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Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

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  • #46
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Foodadad View Post
    Shi'ism has become far more than just 'who deserves to be khalifah', and you know it. If you know enough to say that's where it might have began, then you also know what it has become over time (and not very much time I might add, though they are still changing e.g. mat'am is recent iirc), and exactly what I am talking about. Don't try to deflect the conversation by bringing in people we aren't talking about.
    Funnily enough, even in the time of Ali RA himself there were those who wanted to worship him.
    Assalamualalikum :)
    People we aren't talking about? which one? not all sunni are good Muslim (example: wahabi in Saudi Arabia). and not all Syiah are bad. this one?
    If this is is what you talking about, my answer is: there are lot of Shiah and Sunni. Not all of Shiah are bad and not all of Sunni are good Muslim.I believe Shiah who worship Ali RA is the bad Syiah and Kafir but who worship Allah and believe Prophet Muhammad SAW is the last messenger are good Shiah and I consider them as my brother and sister. :)

    It is all about politics, If it is not because of Politic why Iran protect Palestine? Why Saudi Arabia don't do anything in Gaza and afraid of Israel?
    Good Shiah didn't hate Sunni, that's why they protect Palestine. World of Sunni is not 100% good there are lot of bad people in Sunni.

    I read history In the golden age of Islam when Baghdad (Shiah Majority) as the city of knowledge this issue is not "hot" at all. They live peacefully and respect each other opinion. This issue getting "hotter" after Israel invade Palestine.

    Allahu Alam.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

      Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
      Youre speaking about the followers of Abdullah ibn Saba and they have nothing to do with Shia's theyre completely ghulut and misguided.

      We dont worship Ali thank you very much, we worship Allah and Allah alone. I think I know more about my belief's than you do.
      You are Muslim and you are my brother. :) I am Sunni. :)
      There are many bad Sunni and Shiah. Zionist propaganda show Sunni, the bad shiah, and I believe they show Shiah the bad Sunni. it is Dajjal deception. Some Sunni and Shiah didn't realize it.

      Allahu Alam

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

        Originally posted by rahmat89 View Post
        You are Muslim and you are my brother. :) I am Sunni. :)
        There are many bad Sunni and Shiah. Zionist propaganda show Sunni, the bad shiah, and I believe they show Shiah the bad Sunni. it is Dajjal deception. Some Sunni and Shiah didn't realize it.

        Allahu Alam
        :inlove:

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

          Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
          Well, we believe that the way he was appointed as the caliph was unfair ( The event at Saqifa ).



          We also see the importance of the Ahlul Bayt from the hadith of Thaqalayn.

          Therefore, who else would have been fitter to guide the muslim ummah other than imam Ali (as), seeing as he was part of ahlul bayt, he was raised in the house hold of the prophet (pbuh), he was the first male to accept islam , the prophet trusted him with Fatima (as).
          We love Ali RA. No doubt. And Ali RA did not fight abu bakr nor was he displeased with the caliphate of Abu Bakr

          And if you choose to see his resume, you would also know that abu bakr was rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam's closest friend and the father of the only virgin wife of Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam's

          You would also know rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam opined abu bakr to lead the prayers when rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam fell terminally ill therefore hinting abu bakr take the leadership after him.

          You would also know abu bakr is the second of the two in the cave during hijrah.

          Not saying Ali wasn't doing a worthy job meanwhile, but Abu bakr was qualified to take the Khalifa when he did

          And rest assured you believe in Allah's qadr so you would know it was qadrullah that abu bakr took the Khalifah when he did

          Most importantly Ali was ok with it.
          "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

          "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

            Originally posted by rahmat89 View Post
            You are Muslim and you are my brother. :) I am Sunni. :)
            There are many bad Sunni and Shiah. Zionist propaganda show Sunni, the bad shiah, and I believe they show Shiah the bad Sunni. it is Dajjal deception. Some Sunni and Shiah didn't realize it.

            Allahu Alam

            Read his post which disrespects Ummul Mumineen Aisha & Hafsah [May Allah be pleased with them] and then come back and say this guy is your "brother"
            Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

            How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

            Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

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            • #51
              Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

              Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
              Firstly, in the Quran al kareem, we see in Surat At-Tahrim, Allah state's

              "Allah presents an example of those who disbelieved: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were under two of Our righteous servants but betrayed them, so those prophets did not avail them from Allah at all, and it was said, "Enter the Fire with those who enter." " - 66:10.

              I believe that within this ayat, Allah is clearly stating that the wives of Prophet's are not guaranteed a place in Jannah simply because they married a Prophet, but instead their place in Jannah is based on merit and good deed. From this ayat we have established that being the wife of a Prophet does not exempt you from tests and punishments which other believers face.

              Now if we go to Sahih al-Bukhari 5267, we will find the so called story of 'maghafir' which is this,

              " I heard `Aisha saying, "The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stay for a long while with Zanab bint Jahsh and drink honey at her house. So Hafsa and I decided that if the Prophet (ﷺ) came to anyone of us, she should say him, "I detect the smell of Maghafir (a nasty smelling gum) in you. Have you eaten Maghafir?' " So the Prophet (ﷺ) visited one of them and she said to him similarly. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Never mind, I have taken some honey at the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, but I shall never drink of it anymore." So there was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you . . . If you two (wives of Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah,' (66.1-4) addressing Aisha and Hafsa. 'When the Prophet (ﷺ) disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives.' (66.3) namely his saying: But I have taken some honey." "

              This story is also found in Sahih Muslim1474 a ;

              I and Hafsa agreed that one whom Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) would visit first should say: I notice that you have an odour of the Maghafir (gum of mimosa). He (the Holy Prophet) visited one of them and she said to him like this, whereupon he said: I have taken honey in the house of Zainab bint Jabsh and I will never do it again. It was at this (that the following verse was revealed): 'Why do you hold to be forbidden what Allah has made lawful for you... (up to). If you both ('A'isha and Hafsa) turn to Allah" up to:" And when the Prophet confided an information to one of his wives" (lxvi. 3). This refers to his saying: But I have taken honey.

              I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that this ill mannered behavior is unacceptable, especially toward's the RasoolAllah (pbuh). How can one, tell the Prophet (pbuh) that he smells of a nasty smelling gum?. I believe that this hadith shows the bad nature of both Aisha and Hafsa. Keep in mind that this is not a fabricated-made up hadith, it is 'Sahih Bukhari'. Furthermore, if we move one hadith forward in Sahih Bukhari to 'Sahih al-Bukhari 5268', look at what we find.

              Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was fond of honey and sweet edible things and (it was his habit) that after finishing the `Asr prayer he would visit his wives and stay with one of them at that time. Once he went to Hafsa, the daughter of `Umar and stayed with her more than usual. I got jealous and asked the reason for that. I was told that a lady of her folk had given her a skin filled with honey as a present, and that she made a syrup from it and gave it to the Prophet (ﷺ) to drink (and that was the reason for the delay). I said, "By Allah we will play a trick on him (to prevent him from doing so)." So I said to Sa`da bint Zam`a "The Prophet (ﷺ) will approach you, and when he comes near you, say: 'Have you taken Maghafir (a bad-smelling gum)?' He will say, 'No.' Then say to him: 'Then what is this bad smell which i smell from you?' He will say to you, 'Hafsa made me drink honey syrup.' Then say: Perhaps the bees of that honey had sucked the juice of the tree of Al-`Urfut.' I shall also say the same. O you, Safiyya, say the same." Later Sa`da said, "By Allah, as soon as he (the Prophet (ﷺ) ) stood at the door, I was about to say to him what you had ordered me to say because I was afraid of you." So when the Prophet (ﷺ) came near Sa`da, she said to him, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Have you taken Maghafir?" He said, "No." She said. "Then what is this bad smell which I detect on you?" He said, "Hafsa made me drink honey syrup." She said, "Perhaps its bees had sucked the juice of Al-`Urfut tree." When he came to me, I also said the same, and when he went to Safiyya, she also said the same. And when the Prophet (ﷺ) again went to Hafsa, she said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall I give you more of that drink?" He said, "I am not in need of it." Sa`da said, "By Allah, we deprived him (of it)." I said to her, "Keep quiet." '

              Oh look, how shocking, its the story of maghafir repeated again but this time it's only Aisha, being jealous of Hafsa her previous partner in crime and this time she scheme's with Sa'da and Safiyya, to play a trick on RasoolAllah (pbuh) again by telling him that he smells of maghafir. What does this tell us about somebodies akhlaq to be getting this rude to the Prophet (pbuh), who's supposed to be the best and the kindest of people. Also reread the last word's that Aisha uttered, " I said to her, "Keep quiet" " expecting the prophet to never find out about their scheme's. However, Allah the all knowing later revealed this ayat to Muhammed (pbuh) ;

              And [remember] when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Acquainted." - 66:3

              Surat at Tahrim was one of the final 10 verses of the Quran that were revealed, therefore meaning that the Prophet (pbuh) had been receiving revelations from Allah for the past 20 year's or so and his wife as stated in the Quran still asked "Who told you this?" when he found out that she informed other of a statement that he confided to her.

              Now let us see what Allah states in the Quran about how the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) are expected to act and what their punishment's are for acting unjustly/wrongly.

              O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality - for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah , easy.. - 33:30

              Here , Allah clearly state's how the punishment of a wife of the Prophet (pbuh) for committing an immorality is double that of a regular woman. This is due to the fact that she is living under the house hold of the Prophet and should be setting an example for other women, she also get's the benefit of living under the household the revelation.

              Also, all of the wifes of the prophet's are the mothers of the believers. All it mean's is that after the prophet dies nobody else can marry her as she is like their mothers now.

              That is unless you believe she is the mother of believers because of this hadith:

              Ref: Sahih Muslim, book 8, hadith number 3426, page 846.

              ...A'isha took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her. She ordered daughters of her sisters and brothers to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, refused to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'
              That sums you shia up. You'll use stories from the Sunnah, when its convenient in your agenda to malign the sahaba,m but will ignore the rest of them, because we have clear narrations about the virtues of Aisha and that she is the most beloved wife of the Prophet :saw: after Khadijah [May Allah be pleased with them] and the fact the time the Prophet :saw: was considering divorcing Hafsah, until Jibrail alayhis salaam came down and told the Prophet :saw: that Allah has commanded he stay married to her and that she will be his wife in this world and the next.

              That is the mentality of shia. They take these stories to attack the character of the sahaba they have emnity towards.The sahaba made mistakes, did sins, but the difference is, they repented from their actions and Allah has already forgiven them and has said he is pleased with them all.

              It didn't take long to expose yourself did it? You come in here saying you do not curse the sahaba, but it doesn't take much to show the enmity towards them you have by the manner in which you speak about them.
              Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

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              • #52
                Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                Originally posted by rahmat89 View Post
                Assalamualalikum :)
                People we aren't talking about? which one? not all sunni are good Muslim (example: wahabi in Saudi Arabia). and not all Syiah are bad. this one?
                If this is is what you talking about, my answer is: there are lot of Shiah and Sunni. Not all of Shiah are bad and not all of Sunni are good Muslim.I believe Shiah who worship Ali RA is the bad Syiah and Kafir but who worship Allah and believe Prophet Muhammad SAW is the last messenger are good Shiah and I consider them as my brother and sister. :)

                It is all about politics, If it is not because of Politic why Iran protect Palestine? Why Saudi Arabia don't do anything in Gaza and afraid of Israel?
                Good Shiah didn't hate Sunni, that's why they protect Palestine. World of Sunni is not 100% good there are lot of bad people in Sunni.

                I read history In the golden age of Islam when Baghdad (Shiah Majority) as the city of knowledge this issue is not "hot" at all. They live peacefully and respect each other opinion. This issue getting "hotter" after Israel invade Palestine.

                Allahu Alam.
                Baghdad shia majority? Lol. The shia, for your information, sided with the mongols during their invasion. Guess which city never recovered? Your friends also went mad in Iraq when they were given governance by the US more recently, with their genocide, death squads etc. What, did you think IS came from space suddenly, for no reason?

                What has Iran tangibly done recently?

                And there are 'good' ahmedis as well, no doubt. Are they your brothers as well? The shia indirectly insult Rasul Allah :saw:, through their twisted logic. Just look how hard your 'brother' tries to discredit his :saw: beloved wives, your mothers and mine.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                  Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                  That sums you shia up. You'll use stories from the Sunnah, when its convenient in your agenda to malign the sahaba,m but will ignore the rest of them, because we have clear narrations about the virtues of Aisha and that she is the most beloved wife of the Prophet :saw: after Khadijah [May Allah be pleased with them] and the fact the time the Prophet :saw: was considering divorcing Hafsah, until Jibrail alayhis salaam came down and told the Prophet :saw: that Allah has commanded he stay married to her and that she will be his wife in this world and the next.

                  That is the mentality of shia. They take these stories to attack the character of the sahaba they have emnity towards.The sahaba made mistakes, did sins, but the difference is, they repented from their actions and Allah has already forgiven them and has said he is pleased with them all.

                  It didn't take long to expose yourself did it? You come in here saying you do not curse the sahaba, but it doesn't take much to show the enmity towards them you have by the manner in which you speak about them.
                  There is a distinct difference between cursing someone, and deriving an opinion on qualities of a person through hadith's which our brother's from ahlul sunnah revere as Sahih.
                  I don't curse, but instead try to show how Aisha was not the best of female's using your own hadith's.

                  You are correct in the fact that we do not accept Sunni hadith's such as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, however, would you accept hadith's on Aisha from Shia sources?, no you wouldn't and that is the reason why I attempt to use Sunni hadith's to support my point's.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
                    Youre speaking about the followers of Abdullah ibn Saba and they have nothing to do with Shia's theyre completely ghulut and misguided.

                    We dont worship Ali thank you very much, we worship Allah and Allah alone. I think I know more about my belief's than you do.
                    I was telling him that your cult isn't so simple to have just been a political difference, even at the start. I didn't even mention you, I don't know which flavor you follow...the one where imams control every atom in the universe and are greater than Prophets, the one where the Qur'an is incomplete or Gibreel :as: made a mistake, the one where all but like 4 Sahaba RA apostated or were munafiqeen, or perhaps some mixture of these.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                      Originally posted by Foodadad View Post
                      Baghdad shia majority? Lol. The shia, for your information, sided with the mongols during their invasion. Guess which city never recovered? Your friends also went mad in Iraq when they were given governance by the US more recently, with their genocide, death squads etc. What, did you think IS came from space suddenly, for no reason?

                      What has Iran tangibly done recently?

                      And there are 'good' ahmedis as well, no doubt. Are they your brothers as well? The shia indirectly insult Rasul Allah :saw:, through their twisted logic. Just look how hard your 'brother' tries to discredit his :saw: beloved wives, your mothers and mine.
                      I'm sorry but could you please point out to me how the Shia indirectly insult Rasul Allah (PBUH) ?.

                      The Quran clearly states "And indeed, you are of a great moral character." - 68:4 , therefore why would we even try to insult the prophet(pbuh) if the holy Quran states Muhammeds(pbuh) great moral character.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                        Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
                        There is a distinct difference between cursing someone, and deriving an opinion on qualities of a person through hadith's which our brother's from ahlul sunnah revere as Sahih.
                        I don't curse, but instead try to show how Aisha was not the best of female's using your own hadith's.

                        You are correct in the fact that we do not accept Sunni hadith's such as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, however, would you accept hadith's on Aisha from Shia sources?, no you wouldn't and that is the reason why I attempt to use Sunni hadith's to support my point's.
                        You know people like you who come and degrade A'isha are mentioned in the Quran for the munafiq lied about her too and Allah cleared her name in the Quran. So if you prefer to risk indulging in degoratory views about her that is to your own detriment.
                        "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                        "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                          Originally posted by Foodadad View Post
                          I was telling him that your cult isn't so simple to have just been a political difference, even at the start. I didn't even mention you, I don't know which flavor you follow...the one where imams control every atom in the universe and are greater than Prophets, the one where the Qur'an is incomplete or Gibreel :as: made a mistake, the one where all but like 4 Sahaba RA apostated or were munafiqeen, or perhaps some mixture of these.
                          You are extremely ignorant my friend. But if were going to speak about an incomplete Quran then hey, check this out;

                          Umar ibn al Khattab said, Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed him the Book. One of the revelations which came to him was the verse of stoning. We read it and understood it. The Messenger of God stoned and we stoned after him. I am concerned that if time goes on, some one may say ‘ By God we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of God ‘; thus, the Muslims will deviate by neglecting a commandment the Almighty revealed. Al-Bukhari recorded in his Sahih, v8, pages 209-210

                          According to Umar, there was a verse of stoning revealed when we know there is no verse of stoning, and he's concerned that people will stop stoning because that bit is missing. 3 options here:1) Bukhari isn't sahih 2) Umar is a liar 3) the Quran is actually incomplete. It's obviously the first or the second.

                          If I were not afraid of the fact that people may say that ‘Umar has added to the Qur’an extra (verses), I would have written the Verse al- Rajm (stoning to death of married adulterers) with my own hands. Sahih al-Bukhari, vol 9, p212.Here, Umar says he would have added the verse with his own hands if he wasn't afraid of the people.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                            Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
                            I'm sorry but could you please point out to me how the Shia indirectly insult Rasul Allah (PBUH) ?.

                            The Quran clearly states "And indeed, you are of a great moral character." - 68:4 , therefore why would we even try to insult the prophet(pbuh) if the holy Quran states Muhammeds(pbuh) great moral character.
                            By degrading his wife. Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam loved A'isha and it is in sahih al Bukhari that you love to quote.

                            *Narrated 'Amr bin Al-As: The Prophet deputed me to read the Army of Dhat-as-Salasil. I came to him and said, "Who is the most beloved person to you?" He said, " 'Aisha." I asked, "Among the men?" He said, "Her father." I said, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar bin Al-Khattab." He then named other men. *

                            So the people you dislike are loved by rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wassallam hence you indirectly insult him.
                            "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                            "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                              Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
                              There is a distinct difference between cursing someone, and deriving an opinion on qualities of a person through hadith's which our brother's from ahlul sunnah revere as Sahih.
                              I don't curse, but instead try to show how Aisha was not the best of female's using your own hadith's.

                              You are correct in the fact that we do not accept Sunni hadith's such as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, however, would you accept hadith's on Aisha from Shia sources?, no you wouldn't and that is the reason why I attempt to use Sunni hadith's to support my point's.

                              Oh no. Don't try hiding the contemptuous attitude you have for the wives of the Prophet :saw: , it was very clear in your post. None of those incidents are any kind of proof which lower the status of Aisha [May Allah be pleased with her]

                              Leave it to the shia to flog a dead horse and keep using that story to malign the wives of the Prophet :saw: , whilst ignoring everything else. Whatever mistakes she may have made, does not diminish her standing. Whatever her opinion was regarding suckiling, does not negate her standing in the slightest, that was her view, something the rest of the sahaba did not agree with, and no one follows that particular view and never has.

                              And frankly, only someone without a brain would actually take seriously the nonsense you find narrated in Shia "hadith". To an unbiased observer, it is obvious which books are trustworthy and reliable and which ones were written by liars and slanderers who had an agenda against the people they invented stories about. Where as we, the people of Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jammah, respect and love all the sahaba, and the household of the Prophet :saw:
                              Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                              How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                              Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

                                Originally posted by candyapple View Post
                                You know people like you who come and degrade A'isha are mentioned in the Quran for the munafiq lied about her too and Allah cleared her name in the Quran. So if you prefer to risk indulging in degoratory views about her that is to your own detriment.
                                I'm not degrading Aisha and i'm not lying about her, i'm just stating what our kind Shiekh Bukhari included in his book of hadiths;

                                Sahih al-Bukhari 5267

                                " I heard `Aisha saying, "The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stay for a long while with Zanab bint Jahsh and drink honey at her house. So Hafsa and I decided that if the Prophet (ﷺ) came to anyone of us, she should say him, "I detect the smell of Maghafir (a nasty smelling gum) in you. Have you eaten Maghafir?' " So the Prophet (ﷺ) visited one of them and she said to him similarly. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Never mind, I have taken some honey at the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, but I shall never drink of it anymore." So there was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you . . . If you two (wives of Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah,' (66.1-4) addressing Aisha and Hafsa. 'When the Prophet (ﷺ) disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives.' (66.3) namely his saying: But I have taken some honey." "

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