Prophet Isa bin Maryam :AS:.

    And lastly, it is known that some children are severely neglected such that they lack even basic socialization and culturing. It is possible that she was not even properly taught about right and wrong.

    As Muslims, we can only speculate as to her fate in the Akhirah. Im not sure it helps us to do so as her fate is quite sad no matter the outcome.

    And as she did not die a Muslim, one cannot pray to Allah on her behalf.

    Better to pray for the children who are living now that they are guided.

    And Allah knows best.
    I have to disagree with the bold. Even if our prayer doesn't mean anything... the fact that we pray for her is worth something. It makes us human. If she is punished - i would still pray for her, even after she is punished - because i wish good for all, not just my brothers and sisters in Islam. We should be good for goodness sake. Allah (swt) loves the servant who is merciful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu Kamel
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by Najom View Post
    In the news in the UK at the moment, there's been a story about a missing 13 year old girl, who's a non-Muslim. It would appear that she was found earlier today, having hanged herself after an argument with her parents.

    What happens to her in Islam, given her age? I know both suicide and disbelief are sins, but would she be forgiven, or is it too much?

    Thanks.
    Brother, the story you refer to sounds sad.

    I am not a faqih and cannot judge where or how this girl will be treated in the Akhirah.
    However, there are a few factors one might use to understand how the Shariah might deal with this.

    There are three major factors in determining her fate.
    Her age
    Her intellect (was she insane, mentally ill, or intellectually mature?)
    Her belief ( religious affiliation)
    Her knowledge of the sin of suicide

    I cannot judge her fate. The nature of suicide is neither the victim nor the perpetrator can testify as to the matter.

    Nonetheless, in Shariah, there is a legal difference between the prepubescent child and the post-pubescent youth.

    There is also a matter of her intellect. Was she insane?
    Did she suffer from mental illnesses that drove her to such an act?
    Was she intellectually and morally mature such that she took on adult responsibilities?


    As for her belief, if a person dies without knowing of Islam and the Prophet , then it is understood they are to be grouped and eventually judged according to whichever prophet she followed, or her family followed. If she was deemed a Christian, then she would be judged by Allah according to what He revealed to Prophet Isa bin Maryam :AS:.

    And lastly, it is known that some children are severely neglected such that they lack even basic socialization and culturing. It is possible that she was not even properly taught about right and wrong.

    As Muslims, we can only speculate as to her fate in the Akhirah. Im not sure it helps us to do so as her fate is quite sad no matter the outcome.

    And as she did not die a Muslim, one cannot pray to Allah on her behalf.

    Better to pray for the children who are living now that they are guided.

    And Allah knows best.

    Leave a comment:


  • mpb394
    replied
    Re: Concerning suicide

    Originally posted by Najom View Post
    In the news in the UK at the moment, there's been a story about a missing 13 year old girl, who's a non-Muslim. It would appear that she was found earlier today, having hanged herself after an argument with her parents.

    What happens to her in Islam, given her age? I know both suicide and disbelief are sins, but would she be forgiven, or is it too much?

    Thanks.
    Allah (swt) does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. In my view, some suicide may derive from a mental health condition - sometimes it doesn't. Only Allah (swt) knows. If someone is seriously mentall ill and commits suicide...trial or not, they are ill. I have faith in Allah (swt) and would make the claim that he wouldn't punish a sick person. It's not a black and white issue - but technicolor.

    This person could have been so upset and lost within that upset... Allah (swt) understands that she was lost in it... Some people can't rationalize and find it ridiculously hard to do so - for reasons which we do not know. Allah (swt) will be the judge of her soul and we cannot make any claim that she will go to heaven or hell.
    Last edited by mpb394; 03-06-15, 06:32 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Najom
    started a topic Concerning suicide

    Concerning suicide

    In the news in the UK at the moment, there's been a story about a missing 13 year old girl, who's a non-Muslim. It would appear that she was found earlier today, having hanged herself after an argument with her parents.

    What happens to her in Islam, given her age? I know both suicide and disbelief are sins, but would she be forgiven, or is it too much?

    Thanks.

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