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Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

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  • Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

    1) What does the rape victim requires?

    - 4 witness of male or women
    - or you require 2 male witness and if you don't have any male witness then you have to bring 4 female witness? ( 1 Male = 2 Females )

    2) A Christian asked me this.

    but to have any witnesses to rape is almost impossible. What are four/two people doing just watching some poor woman being raped?

    How can there be any witness for rape? If someone saw a women being raped then he must help her or in other words it means that the witness saw being raped but he did nothing and he was present at that time when someone was being raped.

    3) As you know that Science is advanced so why we don't use DNA Test instead of witness?

  • #2
    Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

    :salams

    Question
    If a woman is raped, does she have to bring up 4 witnesses to get the rapist convicted? If so, what is if she gets pregnant. Will she get punishment since juridicaly she is guilty of adultery? And can modern technics be used in order to proof that she was being raped.
    I read somewhere else, that she has to bring up 4 witnesses, but it seems very unlikely, since if there were 4 witnesses theese would obviously done something to help her. Can u please bring some light into this whole complicated topic.

    Answer
    Walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah,

    I pray this finds you in the best of health and spirits.

    This is a common myth about Islamic criminal law. Rather, the four witness requirement applies only to the prescribed hadd punishment (which in the case of a married person could be death and for the non-married, 100 lashes). [Marghinani, Hidaya] This punishment is only applied in very rare cases, as is clear, and is meant to be a social deterrent, above all.

    As the classical and contemporary jurists (such as Mufti Taqi Usmani) have made clear, a rapist can be convicted on lesser evidence (including scientific evidence, such as DNA tests and medical reports) for discretionary punishments. These discretionary punishments are left up to the legal system to determine.

    However, it is a myth to say that Islam would in any way condone rape, or allow a rapist to go free for this terrible crime against an innocent human being and against society.

    And Allah alone gives success.

    Faraz Rabbani
    Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

    "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
    - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

      Sorry but i find no answer about point 2. So Please help.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

        Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the four witnesses for accusations of adultery? And that, when the accusation is made on the woman? I don't believe the burden of proof for rape is upon the woman.

        Found a reference, check out this Hadith:

        Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:
        When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.
        She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.
        She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ).
        When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Messenger of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.
        He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.
        He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them.
        Abu Dawud said: Asbat bin Nasr has also transmitted it from Simak.

        It's Hasan according to Al-Albani, but I don't know what the rest of what he said about it means, it's in Arabic:
        (حسن دون قوله ارجموه والأرجح أنه لم يرجم (الألباني

        Reference: Sunan Abi Dawud, Book 40, Hadith 29
        http://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/29

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

          Originally posted by UzairAhmed View Post
          Sorry but i find no answer about point 2. So Please help.
          The condition for carrying out hadd punishment is the witnesses as mentioned, because the punishment is no joke.

          If there arent witnesses then the judge will prescribe another method of punishment.



          Hadhrat Ali (Radiallahu anhu)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

            Originally posted by UzairAhmed View Post
            1) What does the rape victim requires?

            - 4 witness of male or women
            - or you require 2 male witness and if you don't have any male witness then you have to bring 4 female witness? ( 1 Male = 2 Females )

            2) A Christian asked me this.

            but to have any witnesses to rape is almost impossible. What are four/two people doing just watching some poor woman being raped?

            How can there be any witness for rape? If someone saw a women being raped then he must help her or in other words it means that the witness saw being raped but he did nothing and he was present at that time when someone was being raped.

            3) As you know that Science is advanced so why we don't use DNA Test instead of witness?
            The claim that kufar make about a woman requiring multiple witnesses to prove she was raped is a lie. See the hadith in post #4. The multiple witnesses law is to protect women from being accused of being unchaste, and this does not apply to rape.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

              Originally posted by UzairAhmed View Post
              1) What does the rape victim requires?

              - 4 witness of male or women
              - or you require 2 male witness and if you don't have any male witness then you have to bring 4 female witness? ( 1 Male = 2 Females )

              2) A Christian asked me this.

              but to have any witnesses to rape is almost impossible. What are four/two people doing just watching some poor woman being raped?

              How can there be any witness for rape? If someone saw a women being raped then he must help her or in other words it means that the witness saw being raped but he did nothing and he was present at that time when someone was being raped.

              3) As you know that Science is advanced so why we don't use DNA Test instead of witness?
              First of all, who says a woman has to bring four witnesses. Is it the quran?? No. I haven't read anything like that in the quran, nor read anything about it. If I"m wrong please let me know.

              Secondly, I know in pakistan there is a specific case of rape that can be reported by four witnesses. But it's NOT the ONLY way a rape can be reported. A woman is well within her rights to open a police case.

              Now to answer your questions:

              1. The law about 4 witnesses was brought about for a very specific kind of rape that happens in remote villages, and at the time was on the up rise. Where a woman would be raped in full view of the entire village as way to terrorise them. Such as in the case of Mukhtar mai. In such cases, the law decided that the woman did not have to provide any other evidence, the entire village or at least four of them could give witness that it happened and the criminals would face trial. In the case of Mukhtar mai it was her dad and other family members that gave witness. (Sadly due to corruption, no one has gone to jail).

              2. A woman is fully within her rights to go to the police and expect them to look for evidence such as DNA, finger prints, and other evidence to catch her rapists. The one law does not nullify the other.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                Thanks guys i got the verse

                "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 24:4)"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                  DNA evidence isn't always reliable - there was a discussion about the misuse of this evidence and the emphasis that is overplaced in it. Look this up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                    Originally posted by Abdur-Razzaq View Post
                    The claim that kufar make about a woman requiring multiple witnesses to prove she was raped is a lie. See the hadith in post #4. The multiple witnesses law is to protect women from being accused of being unchaste, and this does not apply to rape.
                    Doesn't the rule apply in some cases though, I'm not sure I'm asking but I think four women are needed to testify for a majority of things not all things

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                      Originally posted by missmirah02 View Post
                      Doesn't the rule apply in some cases though, I'm not sure I'm asking but I think four women are needed to testify for a majority of things not all things
                      Look carefully at the hadith in post #4, when the woman made an accusation against a man they immediately went out and seized someone, and later the assailant identified himself and justice was carried out. The chastity and reputation of women is a very big deal in Islam, in the Sirah we find a story of a woman who was harassed by some Jews in Medinah and they tore her clothes off. Some Muslims came to her defense and killed her assailants, and they didn't even touch her except to tear her clothes off! There is also a story in the Sirah of a poet of the kufar that slandered chaste women of the Muslims of Medinah. He was later killed for his slander.

                      The evidence from ahadith shows that the Shari'ah is in place to protect women, not suppress them. 4 witnesses are required to accuse a woman of adultery or fornication, a woman does not need 4 witnesses to say she was raped. And in response to the questions about what would 4 witnesses be doing just watching a woman being raped, the answer in the Shari'ah is that if someone walks upon a person being raped they can kill the assailant on the spot to protect the victim. They do not go grab 3 more people to witness the rape, they take the life of the rapist then and there.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                        Originally posted by UzairAhmed View Post
                        Sorry but i find no answer about point 2. So Please help.
                        first off, super grateful to brother mirror for that faraz rabbani quote as i feel like it really cleared up a lot of the misconceptions around this issue...

                        brother uzair, as for why anyone would witness a rape, you would truly be shocked by some folks...i have personally seen and also heard many stories of people standing by and watching (even once i broke up a crowd of people and called the police) when horrific abuse is happening. it really depends on the specific situation and the culture of the place and so on as to why that happens, but it does in fact occur that people stand by and watch others be raped or abused. what's called the bystander effect sometimes makes it worse - the more people that are present the more they feel it's someone else's responsibility to put a stop to it. it's horrifying and there is no rational explanation but it happens.

                        still as you said it is uncommon - most rapes it is the victim's word against the perpetrator, with only physical and dna evidence sometimes to prove. so alhamdulillah it is not required to convict someone of rape under sharia to have witnesses, only if you are pursuing the hudd punishments.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                          Kuffar brought this thing

                          A pregnant woman accused of zina who denies sex was consensual must prove she was raped with four eyewitnesses testifying before the court. This has led to many cases where rape victims have been punished for zina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                            Originally posted by Abdur-Razzaq View Post
                            Look carefully at the hadith in post #4, when the woman made an accusation against a man they immediately went out and seized someone, and later the assailant identified himself and justice was carried out. The chastity and reputation of women is a very big deal in Islam, in the Sirah we find a story of a woman who was harassed by some Jews in Medinah and they tore her clothes off. Some Muslims came to her defense and killed her assailants, and they didn't even touch her except to tear her clothes off! There is also a story in the Sirah of a poet of the kufar that slandered chaste women of the Muslims of Medinah. He was later killed for his slander.

                            The evidence from ahadith shows that the Shari'ah is in place to protect women, not suppress them. 4 witnesses are required to accuse a woman of adultery or fornication, a woman does not need 4 witnesses to say she was raped. And in response to the questions about what would 4 witnesses be doing just watching a woman being raped, the answer in the Shari'ah is that if someone walks upon a person being raped they can kill the assailant on the spot to protect the victim. They do not go grab 3 more people to witness the rape, they take the life of the rapist then and there.
                            I wasn't saying that, I just thought women needed four witnesses

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why 4 witness are required for Rape victims?

                              Guys please help me in clarifying this

                              http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...-under-sharia/

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