Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

[Marcus_]

Why is there a divide in Islam? What are the differences? Is Gaza sunni or shi'ite?

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Because they, the shia broke away from this Ummah and started claiming Ali should have been the Caliph after the Prophet ;saw: , and that he was divinely appointed during the lifetime of the Prophet :saw: and that basically Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman usurped his right, disobeyed Allah and his Messenger :saw: among a whole load of other fairytales which have no basis in actual reality or real history, and as well as believing we should be following the household of the Prophet :saw: i.e Ali, Fatimah, Hasan, Hussain [May Allah be pleased with them all] and their descendants the Imams.

They also slander and abuse the vast majority of the companions of the Prophet :saw: including some of his own wives

Gaza is Sunni....though there may be Shia there, i dunno...

[Spicen]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Because they, the shia broke away from this Ummah and started claiming Ali should have been the Caliph after the Prophet ;saw: , and that he was divinely appointed during the lifetime of the Prophet :saw: and that basically Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman usurped his right, disobeyed Allah and his Messenger :saw: among a whole load of other fairytales which have no basis in actual reality or real history, and as well as believing we should be following the household of the Prophet :saw: i.e Ali, Fatimah, Hasan, Hussain [May Allah be pleased with them all] and their descendants the Imams.

They also slander and abuse the vast majority of the companions of the Prophet :saw: including some of his own wives

Gaza is Sunni....though there may be Shia there, i dunno...

That is a very fair and honest assessment. Plus, the modern 12er shiaism is heavily influenced by Safavid Empire. The old Ismaili shiaism is dead....mostly.

But we worship the same God, namely Allah and the same Prophet, namely Muhammad(S). Theoretically that should trump the other differences.

And yes Gaza is Sunni. There are few shias in North Palestine.

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

It is sad, we got a person on another topic with doubts on Islam, and 1 of the criticisms made about Islam was against the sahaba and how they supposedly cared more about wealth, power etc than the religion, which is no doubt this person read on Shia website.......

[Spicen]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

It is sad, we got a person on another topic with doubts on Islam, and 1 of the criticisms made about Islam was against the sahaba and how they supposedly cared more about wealth, power etc than the religion, which is no doubt this person read on Shia website.......

There is no doubt that Abu Bakr and Umar were sincere muslims. Whether they made some mistakes or not, that is in Allah's hand to Judge. For example, it was Abu Bakr who accompanied Muhammad(S) in the cave.
Yes it is sad that (some) Shias are rigid about their believes, if Abu Bakr and Umar were greedy they would have given the caliphate to their sons.

[WayBindow]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Because they, the shia broke away from this Ummah and started claiming Ali should have been the Caliph after the Prophet ;saw: , and that he was divinely appointed during the lifetime of the Prophet :saw: and that basically Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman usurped his right, disobeyed Allah and his Messenger :saw: among a whole load of other fairytales which have no basis in actual reality or real history, and as well as believing we should be following the household of the Prophet :saw: i.e Ali, Fatimah, Hasan, Hussain [May Allah be pleased with them all] and their descendants the Imams.

They also slander and abuse the vast majority of the companions of the Prophet :saw: including some of his own wives

Gaza is Sunni....though there may be Shia there, i dunno...

You should be more fair to subject matter. The term Shia is very broad and encompasses a lot of different groups, some of which don't differ very much from the 4 madhabs of Sunni's.

Everything you said is true though, but needs to be placed within context.

@OP: If you want to learn about tashayyu, go ask them. They have a thousand things to say (most of which you will agree with), but get to the heart of the matter, which is the Divine Imamate that they believe in. That is where the conflict is in essence.

[Taboo]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

^ "divine" is downplaying it. they consider it a masum/perfect imamate which is against islam itself. only the prophets (as) themselves were free from religious mistakes, and could still do minor human errors not regarding religion. to say that non-prophets were above this level is ridiculous.

[WayBindow]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

^ "divine" is downplaying it. they consider it a masum/perfect imamate which is against islam itself. only the prophets (as) themselves were free from religious mistakes, and could still do minor human errors not regarding religion. to say that non-prophets were above this level is ridiculous.

But do you understand how or the why they consider their Imam's to be masoom? Did you know they consider Prophets to be masoom with an exception for their choice of wives? They have many arguments about the nature of these things. However, my whole point was to advise OP to avoid getting bogged down in the fiqhi differences. Go to the heart of the matter.

We would be here all day if we discussed the fiqhi differences between Hanbali's and Hanafi's madhabs, let alone 12ers/ Tashayyu.

[Taboo]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

But do you understand how or the why they consider their Imam's to be masoom? Did you know they consider Prophets to be masoom with an exception for their choice of wives? They have many arguments about the nature of these things. However, my whole point was to advise OP to avoid getting bogged down in the fiqhi differences. Go to the heart of the matter.

We would be here all day if we discussed the fiqhi differences between Hanbali's and Hanafi's madhabs, let alone 12ers/ Tashayyu.

You shouldn't assume people don't know what they are on about just because they aren't you. It is really quite arrogant to go into a conversation thinking you possess the ultimate knowledge of the topic or that the other participants are inferior and in need of schooling.

And I do not advise the op to study shiism- which is not islam and was rejected by all historical scholars- until they have a firm grasp on mainstream islam and it's principles, especially aqida. Allah warns the muslims to avoid that information that would cause doubts in the ignorant. Nonmuslims are even more ignorant of islam than uneducated muslims are and are in more dire need of correct information. They don't need to be bogged down with controversial and often-times incorrect details.

The root of the split between shiism and islam is the overly-patriotic followers of Ali radiallahuan.

[Spicen]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

The root of the split between shiism and islam is the overly-patriotic followers of Ali radiallahuan.

and nothing to do with shah ismail 1 i assume?

[Taboo]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

and nothing to do with shah ismail 1 i assume?

he was alive long afterwards

[Jannah2]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

there is differences due to free-will; it is inevitable that some Muslims will be astray!

[candyapple]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Shia's believe their imams are infallible

And when I say Shia's I mean the 12rz, and when I mean that I also mean the ones that KNOWINGLY practice this. I had to emphasise this cause you get the odd crazy person trying to accuse you of placing all Shia's in one boat.

These Shia's also disbelieve in the Divine decree of Allah

Amongst other odd beliefs.

[Spicen]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Shia's believe their imams are infallible

And when I say Shia's I mean the 12rz, and when I mean that I also mean the ones that KNOWINGLY practice this. I had to emphasise this cause you get the odd crazy person trying to accuse you of placing all Shia's in one boat.

These Shia's also disbelieve in the Divine decree of Allah

Amongst other odd beliefs.

I agree mostly except your point about 'Divine Decree'.

Most shias especially young shias believe in Quran.

Can you imagine how confusing it would be for them if they were taught that Quran is not true? Their sect would die off in a few decades

[Spicen]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

he was alive long afterwards

You are ignoring the fact that the old shiaism was Ismaili Shiaism which is different from the modern Imami Shiaism.
The Imami shias to a large extent were invisible for long periods of history. It was Shah Ismail who brought the movement alive.....and forced conversion on Persian sunnis