Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Oh no. Don't try hiding the contemptuous attitude you have for the wives of the Prophet :saw: , it was very clear in your post. None of those incidents are any kind of proof which lower the status of Aisha [May Allah be pleased with her]

Leave it to the shia to flog a dead horse and keep using that story to malign the wives of the Prophet :saw: , whilst ignoring everything else. Whatever mistakes she may have made, does not diminish her standing. Whatever her opinion was regarding suckiling, does not negate her standing in the slightest, that was her view, something the rest of the sahaba did not agree with, and no one follows that particular view and never has.

And frankly, only someone without a brain would actually take seriously the nonsense you find narrated in Shia "hadith". To an unbiased observer, it is obvious which books are trustworthy and reliable and which ones were written by liars and slanderers who had an agenda against the people they invented stories about. Where as we, the people of Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jammah, respect and love all the sahaba, and the household of the Prophet :saw:

We accept hadith's as long as they agree with the Quran and we reject hadith's that contradict the Quran. Simple.

[candyapple]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

You are extremely ignorant my friend. But if were going to speak about an incomplete Quran then hey, check this out;

Umar ibn al Khattab said, Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed him the Book. One of the revelations which came to him was the verse of stoning. We read it and understood it. The Messenger of God stoned and we stoned after him. I am concerned that if time goes on, some one may say ‘ By God we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of God ‘; thus, the Muslims will deviate by neglecting a commandment the Almighty revealed. Al-Bukhari recorded in his Sahih, v8, pages 209-210

According to Umar, there was a verse of stoning revealed when we know there is no verse of stoning, and he's concerned that people will stop stoning because that bit is missing. 3 options here:1) Bukhari isn't sahih 2) Umar is a liar 3) the Quran is actually incomplete. It's obviously the first or the second.

If I were not afraid of the fact that people may say that ‘Umar has added to the Qur’an extra (verses), I would have written the Verse al- Rajm (stoning to death of married adulterers) with my own hands. Sahih al-Bukhari, vol 9, p212.Here, Umar says he would have added the verse with his own hands if he wasn't afraid of the people.

Don't call him a liar. You're the one that has misunderstood.

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...oning.html?m=1

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I'm not degrading Aisha and i'm not lying about her, i'm just stating what our kind Shiekh Bukhari included in his book of hadiths;

Sahih al-Bukhari 5267

" I heard `Aisha saying, "The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stay for a long while with Zanab bint Jahsh and drink honey at her house. So Hafsa and I decided that if the Prophet (ﷺ) came to anyone of us, she should say him, "I detect the smell of Maghafir (a nasty smelling gum) in you. Have you eaten Maghafir?' " So the Prophet (ﷺ) visited one of them and she said to him similarly. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Never mind, I have taken some honey at the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, but I shall never drink of it anymore." So there was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you . . . If you two (wives of Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah,' (66.1-4) addressing Aisha and Hafsa. 'When the Prophet (ﷺ) disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives.' (66.3) namely his saying: But I have taken some honey." "

The intentions behind why you posted it are very clear, and it was to call into question the character of Aisha & Hafsah [May Allah be pleased with them]. You are not fooling anyone here.

[candyapple]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I'm not degrading Aisha and i'm not lying about her, i'm just stating what our kind Shiekh Bukhari included in his book of hadiths;

Sahih al-Bukhari 5267

" I heard `Aisha saying, "The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stay for a long while with Zanab bint Jahsh and drink honey at her house. So Hafsa and I decided that if the Prophet (ﷺ) came to anyone of us, she should say him, "I detect the smell of Maghafir (a nasty smelling gum) in you. Have you eaten Maghafir?' " So the Prophet (ﷺ) visited one of them and she said to him similarly. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Never mind, I have taken some honey at the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, but I shall never drink of it anymore." So there was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you . . . If you two (wives of Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah,' (66.1-4) addressing Aisha and Hafsa. 'When the Prophet (ﷺ) disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives.' (66.3) namely his saying: But I have taken some honey." "

I know about this hadith, and what?

You say you agree with the Quran and Allah defends her chastity in the Quran.

[24:19] “Surely those who love to spread around slander
about those who believe will have a painful punishment in this world and in the
next world; and Allah knows and you do not know.”

So fear Allah. Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam loved her and Allah defended her in the Quran.

[candyapple]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

The intentions behind why you posted it are very clear, and it was to call into question the character of Aisha & Hafsah [May Allah be pleased with them]. You are not fooling anyone here.

He also kept the option of Umar ibn al khattab RA as a liar.

His animosity is seeping through already.

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I know about this hadith, and what?

You say you agree with the Quran and Allah defends her chastity in the Quran.

[24:19] “Surely those who love to spread around slander
about those who believe will have a painful punishment in this world and in the
next world; and Allah knows and you do not know.”

So fear Allah. Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam loved her and Allah defended her in the Quran.

And "those who believe" refers to only Aisha ? is that correct?.

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Well, we believe that the way he was appointed as the caliph was unfair ( The event at Saqifa ).

We also see the importance of the Ahlul Bayt from the hadith of Thaqalayn.

Therefore, who else would have been fitter to guide the muslim ummah other than imam Ali (as), seeing as he was part of ahlul bayt, he was raised in the house hold of the prophet (pbuh), he was the first male to accept islam , the prophet trusted him with Fatima (as).

Brother , what difference does it make after centuries whether Ali or Abu Bakr should have been the Khalifa or not ? They are all dead now.

Will any debate change anything now ?

Though I personally rate Ali ( as ) as highly as well as ahle bayat , but at the same time you cannot deny the contibution of Abu bakr ( Ra ) towards Islam. Look at the life he lead and contrast that with banu Ummayah rulers , Abu Bakr ( ra ) lived at very small amount of money , he fought a lot of battles for Islam , in fact never nominated his own people to any important post.

There is just no reason to doubt the Iman of Badr sahabis , they are the Sabiqoons.

Please do think about this . Its a sincere advice.

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I know about this hadith, and what?

You say you agree with the Quran and Allah defends her chastity in the Quran.

[24:19] “Surely those who love to spread around slander
about those who believe will have a painful punishment in this world and in the
next world; and Allah knows and you do not know.”

So fear Allah. Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam loved her and Allah defended her in the Quran.

That hadeeth is not about chastity , its about the surah tahrim .

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

We accept hadith's as long as they agree with the Quran and we reject hadith's that contradict the Quran. Simple.

Nice story, too bad its false.

You only accept the narration of sahaba that you deem to be loyal to Ali & Ahlul Bayt, the rest of them you reject. You won't be finding narrations from Umar, Uthman, Talha, Zubayr, Aisha, Hafsah, Um Habiba, Abu Hurraira, Ibn Umar,Anas Ibn Malik, Amr ibn Al Aas [may Allah be pleased with them]

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Brother , what difference does it make after centuries whether Ali or Abu Bakr should have been the Khalifa or not ? They are all dead now.

Will any debate change anything now ?

Though I personally rate Ali ( as ) as highly as well as ahle bayat , but at the same time you cannot deny the contibution of Abu bakr ( Ra ) towards Islam. Look at the life he lead and contrast that with banu Ummayah rulers , Abu Bakr ( ra ) lived at very small amount of money , he fought a lot of battles for Islam , in fact never nominated his own people to any important post.

There is just no reason to doubt the Iman of Badr sahabis , they are the Sabiqoons.

Please do think about this . Its a sincere advice.

Does him never nominating his own people to any important post's exclude him appointing Umar as his successor?.

"And do not say of those who are slain in the way of Allah that they are dead. Instead, they are alive, but you perceive not." (2:154)

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Brother , what difference does it make after centuries whether Ali or Abu Bakr should have been the Khalifa or not ? They are all dead now.

Will any debate change anything now ?

Though I personally rate Ali ( as ) as highly as well as ahle bayat , but at the same time you cannot deny the contibution of Abu bakr ( Ra ) towards Islam. Look at the life he lead and contrast that with banu Ummayah rulers , Abu Bakr ( ra ) lived at very small amount of money , he fought a lot of battles for Islam , in fact never nominated his own people to any important post.

There is just no reason to doubt the Iman of Badr sahabis , they are the Sabiqoons.

Please do think about this . Its a sincere advice.

It matters to them, they will until the day of Judgement, insist upon the idea that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman usurped the Khilafah from Ali, that they and the majority of sahaba that supported their Khilafah did nothing, inspite of supposedly having heard the Prophet :saw: affirm Ali as the next leader. The mere suggestion is an open slander against the honour of most of the sahaba,

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Nice story, too bad its false.

You only accept the narration of sahaba that you deem to be loyal to Ali & Ahlul Bayt, the rest of them you reject. You won't be finding narrations from Umar, Uthman, Talha, Zubayr, Aisha, Hafsah, Um Habiba, Abu Hurraira, Ibn Umar,Anas Ibn Malik, Amr ibn Al Aas [may Allah be pleased with them]

That is true, we reject hadith's from people we deem to be enemies of Ahlul Bayt.

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Does him never nominating his own people to any important post's exclude him appointing Umar as his successor?.

"And do not say of those who are slain in the way of Allah that they are dead. Instead, they are alive, but you perceive not." (2:154)

He consulted with other major sahaba, before he appointed him, and it was the best decision he could have made because the rule of Umar was a blessing and mercy for the entire Ummah, though no doubt you Shia would claim otherwise.

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

He consulted with other major sahaba, before he appointed him, and it was the best decision he could have made because the rule of Umar was a blessing and mercy for the entire Ummah, though no doubt you Shia would claim otherwise.

There's no but's or middle ground, did Abu Bakr appoint Umar as his successor, yes/no?.

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

That is true, we reject hadith's from people we deem to be enemies of Ahlul Bayt.

And thank you for proving my point, you deem all those sahaba i mentioned as enemies of Ahlul Bayt. Too bad your own Imams did not agree with that, otherwise they would not be naming their children Abu Bakr, or Umar or Uthman.