Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

    Points of contention:

    1. If Allah swt created space and movement, why would he be subject to the very creation he himself created?
    2. If he created space , why would he himself be limited to a location in space and be able to move from area x to area y, was he also limited before creating it, and if he wasn't why then subject himself to limitations?
    3. Why would Allah swt require movement, when he is free of all need?
    4. Could he still be God and be limited by time and distance and space - attributes he himself created?

  • #2
    http://islamqa.info/en/12290http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/...f-every-night/

    ----



    Hope that helped.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

      Originally posted by thisissultan View Post
      x.
      Asalamulaikum brother.

      I thank you for that reply,

      After doing research i did see another prevalent view, which stated it is not an angel that descends, but Allah swt himself, and we must not ask how he does it or use logic, only affirm that he indeed goes from one place to another. Why do you think such a view has prevalence in the Ummah by some?

      Taken from: http://islamqa.info/en/20081

      2 – What is meant by the descent of Allaah – may He be exalted – to the lowest heaven:

      It should be noted that the descent of the Lord – may He be exalted – to the lowest heaven is one of the actions that are attributed to Him and has to do with His will and wisdom. It is descending in a real sense, in a manner that befits His majesty and might. Allaah descends however He wills, whenever He wills. Glory be to Him, there is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing. It is not permissible to distort the meaning of the hadeeth by saying that what is meant is that His command or mercy descends, or that one of His angels descends. This is false for several reasons:

      (i) This misinterpretation goes against the apparent meaning of the hadeeth. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) attributed descent or the act of descending to Allaah, and the basic principle is that a thing is attributed to the one who does it, so if it is attributed to someone else, that is a distortion that goes against this basic principle. We know that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the most knowledgeable of all people about Allaah, and that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the most eloquent of mankind and the most truthful in what he says. There are no lies in his speech and it is impossible for him to attribute something to Allaah that is not one of His names or attributes or actions or rulings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

      There is also a video which affirms this view point:



      Last edited by logicalislam; 09-05-15, 02:01 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

        Im afraid that view above by Ibn Taymiyya is wrong; it infact is kufr [as it regards Allah to be like creation [as creation can occupy something! and creation has a direction such as it can be 'above' or below' etc] but we do not say they are kaafir due to the tawil involved [in an attempt to come to the truth, they were genuinely mistaken]

        the correct meaning is that Allah's created Rahma descends!

        read all about these seemingly metaphorical statements in link:

        http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32964

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

          To not complicate things just remember that he is above his throne in a way that suits his majesty and descends in a way that suits his majesty, the same way that he see's all and hears all and knows all at one and the same time unlike his creation, and there is non-likened unto him. We will never completely understand it, we have a better chance at understanding quantum entanglement than this.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

            Originally posted by thisissultan View Post
            To not complicate things just remember that he is above his throne in a way that suits his majesty and descends in a way that suits his majesty, the same way that he see's all and hears all and knows all at one and the same time unlike his creation, and there is non-likened unto him. We will never completely understand it, we have a better chance at understanding quantum entanglement than this.
            this is wrong bro; Allah does not literally ascend or descend in any way; these are metaphorical statements!; there are unfortunately two different aqeedahs out there competing with one another; one of them [that islamq&a site] gets it very very wrong in these matters

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

              Originally posted by thisissultan View Post
              To not complicate things just remember that he is above his throne in a way that suits his majesty and descends in a way that suits his majesty, the same way that he see's all and hears all and knows all at one and the same time unlike his creation, and there is non-likened unto him. We will never completely understand it, we have a better chance at understanding quantum entanglement than this.
              there are attributes of Allah such as seeing, hearing etc, but even these get cancelled out when we get near to infinity [i.e, out of the realms of the known universe and thinking] so the attributes are only known contingently, but those above are not attributes

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/littlk.htm

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                  Originally posted by thisissultan View Post
                  To not complicate things just remember that he is above his throne in a way that suits his majesty and descends in a way that suits his majesty, the same way that he see's all and hears all and knows all at one and the same time unlike his creation, and there is non-likened unto him. We will never completely understand it, we have a better chance at understanding quantum entanglement than this.
                  Thank you so much for spending so much time giving me information,

                  I am a little confused. If Allah swt is the one who created space, position, direction, why is he then attributed to being 'above' ? Surely he can not be described by means of direction?

                  Before Allah swt created anything, where was he? Surely it was he who created 'where' and existed before there was a where.

                  When we says he see's all and hear all, we do not say he has eyes or ears, but he see's and hears metaphorically in his absolute knowledge of everything.
                  Last edited by logicalislam; 09-05-15, 06:59 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                    Originally posted by Jannah2 View Post
                    there are attributes of Allah such as seeing, hearing etc, but even these get cancelled out when we get near to infinity [i.e, out of the realms of the known universe and thinking] so the attributes are only known contingently, but those above are not attributes
                    I'm a little confused, don't some people say he has a face?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                      Originally posted by Nassa View Post
                      Im afraid that view above by Ibn Taymiyya is wrong; it infact is kufr [as it regards Allah to be like creation [as creation can occupy something! and creation has a direction such as it can be 'above' or below' etc] but we do not say they are kaafir due to the tawil involved [in an attempt to come to the truth, they were genuinely mistaken]

                      the correct meaning is that Allah's created Rahma descends!

                      read all about these seemingly metaphorical statements in link:

                      http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32964
                      What about those who say he literally has a shin, but not like our shin?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                        Originally posted by logicalislam View Post
                        In the name of Allah, the most beneficient the most merciful.

                        I had a question that's been making me think, it is to do with the descending hadith. I would be grateful for anyone to clarify for me.

                        Bukhari:
                        1145( Abu Hurairah)
                        “The Lord (Allah swt) descends every night to the lowest heaven when one-third of the night remains and says: ‘Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will seek My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?’”

                        Points of contention:

                        1. If Allah swt created space and movement, why would he be subject to the very creation he himself created?
                        2. If he created space , why would he himself be limited to a location in space and be able to move from area x to area y, was he also limited before creating it, and if he wasn't why then subject himself to limitations?
                        3. Why would Allah swt require movement, when he is free of all need?
                        4. Could he still be God and be limited by time and distance and space - attributes he himself created?
                        I have a question about that hadith that is confusing me. When Allah swt says every night ‘Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will seek My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?’”, why can't we hear it. If we are not supposed to hear it then why does he say it every night? Who is the addressee. Is it also a metaphor?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                          Originally posted by logicalislam View Post
                          I'm a little confused, don't some people say he has a face?

                          well they sort of do; if they say He has a nose, eyes [two eyes at that! :D] then that's like a face

                          read that link by al-mukhtar and you'll get the viewpoint of the majority of Scholars

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                            Originally posted by logicalislam View Post
                            What about those who say he literally has a shin, but not like our shin?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A question about Allah swt ascending or descending

                              Originally posted by logicalislam View Post
                              Thank you so much for spending so much time giving me information,

                              I am a little confused. If Allah swt is the one who created space, position, direction, why is he then attributed to being 'above' ? Surely he can not be described by means of direction?

                              Before Allah swt created anything, where was he? Surely it was he who created 'where' and existed before there was a where.

                              When we says he see's all and hear all, we do not say he has eyes or ears, but he see's and hears metaphorically in his absolute knowledge of everything.
                              A King can be above his subjects without meaning a specific altitude. A commander can be above foot soldiers without being physically above them(i.e In rank, knowledge, power etc) The sun can set without it actually setting, i hope you can see the pattern here. The chair(i.e creation) may only understand certain things within it's means of understanding them.

                              Originally posted by logicalislam View Post
                              I'm a little confused, don't some people say he has a face?
                              Take the following statements, "the face of war is grime", even though war does not have a face. What is a face if not a front/manifestation of a property(namely beauty).

                              Comment

                              Collapse

                              Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                              Working...
                              X