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Imam says Haram, but his "madh'hab" says Makrooh?

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  • Imam says Haram, but his "madh'hab" says Makrooh?

    Originally posted by Fais View Post
    You've kind of gone off on one ..

    And there is nothing wrong with one voicing his intention for prayer according to the Shafis.

    Also when I say the Shafi's I mean the Madhab not Imam Shafi (RA) himself. For example, shaving is makruh according to the Shafis. I mean the Madhab, even though Imam Shafi (RA) held it to be Haram.

    And if you don't understand that then you should learn about it.

    And this isn't really want I want to get into right now.

    We are specifically talking about the Mawlid. Can someone please (PLEASE) just list some objections you have to the mawlid ... Please.
    never heard of that

    so if imam shafi says its haram, how can his "madhab" say its only makruh?
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  • #2
    Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

    Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
    never heard of that

    so if imam shafi says its haram, how can his "madhab" say its only makruh?
    Because a madhab is not entirely based around one man's opinion, it is an entire body of scholarship.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

      Originally posted by Ibn Hisham View Post
      Because a madhab is not entirely based around one man's opinion, it is an entire body of scholarship.
      i appreciate the response, but i still do not get the connection

      if the "entire body of scholarship" goes directly against the statements of the supposed author, how is it considered his "madh-hab"?

      logically, if Allah forbid alcohol, how can someone come and say "its ok"?
      .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
      نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
      دولة الإسلامية باقية





      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

        Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
        i appreciate the response, but i still do not get the connection

        if the "entire body of scholarship" goes directly against the statements of the supposed author, how is it considered his "madh-hab"?

        logically, if Allah forbid alcohol, how can someone come and say "its ok"?
        For alcohol there are linguistic loopholes, that I believe some authors expanded upon allahu alim.

        It's not considered, his madhab he is just seen as the founder of said usul. George maqsadi has a good book on the subject I believe.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

          so basically, those who are following "madh-habs" are not actually following the great imams, but a "scholarly body" that, at times, directly conflict with the fatwa of the actual imam

          got it
          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
          دولة الإسلامية باقية





          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

            wow , abu has a point there ...

            so imam shafi says haram , but scholarly body of that time disagrees with him? ... so why name the madhab shafi if ur going to just put ur own opinions above his?



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

              :jkk: for this thread I learnt something new today perhaps

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                so basically, those who are following "madh-habs" are not actually following the great imams, but a "scholarly body" that, at times, directly conflict with the fatwa of the actual imam

                got it
                Yes because no one is above ijma and a opinion, at the end of the day is an opinion.

                For example, can female take male concubines?

                Well during the time of umar, a woman took one and news reached him, radi Allah anhu. He asked the woman, why she had done so and gave her own tafsir on the hadith of what your right hand posses having no gender included. So, he was unable to punish her, at the most he separated her from her concubine.

                Fiqh is wide and expansive alhamdulilah. There are many opinions we learn, from the first lesson in hanafi fiqh that disagree with imam Al-azam Abu hanefa.

                Allah knows best

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                  Originally posted by Ibn Hisham View Post
                  Yes because no one is above ijma and a opinion, at the end of the day is an opinion.

                  For example, can female take male concubines?

                  Well during the time of umar, a woman took one and news reached him, radi Allah anhu. He asked the woman, why she had done so and gave her own tafsir on the hadith of what your right hand posses having no gender included. So, he was unable to punish her, at the most he separated her from her concubine.

                  Fiqh is wide and expansive alhamdulilah. There are many opinions we learn, from the first lesson in hanafi fiqh that disagree with imam Al-azam Abu hanefa.

                  Allah knows best
                  whenever i read stories of how the companions interpreted certain verses to mean or "could mean" certain things, I LOVE IT

                  because, to me, it shows the fluidity of islam

                  whereas today, we try to constrict islam in ways that inhibit mental development

                  i do understand that we do need scholarship in islam, but i also think we need to avoid rigidity (except for what is clear)

                  the debate of banu qurayza comes to mind often
                  .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                  نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                  دولة الإسلامية باقية





                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                    Which debate is this, can you forward me information ? Sorry I meant ayah, above not hadith.

                    I agree.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                      Originally posted by Ibn Hisham View Post
                      Which debate is this, can you forward me information ? Sorry I meant ayah, above not hadith.

                      I agree.
                      i meant the debate between the companions when instructed not to pray the asr salat until they reached banu qurayza
                      .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                      نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                      دولة الإسلامية باقية





                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                        Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                        i appreciate the response, but i still do not get the connection

                        if the "entire body of scholarship" goes directly against the statements of the supposed author, how is it considered his "madh-hab"?

                        logically, if Allah forbid alcohol, how can someone come and say "its ok"?
                        Brother with due respect to all Imams , Imams are Humans , and those are there opinions.

                        I heard a scholar say that in Fatwa e Alalgiri it is mentioned that Imam Abu hanifa ( :RAA: ) opinion was that fasts of Shawwal were Bidah. His student Imam Yusuf differed and said not it was Bidah only if someone keeps all six consecutively. Later on after him all hanafi scholars agree that in both case it is okay.

                        So , there can be difference in opinions. We need to accept that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                          You have to take into consideration that perhaps later scholars of a particular Madthab have acquired stronger evidence that maybe the four fuqaha Imams did not have at the time.
                          "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                            ok, let me explain my perplexity in this matter

                            we constantly hear how ONE, you MUST follow a madhhab, or else you are some wayward, backwards, ignoramus...........fine

                            and then we hear TWO, you have to follow a sheikh or scholar to get your islamic opinions and understandings.......fine

                            but when there are such glaring contradictions, differences, opinions, etc, one must wonder if these men and women are to be respected for their scholarship, why when things are somewhat confusing we get the "they are only human" reasoning

                            now, before anyone starts claiming that i am doing DIY fatwa that is not the case
                            nor am i denigrating the importance or work of any scholar, old or new

                            my issue is primarily with people who condemn others who come up with opinions (that are well within islam) as being some type of deviant or cancer to the ummah

                            my understanding is that imam A said, such and such is haram, and this is what folks have held firm to over the years

                            NOT that imam A said such and such is haram, and then his own followers said, NO, it is not, because at that moment, i am confused as to what exactly constitutes a madhhab if you are not adhering to the methodology and approach of the great imam?

                            so now today, we have women imams, and gay imams, and modernist imams, and secular imams, and government imams, these are folks we should dismiss, automatically

                            but when someone asks a question (on or offline) and we say go to a scholar, how do we know what this scholar is saying is any better or worse than what you can learn from sheikh google or some dumb kid on the internet?
                            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                            دولة الإسلامية باقية





                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid

                              Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                              NOT that imam A said such and such is haram, and then his own followers said, NO, it is not, because at that moment, i am confused as to what exactly constitutes a madhhab if you are not adhering to the methodology and approach of the great imam?
                              The Imams laid the foundation for each school so to speak, that's why the maddhabs are named after them. But, even within the maddhabs there can be different opinions on certain matters.

                              Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                              but when someone asks a question (on or offline) and we say go to a scholar, how do we know what this scholar is saying is any better or worse than what you can learn from sheikh google or some dumb kid on the internet?
                              That's why it's always best to follow reliable scholar(s) whom you know have a traditional background in Islamic sciences. People read stuff on the web from random Ahmed who is giving fatwas and they confuse themselves thinking how does this fatwa go against the ruling of a maddhab.
                              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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