Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

And what might these 'evil' beliefs be?.

Could you please quote me the exact verse in the Quran which praises Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman speaking about how righteous they are?.

Where was Ahlul Sunnah when the Shia's as well as the Kurd's of Iraq were getting massacred by Saddam Hussein?.

However unlike you I completely condemn the way the Iraqi government treated the Sunni's, its unfair to treat citizens of a country as second class citizens as everybody deserves equal right's.

Allah Hafiz.

The Quran is not roll call book , it does not have list of People praised or criticized.

It mentions Hypocrites also , and Quran says even prophet does not know them.

Who can give you such lists ?

The thing that Allah ( swt ) mentions clearly is that we cannot doubt the Sabiqoons. Abu Bakr / Umar were sabiqoons . There is no way you can deny that.

Moreover , how can you doubt people who were in Badr ? Its just insane to think that anyone who fought in badr was not honest.

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

That's opinion, i'm not seeing any proof's and references?.

Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:70:573

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

Sahih Muslim, 013:4015

Sa'id b. Jubair reported from Ibn Abbas that he said: Thursday, and what about Thursday? Then tears began to flow until I saw them on his cheeks as it they were the strings of pearls. He (the narrator) said that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Bring me a shoulder blade and ink-pot (or tablet and inkpot), so that I write for you a document (by following which) you would never go astray. They said: Allah's Messenger (may peace upon him) is in the state of unconsciousness [yahjur, literal translation: "talking nonsense"; obviously, the Prophet was not unconscious since he was speaking].[4]

Interesting hadith's indeed showing Umar's distinct character. I mean, who else would dare to call the Prophet (PBUH) ill whilst he was trying to tell you something?. I know that I wouldn't. Would you?.

I agree with the Hadeeth.

It was a mistake of Umar ( RA ) on that occassion, he should have allowed it to be written.

Look I tell you one thing , my request is that you think about this.

Sunnis will intepret this hadeeth in there own way where as shias will do there own way.

You cannot know why Umar ( RA ) did not want that to be written at that time , its something which only Allah ( swt ) knows what exactly were his intentions. Both sunnis and shias can only assume. Assumptions are not fool proof. You need to leave this to Allah ( swt ) to judge .

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

The Quran is not roll call book , it does not have list of People praised or criticized.

It mentions Hypocrites also , and Quran says even prophet does not know them.

Who can give you such lists ?

The thing that Allah ( swt ) mentions clearly is that we cannot doubt the Sabiqoons. Abu Bakr / Umar were sabiqoons . There is no way you can deny that.

Moreover , how can you doubt people who were in Badr ? Its just insane to think that anyone who fought in badr was not honest.

They lived virtuous life's during the lifetime of the prophet (pbuh) no doubt. However after the death of the prophet (pbuh) the true colour's of people began to show in the way they treated ahlul bayt.

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

You can call yourself Sunni, Maliki , Shafi3i , Hanbali , Hanafi, Wahhabi , Deobandi, Salafi, Ahmadi, or Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama3a, however most mosque's you walk into will have Minhaj al Sunnah by Ibn Taymiyeh , and a lot of Sunni shiekh's will quote Ibn Taymiyeh - aka Shiekh al Islam.

Ibn Tayimiyah has done some very good work , but like most scholars made some mistakes. You need to take whatever good a person does , and avoid mistakes. Prophet said to Abu hurairah that even if the satan said something , it was right. Is ibn Tayimiyah even worse than that ? Just because we do not agree on something , we cannot reject everything good a person has done. Its not fair.

( The hadeeth about ayat ul kursi )

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I agree with the Hadeeth.

It was a mistake of Umar ( RA ) on that occassion, he should have allowed it to be written.

Look I tell you one thing , my request is that you think about this.

Sunnis will intepret this hadeeth in there own way where as shias will do there own way.

You cannot know why Umar ( RA ) did not want that to be written at that time , its something which only Allah ( swt ) knows what exactly were his intentions. Both sunnis and shias can only assume. Assumptions are not fool proof. You need to leave this to Allah ( swt ) to judge .

Even without knowing his intention's, i'm personally shocked that somebody could prevent the prophet from saying what he wanted to say/write, claiming that he is 'ill'.

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

They lived virtuous life's during the lifetime of the prophet (pbuh) no doubt. However after the death of the prophet (pbuh) the true colour's of people began to show in the way they treated ahlul bayt.

Brother , remember for a sunni , shia literature is not proof , similarly for a shia a sunni literature is not primary proof.

[Bismil]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Even without knowing his intention's, i'm personally shocked that somebody could prevent the prophet from saying what he wanted to say/write, claiming that he is 'ill'.

I cannot answer that , I have no idea why he did that.

It was a big mistake , that is all I can say.

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

And what might these 'evil' beliefs be?.

Could you please quote me the exact verse in the Quran which praises Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman speaking about how righteous they are?.

Where was Ahlul Sunnah when the Shia's as well as the Kurd's of Iraq were getting massacred by Saddam Hussein?.

However unlike you I completely condemn the way the Iraqi government treated the Sunni's, its unfair to treat citizens of a country as second class citizens as everybody deserves equal right's.

Allah Hafiz.

Abu Bakr is the 2nd of two mentioned in the ayaat, he is called man of virtue insurah an nur where the verse was revealed regarding him cutting g off finandial support to a relative tat had helped spread the slander of Aisha, and the verse came down so he carried on supporting him.

He is part of the believers that gave bayah under the tree with whom Allah said he was pleased with them, they are part of the ayaah concerning the virtues of the Muhajireen. They are part of the ayaat regarding Tabuk in the 9th year of hijrah, to whom Allah has said he has forgiven the Muhajireen and Ansaar that took part in the expedition .

I hope some can post the relevant verses, as I'm on a mobile device ands its too time consuming because I'm going to masjid soon for magrihb.

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I cannot answer that , I have no idea why he did that.

It was a big mistake , that is all I can say.

http://www.abubakr.org/

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I cannot answer that , I have no idea why he did that.

It was a big mistake , that is all I can say.

If you don't have understandng of the matter then remain silent because your statement amounts to disrespect for him. If the Prophet :saw: wanted to say or write something down then there is none that could prevent him, he could have done it after they left, Umar did what he did out of love and concern for him because he:saw: was unwell.

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

If you don't have understandng of the matter then remain silent because your statement amounts to disrespect for him. If the Prophet :saw: wanted to say or write something down then there is none that could prevent him, he could have done it after they left, Umar did what he did out of love and concern for him because he:saw: was unwell.

Stop being so ignorant and stubborn.

[Mikha’eel]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

Ill deal with your nonsense when I get back online later.

[Musa Sadr]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

I cannot answer that , I have no idea why he did that.

It was a big mistake , that is all I can say.

Thank you for not being stubborn.:o

[Taboo]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

four pages of arguing in one night subhanallah

I don't curse aisha but I disagree with her and the nobility that Sunnis place upon her.

There are hadith supporting her nobility so you disagree with the prophet (as) himself, not "sunnis".

He says he chose Shiism. And his family is sunni. I call his bluff

it's funny because on the shiachat forum most people who claim to have converted to ahlulsunnah get banned. i guess they are trying to shut them up Lol

I will never consider someone who makes lies against the mothers of the believers, and the greatest sahaba + closest friends, advisors, and confidants, to be my brother/sister. Fiqhi difference is one thing, destructive deviance is another. Trust me, the sunni shia "divide" is not just some propaganda. 'Practicing' Sunnis and 'practicing' Shias, for the most part, are irreconcilable.

This.

[candyapple]

Re: Shi'ite VS sunni Islam

That's opinion, i'm not seeing any proof's and references?.

Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:70:573

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

Sahih Muslim, 013:4015

Sa'id b. Jubair reported from Ibn Abbas that he said: Thursday, and what about Thursday? Then tears began to flow until I saw them on his cheeks as it they were the strings of pearls. He (the narrator) said that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Bring me a shoulder blade and ink-pot (or tablet and inkpot), so that I write for you a document (by following which) you would never go astray. They said: Allah's Messenger (may peace upon him) is in the state of unconsciousness [yahjur, literal translation: "talking nonsense"; obviously, the Prophet was not unconscious since he was speaking].[4]

Interesting hadith's indeed showing Umar's distinct character. I mean, who else would dare to call the Prophet (PBUH) ill whilst he was trying to tell you something?. I know that I wouldn't. Would you?.