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shia wanting to ask questions :)

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  • Ariadne
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    The answer is here :

    Clarification on conflict between Fatimah (a.s) and Abu Bakar (r.a) regarding Fadak:

    http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...relations.html

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...kr-%28ra%29-!&
    Last edited by Ariadne; 25-12-14, 04:42 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ali1988
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    ‘And when Abraham was tested by his Lord with certain commands and he fulfilled them. Then He said: Lo! I appoint you (Abraham) an Imam for mankind. (Abraham) said: And of my offspring (will there be Imam)? He said: My Covenant does not reach the wrong-doers (among them).’ (Quran 2:124)

    as you can see Allah elevated prophet Ibrahims status by making him an Imam. If Allah has rewarded the prophet due to the test his status must be higher right? which is why he made him an Imam. This is the shia argument.


    now lets discuss this issue.
    Fatimah the daughter of the Prophet sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah’s Apostle had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. ...but Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatimah. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband ‘‘Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself.

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English, v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

    Now either Fatimah was liar or Abu Bakr treated her unjustly. If she was liar, then she did not deserve such a saying from the Prophet that Fatimah is a part of me and whoever angers her, angers me. This itself is a clear indication of her infallibility. The purification sentence of the Holy Qur’an (the last sentence of verse 33:33) is another indication of her infallibility, as Aisha herself testified (See Sahih Muslim, 1980 Edition, Arabic, v4, p1883, Tradition #61). Hence there is nothing left for the sensible people but to accept the fact that she was unjustly treated, and that she was easy to be branded as a liar by Umar who was willing to let her burn unless the remaining people in her house come out to vote for Abu Bakr.

    So logical conclusion from the above traditions in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim is that Fatimah was treated unjustly, and that she was angry at Abu Bakr and Umar, which follows Allah and his prophet are angry at them according the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari. The excuse that Abu Bakr used to refuse to pay the right of Fatimah (see Appendix) was against the text of Qur’an. How can he be the executor of prophet while he does not obey the clear text of Qur’an? Abu Bakr claimed that prophet has said: "We prophets do not leave any inheritance, and whatever we leave should go to charity.”This is false allegation that he has made up, because prophet can not contradict Qur’an which in two verses testifies that prophets had heir, and their children inherited from them.

    Allah says in Qur’an:

    "And Solomon (Sulaymaan) inherited from David.”(Qur’an 27:16)

    While both Sulaymaan and David were prophets and very wealthy. They were kings of their times. Allah , Exalted, also says:

    "(Zakariya prayed to Allah by saying)... Grant me a son from yourself, who inherits from me and inherit from the children of Jacob, and make him, O’ my Lord, the one with whom you are well-pleased.”(Qur’an 19:5-6).

    So why didn't abu bak give the inheritance?

    Leave a comment:


  • Saif-Uddin
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    Lol your preaching to the choir I don't agree with that concept its not mentioned in the Quran which the book of guidance which does not make sense as to why Allah would not revile it if it was true. This is the critical aspect I have within the doctrine. But at the same time I am some what critical of some of the sahih hadith sunnis hold which is why Im here
    The Best of Mankind are the Anbiya (alayhi wa asalam) and the Best amongst them, the Cream of the crop is Rasulullah :saw:

    this is fact is not debatable,

    Shia Twelver degenerates elevate their Imaams above the Anbiya (alayhi wa asalam)

    and assign attributes to them that do not befit them, clear cut Kufr,

    yeah we know you Shia's practice Filth such as Mutah, even though Ali :RA: is the one that Narrated in Authentic Ahadith concerning its prohibition,

    go figure,

    Leave a comment:


  • Ariadne
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Alaikum salaam warahmatullah

    No mean to insult but.... :scratch: frankly I feel like your Q's sounds like they're being asked by nonmuslim.... but no problem anyway :)


    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post

    1. an issue that I actually have which is a major one is the prophets age marrying Aisha in bukhari it is stated as being 6-9 years old.
    It's been answered in detail here : http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...67#post5900567

    Imam Shafi'ie in his "Ummul Kitaab" and Imam Bayhaqi stated that it wasn't uncommon to see in their era the Arabian girls got their first menstruation in age 8 - 9, and gave birth to child in age 10. It was so common it's like a social norm during the era. Aisha wasn't the only one or the first one. I recall a narration from Aisha she had her first puberty symptom in age 7, where she lost a lot of hair due to it.

    Aisha's 9 year old is definitely NOT our time's 9 year old. Not in the time where a 10-year old woman was common to have a childbirth. They matured so fast. And not to mention they had shorter life span, i.e. like around 60 - 70 years old. Aisha and some of Prophet's wives died in age around 60. And as comparison (albeit not related), Imam Shafi'ie died in age 52 (and he is a Quraish).


    2. Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

    the prophet(saw) is a prophet of mercy yet is this not regarded as torture? I realise I may not understand the context of the hadith so those with more knowledge please explain.
    The most common explanations I've read is that the Prophet only punished them based on qisas, i.e. retaliating based on how they exactly did the same thing toward the shepherds.


    3. recently I have been reading a lot on the forum trying to better my knowledge and have noticed many Isis supporters I would like to ask you what do you think of isis selling women as slaves how can you justify this via quran and hadith? also theoretically speaking do you think killing shia is ok? and if so with what proof?
    In Islam, slaves are only lawfully gained from the war combatants and their helpers, not civilians. Even in this case, combatants are not always being enslaved. They can be freed with ransom, freed without ransom, trialed, executed (if they're too dangerous), or enslaved. In the time of Ancient Arabia, when a tribe had war, the womenfolk aided the combatants. That's why they're captured.

    Islam forbids taking non-combatants civilians as slaves. There's a sahih hadith that Allah and His Rasul will be enemy to those who taking free people as slaves.

    As for ISIS version of slavery, you can read here :
    Indian scholar debunks ISIS claims about slavery in Islam

    Killing people unjustly is wrong, whether it's Shia or non-muslims or Atheist. Qur'an had said that whoever unjustly destroys one life, it is as if he destroys the whole humanity -- that's how Allah valued the life of human beings. "And get straight in mizan" - Allah said in Ar Rahmaan. Steadfast to justice.
    Last edited by Ariadne; 23-12-14, 10:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • be121sa
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    hmm

    Leave a comment:


  • Thiqa bro
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    Evidence is valid reports of valid sources of innocent being killed brother myself If I believed Hezbollah killed one innocent human I wouldn't follow them but the reality is I have yet to come across any reports saying so we can agree to disagree on that matter unless you have any links to provide me in which I can look into. As I said Im only concerned with the truth we are all muslims at the end of the day and we are just on this earth to please Allah. I reject many shia concept which is why I refer to myself as muslim only.
    Hezbollah is indeed a terrorist organisation, guilty of war crimes and killing of Sunnis. And yes they are cowards, who attack Muslims under disguise. Go and search net you will find videos for their crimes. However, obviously you wil come-up with the excuse that, either those they killed were terrorists, or that those aren't Hezbollah, well this is same tactics all those who support terrorists follow. What is decisive for us, are the words of trustworthy ulema, who were their supporters at a time, but they disassociated from these terrorists, not due to hear say, but due to strong proofs.

    Leave a comment:


  • ali1988
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by Thiqa bro View Post
    Here's what some other Shia scholar said:

    Muhsin al-Hakeem said in “al-Mustamsak” 2/410:

    [I say: The duty is to humor them (The Sunnies) and keep up with them, it is forbidden to leave this, so that they may not become aware of the differences]

    And he said on pg.332:

    [What we benefit from the narrations of Taqiyyah is that they were legislated so that the Shia may hide from their opponents, and so that they may not be known for their Shiasm and Rafidhism]

    Muhammad Sadiq al-Roohani in his book “Fiqh al-Sadiq” 11/418, he says about the Imam Ja`far:

    [We conclude from this, that Taqiyyah is his (Ja`far’s) religion and that of his fathers, and it is to conceal our ways from the opponents, and to try and spread them in secret. It is necessary to preserve the religion (Shiasm) and its followers, also spreading it depends on this.]

    What evidence are you gonna accept?, if we give you an evidence you would certainly say that those were terrorists. It's so easy for SHias to wipe off their hands from blood stains of innocent Muslims.

    And what I'm saying is that, on one hand you ask Sunnis to condemn the extremists, and we certainly do, but the other hand, you keep defending the Shia extremists, be It the Mahdi army or be it Hezbollah. You see the double standards.
    Evidence is valid reports of valid sources of innocent being killed brother myself If I believed Hezbollah killed one innocent human I wouldn't follow them but the reality is I have yet to come across any reports saying so we can agree to disagree on that matter unless you have any links to provide me in which I can look into. As I said Im only concerned with the truth we are all muslims at the end of the day and we are just on this earth to please Allah. I reject many shia concept which is why I refer to myself as muslim only.

    Leave a comment:


  • ali1988
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    The Difference is the Caliph can be Questioned and even corrected if he makes a Mistake.

    he is not Infallible.

    your so called Twelver Imaams are Supposedely Divinely asigned, Infallible, and You are Obligated to Obey them, cannot be questioned or held accountable.

    even more disturbingly Shias elevate the 12 Imams above that of the Anbiya (alayhi wa salaam) which is Kufr to say the least.

    more Kufr ...

    Shia believe “The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to the angels, prophets, and messengers.”

    Nauzubillah min zaliq

    Lol your preaching to the choir I don't agree with that concept its not mentioned in the Quran which the book of guidance which does not make sense as to why Allah would not revile it if it was true. This is the critical aspect I have within the doctrine. But at the same time I am some what critical of some of the sahih hadith sunnis hold which is why Im here

    Leave a comment:


  • Thiqa bro
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    ayatollah Sistani -

    Taqiyah is done for safety reasons. For example, a person fears that he might be killed or harmed, if he does not observe Taqiyah. In this case, it is obligatory to observe Taqiyah.

    which shirazi are you referring to there are many scholars named shirazi?
    Here's what some other Shia scholar said:

    Muhsin al-Hakeem said in “al-Mustamsak” 2/410:

    [I say: The duty is to humor them (The Sunnies) and keep up with them, it is forbidden to leave this, so that they may not become aware of the differences]

    And he said on pg.332:

    [What we benefit from the narrations of Taqiyyah is that they were legislated so that the Shia may hide from their opponents, and so that they may not be known for their Shiasm and Rafidhism]

    Muhammad Sadiq al-Roohani in his book “Fiqh al-Sadiq” 11/418, he says about the Imam Ja`far:

    [We conclude from this, that Taqiyyah is his (Ja`far’s) religion and that of his fathers, and it is to conceal our ways from the opponents, and to try and spread them in secret. It is necessary to preserve the religion (Shiasm) and its followers, also spreading it depends on this.]

    All due respect anyone can say anything about any group is there any evidence not hear say that Hezbollah have killed any innocent people because as I said I can provide you many of "Syrian rebels" killing innocent civilians. Lets be brutally honest with ourselves al queda,Taliban isis they are not shia..this in itself is one reason im hastened to accept the ahlul sunnah school of thought as there are a lot of terrorist organisations that stem from them whereas the shias there are non. Im quite critical of the shia beliefs myself and refer to myself as muslim rather then anything else. Bukhari has some really questionable stuff and if your willing I can go through them with you not as a means to try debate for satisfaction of winning or proving this sect is right etc but to get a better insight into our own deen.
    What evidence are you gonna accept?, if we give you an evidence you would certainly say that those were terrorists. It's so easy for SHias to wipe off their hands from blood stains of innocent Muslims.

    And what I'm saying is that, on one hand you ask Sunnis to condemn the extremists, and we certainly do, but the other hand, you keep defending the Shia extremists, be It the Mahdi army or be it Hezbollah. You see the double standards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bismil
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    I hear what your saying did they torture the man though or just kill him because in the hadith ive read they just killed him?
    brother all your questions are already answered previously on this forum and across other forums as well. These are common questions asked against Islam.

    The people were punished according to laws prevalent at that time.

    prophets are merciful , but also Just. They have to punish when the situation demands.

    Allah ( swt ) is Most Merciful , yet he will punish , if someone deserves.

    That is how the society runs, if there are No punishments , then there will be total chaos and the society would be destroyed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saif-Uddin
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    your correct in that in the shia faith you must follow the imams but isn't it correct that in the sunni belief you must give bayah to the caliph so what difference is there?
    The Difference is the Caliph can be Questioned and even corrected if he makes a Mistake.

    he is not Infallible.

    your so called Twelver Imaams are Supposedely Divinely asigned, Infallible, and You are Obligated to Obey them, cannot be questioned or held accountable.

    even more disturbingly Shias elevate the 12 Imams above that of the Anbiya (alayhi wa salaam) which is Kufr to say the least.

    more Kufr ...

    Shia believe “The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to the angels, prophets, and messengers.”

    Nauzubillah min zaliq
    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 20-12-14, 04:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ali1988
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Recall your claim ...



    this is clearly false,

    Twelver Shia's practice Mass Taqqiyah by default as stated above

    they are required to Obey the "Imaams" who are Divinely Designated, no If's Buts, ...

    Utter blind following,

    there is a Lot wrong with with Shi'ism I only touched on a small aspect of it.
    your correct in that in the shia faith you must follow the imams but isn't it correct that in the sunni belief you must give bayah to the caliph so what difference is there?

    Leave a comment:


  • Saif-Uddin
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    bro why do you feel the need to speak to me in such a way? a fail on my part? whats a fail im here asking questions trying to better my knowledge so please show some respect as a brother in Islam.

    The whole having taqlid to a maraja is a man made concept in its self so its up for debate within the shia school of thought its like following one of the 4 madhabs its kind of human constructed concept.
    Recall your claim ...

    Originally posted by ali1988 View Post
    taqiyah too my knowledge can only be used when ones life is in danger if you don't believe this is the case set forth some evidence my dear friend.
    When I see Iran gave 50 million back in 2006 to hamas and constant aid to Palestine over the years how can we call that taqiyah?
    The Syrians they are fighting my friend are the ones that if they took over Syria would look to attack Lebanon next and do god knows what to shia.
    If you can present proof that Hezbollah has killed one innocent president it and I will look into it.

    I can present you tons of evidence of shias being massacred simply for being shia in Syria,iraq and Pakistan
    this is clearly false,

    Twelver Shia's practice Mass Taqqiyah by default as stated above

    they are required to Obey the "Imaams" who are Divinely Designated, no If's Buts, ...

    Utter blind following,

    there is a Lot wrong with with Shi'ism I only touched on a small aspect of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ali1988
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
    The manner in which they tortured and killed the Shepherd of the Prophet :saw: , the same was done to them, add that to the other list of crimes, it was a like for like punishment. They got exactly what they deserved.

    And just because the Prophet :saw: is merciful doesn't mean he is all turn the other cheek and love and forgiveness for everything. Do u really expect the Prophet :saw: to pardon those individuals for what they did, for their torture, murder, theft, apostasy and taking advantage of the kindness?
    I hear what your saying did they torture the man though or just kill him because in the hadith ive read they just killed him?

    Leave a comment:


  • ali1988
    replied
    Re: shia wanting to ask questions :)

    ayatollah Sistani -

    Taqiyah is done for safety reasons. For example, a person fears that he might be killed or harmed, if he does not observe Taqiyah. In this case, it is obligatory to observe Taqiyah.

    which shirazi are you referring to there are many scholars named shirazi?

    All due respect anyone can say anything about any group is there any evidence not hear say that Hezbollah have killed any innocent people because as I said I can provide you many of "Syrian rebels" killing innocent civilians. Lets be brutally honest with ourselves al queda,Taliban isis they are not shia..this in itself is one reason im hastened to accept the ahlul sunnah school of thought as there are a lot of terrorist organisations that stem from them whereas the shias there are non. Im quite critical of the shia beliefs myself and refer to myself as muslim rather then anything else. Bukhari has some really questionable stuff and if your willing I can go through them with you not as a means to try debate for satisfaction of winning or proving this sect is right etc but to get a better insight into our own deen.

    Leave a comment:

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