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Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

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  • #46
    Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

    Originally posted by scholart View Post
    a trusted knowledge-seeker who is authenticated by the scholars who were authenticated by bin baz, bin authaimeen, albany, and muqbil al wadi'y mentioned the hadiths that were untouched,
    and they know about them because the scholars of the past heard those hadiths but couldn't gather the information of the Sanad in their lifetime due to the difficulty of communication and travel at their times, i didn't ask this student what are the hadiths but i can do that and get back to you on them...(haven't you heard of this common statement about some narrators ((this narrator is unknown to us)) that means that the hadith in hand is not to be taken as a saheeh, but it also means that if that man turned out to be authentic and acceptable, then the hadith is also authentic...


    regarding taqleed most if not all sholars dispraised it (i'm not talking about ijtihad, i'm talking about taqleed):
    -Tahawy : no one does (taqleed) unless he is intolerant or an idiot.
    - Abu hanifa : (no one is allowed to take our opinion lest he knows where we took it from) notice he said (no one) not (no scholar).
    - Imam malik: he used to deny the Takhleel of fingers and toes, until a man who is less knowing than he is told him of a hadith that he (malik) didn't know about, and after that he started allowing the
    Takhleel..so even the imams like malik and his companions didn't know about some hadiths.
    - Shafi'y: (if the hadith turned out to be against my opinion in any matter, then i retract my opinion whether i am alive or dead ) him saying alive or dead means that if a person is Shafi'y ad takes his
    opinion on such matter despite the fact that an other scholar chose the closer opinion to righteousness, this person who is shafi'y madh'hab has worked against the shafi'y madh'hab and against sunnah
    because the imama clearly said (i retract my opinion) which makes his new opinion with that of the other scholar whether he is bin hanbal, malik, abu hanifa or others.
    - mohammed bin al hasan and abu yusuf: they are both hanafis of madh'hab, but they both dissented Abu hanifa's opinion in one third of his madh'hab.


    and there are a lot of other proofs of scholars dispraising taqleed unless there is no proof what so ever which is called (Ijtihad) and is a whole other entity.
    Where did you get this from? What website?

    I have a feeling where this might be coming from.
    Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

    "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
    - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

      Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
      Brother, these hadiths are fine. It's not a "if" scenario. They are in Sahih Muslim.

      However, the issue is not you being wrong. The issue was that you are saying opinion A is from Prophet :saw: and opinion B is from scholar so-and-so without knowing the full details. If there is a different opinion, then there is a very good reason/evidence for why scholars of other schools chose that opinion
      Brother , I should not have used the word fine ( I am not a scholar to judge it ) , Its my mistake , what I meant is that I will just see them with my eyes , I generally see things with own eyes . That is because I may use that as a reference , and tell to someone .

      I will check them tomorrow, In Sha Allah I will accept the truth , there is nothing wrong in accepting if I am wrong.

      I am not against difference of opinions , when there is evidence.

      But if there is no evidence , then that means its opinion of a scholar , and even then I am not saying in any negative sense . What I meant is that evidence from prophet or companion would be preferred to that of an scholar .

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

        Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
        Brother, these hadiths are fine. It's not a "if" scenario. They are in Sahih Muslim.

        However, the issue is not you being wrong. The issue was that you are saying opinion A is from Prophet :saw: and opinion B is from scholar so-and-so without knowing the full details. If there is a different opinion, then there is a very good reason/evidence for why scholars of other schools chose that opinion
        Brother , I should not have used the word fine ( I am not a scholar to judge it ) , Its my mistake , what I meant is that I will just see them with my eyes , I generally see things with own eyes . That is because I may use that as a reference , and tell to someone .

        I will check them tomorrow, In Sha Allah I will accept the truth , there is nothing wrong in accepting if I am wrong.

        I am not against difference of opinions , when there is evidence.

        But if there is no evidence , then that means its opinion of a scholar , and even then I am not saying in any negative sense . What I meant is that evidence from prophet or companion would be preferred to that of an scholar .

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

          :insha:
          Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

          "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
          - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

            Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
            Where did you get this from? What website?

            I have a feeling where this might be coming from.
            brother, let us leave our feelings at the door when it comes to our deen

            i will tell you where i got the information above, but not the website...the actual books so you can check them yourself:
            (in the same order)

            1- Al aqida al tahawiyah
            2- known by all and i don't think you deny this one.
            3- Introduction to jarh and tadeel by ibn aby hatim - page 25-26
            4- Hyliah by abu na'eem 9/107, al harawy 1/74, I'lam al mouaqi'een by ibn al qayyem 2/363, al falany -page 104.
            5- Al hashiyah by ibn abideen 1/62.


            i hope this satisfies you, it would definitely satisfy anyone who is not intolerant.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

              Originally posted by scholart View Post
              a trusted knowledge-seeker who is authenticated by the scholars who were authenticated by bin baz, bin authaimeen, albany, and muqbil al wadi'y mentioned the hadiths that were untouched,
              and they know about them because the scholars of the past heard those hadiths but couldn't gather the information of the Sanad in their lifetime due to the difficulty of communication and travel at their times, i didn't ask this student what are the hadiths but i can do that and get back to you on them...(haven't you heard of this common statement about some narrators ((this narrator is unknown to us)) that means that the hadith in hand is not to be taken as a saheeh, but it also means that if that man turned out to be authentic and acceptable, then the hadith is also authentic...


              regarding taqleed most if not all sholars dispraised it (i'm not talking about ijtihad, i'm talking about taqleed):
              -Tahawy : no one does (taqleed) unless he is intolerant or an idiot.
              - Abu hanifa : (no one is allowed to take our opinion lest he knows where we took it from) notice he said (no one) not (no scholar).
              - Imam malik: he used to deny the Takhleel of fingers and toes, until a man who is less knowing than he is told him of a hadith that he (malik) didn't know about, and after that he started allowing the
              Takhleel..so even the imams like malik and his companions didn't know about some hadiths.
              - Shafi'y: (if the hadith turned out to be against my opinion in any matter, then i retract my opinion whether i am alive or dead ) him saying alive or dead means that if a person is Shafi'y ad takes his
              opinion on such matter despite the fact that an other scholar chose the closer opinion to righteousness, this person who is shafi'y madh'hab has worked against the shafi'y madh'hab and against sunnah
              because the imama clearly said (i retract my opinion) which makes his new opinion with that of the other scholar whether he is bin hanbal, malik, abu hanifa or others.
              - mohammed bin al hasan and abu yusuf: they are both hanafis of madh'hab, but they both dissented Abu hanifa's opinion in one third of his madh'hab.

              and there are a lot of other proofs of scholars dispraising taqleed unless there is no proof what so ever which is called (Ijtihad) and is a whole other entity.
              Brother, these quote and saying from the great Imams (RA) are not directed at laymen. We already discussed this.

              As for taqleed being dispraised, I think you are misunderstanding the saying of these scholars. majority of the Muslim population today and in the past have adhered to one of the 4 maddhabs. This includes classical scholars as well. So, to say it is dispraised it's absurd.

              Either you are misunderstanding the saying of these Imams or the place where you are getting your knowledge is propogating twisted interpretation of these sayings. I wouldn't be surprised if they are Salafis.
              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

                Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                Brother, these quote and saying from the great Imams (RA) are not directed at laymen. We already discussed this.

                As for taqleed being dispraised, I think you are misunderstanding the saying of these scholars. majority of the Muslim population today and in the past have adhered to one of the 4 maddhabs. This includes classical scholars as well. So, to say it is dispraised it's absurd.

                Either you are misunderstanding the saying of these Imams or the place where you are getting your knowledge is propogating twisted interpretation of these sayings. I wouldn't be surprised if they are Salafis.
                subhan allah, its the story over and over again, isn't it?.. we give authentic proof with books and page numbers and isnad, and you reply with your own words...

                take a look at my reply and at yours...i ask you by god... which one contains words of scholars (with their references) and which one contains only words .,,,


                FYI...you saying that it is for laymen is not enough to proof that it actually is
                and you saying that it is absurd is also not an authentic proof...certainly nothing like what i have offered

                any way...this talk is useless as long as i offer proof by words of scholars along with their context, and all you offer is your own words, you seem like the type of people who say ((a goat even if it flew))-[i hope you know what that means]

                may allah guide us and you.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Sunnah prayers : 4 rakah or 2 rakah?

                  Originally posted by scholart View Post
                  subhan allah, its the story over and over again, isn't it?.. we give authentic proof with books and page numbers and isnad, and you reply with your own words...

                  take a look at my reply and at yours...i ask you by god... which one contains words of scholars (with their references) and which one contains only words .,,,


                  FYI...you saying that it is for laymen is not enough to proof that it actually is
                  and you saying that it is absurd is also not an authentic proof...certainly nothing like what i have offered

                  any way...this talk is useless as long as i offer proof by words of scholars along with their context, and all you offer is your own words, you seem like the type of people who say ((a goat even if it flew))-[i hope you know what that means]

                  may allah guide us and you.
                  Brother, did I deny those are the words of scholars? No.

                  The problem is your interpretation of those words, which is what I disagree with because I have heard otherwise.
                  Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                  "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                  - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                  Comment

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