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Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

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  • rahmat89
    replied
    assalamualaikum..
    okay so we have different opinion :)

    my answer for it, is: not all sunni are good Muslim (example: wahabi in Saudi Arabia). and not all Syiah are bad.

    I know in Islamic history Ali bin Abu thalib R.A. get angry to some people who think He deserve to be khalifah more than Abu Bakar R.A., Umar RA, Utsman RA. but He still think they are Muslim. Am I right? Abu Bakar RA still think they are Muslim right?

    2 different opinion about who deserve to be the khalifah Ali R.A. or Abu bakar R.A. that is the history behind sunny and shiah right? Correct me if I was wrong. thank you :)

    allahu alam.

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
    That's a misguided offshoot of Shiism . Really instead of debating with these so called 'Shia' friends that you have and instead of looking up extinct sects in Shiism and making up rumours , just ask me questions and il be happy to answer truthfully.

    May god bless you all.
    They're not my friends. Let's clear that up.

    Ok I do have a question.

    Why do you disagree on the caliphate of Abu Bakr?

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
    I don't curse aisha but I disagree with her and the nobility that Sunnis place upon her.

    I really don't know who you were debating with but they are definitely not imami Shias if they gave you the impression that Gabriel was actually meant to reveal the message to imam Ali. Because in our belief , there is only 1 God and that is Allah , Muhammed is his message and then his progeny (ahlul bayt) which are also our12 imams helped guide the Muslims after the death of the prophet.

    Ayatollah khaimeini made a fatwa outlawing the cursing of um Al momineen Aisha and the Sahaba of the prophet .
    You may not curse A'isha but alot of Shia's do and they make no discretion about it. Also if you aren't condemning a fellow shiite to stop with the insults (if they ever do it infront of you) then you are a part of that package aren't you if you remain neutral when they start cursing.

    But if you do condemn their offensive behaviour then that's good.

    I don't have much respect for the shias I have debated with. These guys are very very ill.

    Also you speak of Imamate. If you believe your imams are infallible then that itself is absolutely haraam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foodadad
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by rahmat89 View Post
    assalamualaikum.

    Gaza is sunni but Shiah from Iran who protect them the most not Saudi Arabia (sunni) or Egypt (sunni). I never meet any shiah before, but as long as they believe in allah and prophet Muhammad SAW as final messenger. I consider them as my brother and sister. If there are lot of difference in Sunni and Syiah I think we should discuss it as brother and sister. Discuss nicely and find the solution.

    I believe Sunni vs Syiah is Zionist propaganda to spread hate among Muslim.

    Allahu alam.
    I will never consider someone who makes lies against the mothers of the believers, and the greatest sahaba + closest friends, advisors, and confidants, to be my brother/sister. Fiqhi difference is one thing, destructive deviance is another. Trust me, the sunni shia "divide" is not just some propaganda. 'Practicing' Sunnis and 'practicing' Shias, for the most part, are irreconcilable.

    Leave a comment:


  • rahmat89
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus_ View Post
    Why is there a divide in Islam? What are the differences? Is Gaza sunni or shi'ite?
    assalamualaikum.

    Gaza is sunni but Shiah from Iran who protect them the most not Saudi Arabia (sunni) or Egypt (sunni). I never meet any shiah before, but as long as they believe in allah and prophet Muhammad SAW as final messenger. I consider them as my brother and sister. If there are lot of difference in Sunni and Syiah I think we should discuss it as brother and sister. Discuss nicely and find the solution.

    I believe Sunni vs Syiah is Zionist propaganda to spread hate among Muslim.

    Allahu alam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Musa Sadr
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by candyapple View Post
    The Ghurabiyya Shia had the following beliefs:

    They believed God’s knowledge is temporally produced.

    They believed God does not know anything until after he creates it.

    They believed God may change his mind about matters just like a person who acquires one opinion after another. This belief was an extreme form of*Bada’They believed that Ali was supposed to be the*Messenger*and*Prophet*of God.

    They believed that God dispatched the angel Gabriel to Ali and had ordered him to take the*Qur'an*to Ali, but Gabriel turned away from him with the message and went to Muhammad due to his enthusiasm for him, or by mistake on his part due to being confused by the exact similitude between Muhammad and Ali and (consciously or not) is said to have revealed and transmitted the Qur'anic message to Muhammad instead of to Ali.*When Gabriel returned to God, God said, “Were it not that the*Quraysh*would say that the Lord of Muhammad is irresolute, I would send you to Ali once again and I would dismiss Muhammad. But go instead back to Muhammad and tell him I am appointing Ali to share prophecy with him as long as both shall live, and say: “but you are only a warner (i.e. Muhammad) and for every nation there is a guide (i.e. Ali).” When Gabriel came back to Muhammad and informed him of the message of God, Muhammad said to Ali at that moment, “You are to me in the position of Harun (Aaron) to Musa (Moses) except that there will not be a prophet after me.”They believed that Muhammad was a warner and Ali was a guide by drawing upon further support from the words of God in the Qur'an: “Can they be like those who accept a clear sign from their Lord and there follows him (i.e Muhammad) a witness (i.e. Ali) from Him.“They believed they were justified in cursing Gabriel, for the reason of Gabriel going to Muhammad instead of Ali.

    They believed that it had been verified in a report that Ali was the partner of Muhammad in prophecy during his lifetime just as Aaron was the partner of Moses in the apostleship. For that reason Muhammad said, “No prophet after me” but did not say, “no prophet alongside me,” since Gabriel visited them both together with the revelation.

    They believed that when Muhammad died, the inspiration was withdrawn from Ali.They believed that the*Imamate*is only restricted to the offspring of Ali.

    They believed that the descendents of Fatimah*and the other descendents of Ali all have an equal right to the Imamate.

    They believed the descendents of Ali are from the lineages of 5 people:*Hasan ibn Ali,*Husayn ibn Ali, Umar, al-Abbas and Muhammad.They believed that the Imam is anyone who rises from among the descendents of Ali with sword unsheathed, summoning to the Qur'an and the*Sunnah*of Muhammad and who is just and knowledgeable.



    Naudhubillah
    That's a misguided offshoot of Shiism . Really instead of debating with these so called 'Shia' friends that you have and instead of looking up extinct sects in Shiism and making up rumours , just ask me questions and il be happy to answer truthfully.

    May god bless you all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Musa Sadr
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by candyapple View Post
    If you personally don't believe such that's fine.

    But I have debated with shias and it's come from their mouths. Weather the jibreel situation was just a personal take from the Shia I was debating with I don't know, but the impression I had was that they believed it as a group.

    And as for the story of A'isha and the goat you can deny that til your face turns blue. I know that the talk amongst the 12rz. I really couldn't careless if you're denying it. I spoke to them so I would know. Also to add to this story they believe the missing parts contained crucial verses that support the shiite view.

    Next thing you're gunna say is shias never insult A'isha, right? It all falls under the same category.
    I don't curse aisha but I disagree with her and the nobility that Sunnis place upon her.

    I really don't know who you were debating with but they are definitely not imami Shias if they gave you the impression that Gabriel was actually meant to reveal the message to imam Ali. Because in our belief , there is only 1 God and that is Allah , Muhammed is his message and then his progeny (ahlul bayt) which are also our12 imams helped guide the Muslims after the death of the prophet.

    Ayatollah khaimeini made a fatwa outlawing the cursing of um Al momineen Aisha and the Sahaba of the prophet .

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    The Ghurabiyya Shia had the following beliefs:

    They believed God’s knowledge is temporally produced.

    They believed God does not know anything until after he creates it.

    They believed God may change his mind about matters just like a person who acquires one opinion after another. This belief was an extreme form of*Bada’They believed that Ali was supposed to be the*Messenger*and*Prophet*of God.

    They believed that God dispatched the angel Gabriel to Ali and had ordered him to take the*Qur'an*to Ali, but Gabriel turned away from him with the message and went to Muhammad due to his enthusiasm for him, or by mistake on his part due to being confused by the exact similitude between Muhammad and Ali and (consciously or not) is said to have revealed and transmitted the Qur'anic message to Muhammad instead of to Ali.*When Gabriel returned to God, God said, “Were it not that the*Quraysh*would say that the Lord of Muhammad is irresolute, I would send you to Ali once again and I would dismiss Muhammad. But go instead back to Muhammad and tell him I am appointing Ali to share prophecy with him as long as both shall live, and say: “but you are only a warner (i.e. Muhammad) and for every nation there is a guide (i.e. Ali).” When Gabriel came back to Muhammad and informed him of the message of God, Muhammad said to Ali at that moment, “You are to me in the position of Harun (Aaron) to Musa (Moses) except that there will not be a prophet after me.”They believed that Muhammad was a warner and Ali was a guide by drawing upon further support from the words of God in the Qur'an: “Can they be like those who accept a clear sign from their Lord and there follows him (i.e Muhammad) a witness (i.e. Ali) from Him.“They believed they were justified in cursing Gabriel, for the reason of Gabriel going to Muhammad instead of Ali.

    They believed that it had been verified in a report that Ali was the partner of Muhammad in prophecy during his lifetime just as Aaron was the partner of Moses in the apostleship. For that reason Muhammad said, “No prophet after me” but did not say, “no prophet alongside me,” since Gabriel visited them both together with the revelation.

    They believed that when Muhammad died, the inspiration was withdrawn from Ali.They believed that the*Imamate*is only restricted to the offspring of Ali.

    They believed that the descendents of Fatimah*and the other descendents of Ali all have an equal right to the Imamate.

    They believed the descendents of Ali are from the lineages of 5 people:*Hasan ibn Ali,*Husayn ibn Ali, Umar, al-Abbas and Muhammad.They believed that the Imam is anyone who rises from among the descendents of Ali with sword unsheathed, summoning to the Qur'an and the*Sunnah*of Muhammad and who is just and knowledgeable.



    Naudhubillah

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    Salam Musa Sadr,
    Youre here. As i said in an earlier in a post, she probably heard it from a Yassiri Shia or Akhbari Shia.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghurabiya

    I think it was this group.

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
    Salam Spicen,

    But even a Yassiri Shia wouldn't make such claims that the angel jibraeel came to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) by mistake (a3oothabillah). I dont really know about Akhbari Shias, I believe that imami/twelever is the true and original representative of Shiism seeing as it makes up over 90% of Shia's.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghurabiya

    There you go. I wasn't lying in any case.

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
    The most ridiculous thing's I have ever heard!. The point's you are making are an insult to me and to Shia's as a whole.

    Yes we do disagree with the first 3 caliph's.

    No we do not believe that Allah meant to give prophet to Ali but jibreel mistakenly gave it to rasulullah, this is complete false and not once have I ever heard any of our imams or scholars say this.

    We do not believe that the Quran is missing, and our imam's clearly stated the completeness as well as the infallibility of the Quran.
    If you personally don't believe such that's fine.

    But I have debated with shias and it's come from their mouths. Weather the jibreel situation was just a personal take from the Shia I was debating with I don't know, but the impression I had was that they believed it as a group.

    And as for the story of A'isha and the goat you can deny that til your face turns blue. I know that the talk amongst the 12rz. I really couldn't careless if you're denying it. I spoke to them so I would know. Also to add to this story they believe the missing parts contained crucial verses that support the shiite view.

    Next thing you're gunna say is shias never insult A'isha, right? It all falls under the same category.

    Leave a comment:


  • candyapple
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    I think you confused the mainstream usooli shia with these shia: http://akhbari.org/English/index.htm

    Akhbari shia are a minority among shia and only they display their (heretic) believes openly. There are differences between the two groups.
    I think you debated with them and not the mainstream
    Possibly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taboo
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    You are ignoring the fact that
    i didn't even speak about him, you did, so i am ignoring the conversation that you are having with yourself.

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    I agree mostly except your point about 'Divine Decree'.

    Most shias especially young shias believe in Quran.

    Can you imagine how confusing it would be for them if they were taught that Quran is not true? Their sect would die off in a few decades
    you can believe in quran without believing in divine decree. people pick and choose ayat and defend those choices even when faced with truth. and imami shias are taught that the quran was tampered with and not in it's original form, btw.

    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
    We do not believe that the Quran is missing, and our imam's clearly stated the completeness as well as the infallibility of the Quran.
    there are shii ahadith and fatwa that state otherwise

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    And you have to provide me solid evidence about it. No wahabi/salafi sites please.
    this is pure ignorance to accept opinions from imamites, but not from legitimate scholars that are recognised by all of the sects even if they disagree on some things. their opinions are derived from the same texts and their opinion is just as valid.
    Last edited by Taboo; 01-05-15, 05:00 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Musa Sadr
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    Salam Musa Sadr,
    Youre here. As i said in an earlier in a post, she probably heard it from a Yassiri Shia or Akhbari Shia.
    Salam Spicen,

    But even a Yassiri Shia wouldn't make such claims that the angel jibraeel came to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) by mistake (a3oothabillah). I dont really know about Akhbari Shias, I believe that imami/twelever is the true and original representative of Shiism seeing as it makes up over 90% of Shia's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spicen
    replied
    Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

    Originally posted by Musa Sadr View Post
    The most ridiculous thing's I have ever heard!. The point's you are making are an insult to me and to Shia's as a whole.

    Yes we do disagree with the first 3 caliph's.

    No we do not believe that Allah meant to give prophet to Ali but jibreel mistakenly gave it to rasulullah, this is complete false and not once have I ever heard any of our imams or scholars say this.

    We do not believe that the Quran is missing, and our imam's clearly stated the completeness as well as the infallibility of the Quran.

    However take a look at this : In Sahih al Bukhari Volume 8, pages 209-210, we read this sermon delivered by Hadhrath Umar during his last Hajj as Khalifa:

    "Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with the truth, and revealed to him the Book. One of the revelations which came to him was the verse of stoning. We read it and understood it”.

    "The Messenger of God stoned and we stoned after him. I am concerned that if time goes on, someone may say, 'By God, we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of God;' thus, the Muslims will deviate by neglecting a commandment the Almighty revealed.”

    "Stoning is in the Book of God. It is the right punishment for a person who commits adultery if the required witnesses are available, or there was pregnancy without marriage or adultery is admitted."

    However , where is the surat on stoning now?.
    Salam Musa Sadr,
    Youre here. As i said in an earlier in a post, she probably heard it from a Yassiri Shia or Akhbari Shia.

    Leave a comment:

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