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Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

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  • Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

    I posted this in another forum and I did not receive a satisfactory answer. I don't want to hear interpretations and fiqhs coming from fallible people. I want to be shown where it says so in the Qur'an and the ahadith! Thanks in advance.

    ...

    So, we have this from sahih Bukhari:

    8.407: Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet used to invoke Allah with the following invocation: "O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds and what you know better than I. O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly. You are the One Who makes the things go before and You are the One Who delays them, and You are the Omnipotent."

    ...

    If Muhammad himself was praying for forgiveness for sins that he may have committed, then why do muslims think he's perfect and incapable of sinning? Do they know more than he does? Are they calling him a liar? Cause he certainly seems to think that he's capable of sinning.

    IMO, this doctrine is completely indefensible. In http://islamqa.info/en/42216, nothing is given to support the infallibility of Muhammad with regards to sins. Only the ability of the prophet to convey the message of Allah infallibly is proven extensively (with references to hadith, quran etc)

    ...

    For the rest, the site has only this to say:

    Secondly: With regard to the Prophets as people, they may make mistakes. This may be discussed as follows:

    1 –They do not commit major sins
    With regard to major sins, the Prophets do not commit major sins at all, and they are protected from such major sins both before their missions began or afterwards.

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/319:
    The view that the Prophets are infallible and protected against committing major sins, as opposed to minor sins, is the view of the majority of Muslim scholars and of all groups. It is also the view of the scholars of tafseer and hadeeth and ***aha’. Indeed, nothing has been narrated from any of the salaf, imams, Sahaabah, Taabi’een and those who followed them except that which is in accordance with this view.


    ...

    So it's just a naked appeal to majority opinion of flawed humans. Nothing exists in Islamic scripture to suggest that Muhammad is incapable of sinning in matters unrelated to conveying the Message. (on the contrary, he himself says otherwise). Why then do the 4 schools continue to support this baseless doctrine (along with the majority of muslims)?
    Last edited by masterridley; 07-10-14, 03:47 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

    Originally posted by masterridley View Post
    I posted this in another forum and I did not receive a satisfactory answer. I don't want to hear interpretations and fiqhs coming from fallible people. I want to be shown where it says so in the Qur'an and the ahadith! Thanks in advance.

    ...

    So, we have this from sahih Bukhari:

    8.407: Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet used to invoke Allah with the following invocation: "O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds and what you know better than I. O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly. You are the One Who makes the things go before and You are the One Who delays them, and You are the Omnipotent."

    ...

    If Muhammad himself was praying for forgiveness for sins that he may have committed, then why do muslims think he's perfect and incapable of sinning? Do they know more than he does? Are they calling him a liar? Cause he certainly seems to think that he's capable of sinning.

    IMO, this doctrine is completely indefensible. In http://islamqa.info/en/42216, nothing is given to support the infallibility of Muhammad with regards to sins. Only the ability of the prophet to convey the message of Allah infallibly is proven extensively (with references to hadith, quran etc)

    ...

    For the rest, the site has only this to say:

    Secondly: With regard to the Prophets as people, they may make mistakes. This may be discussed as follows:

    1 –They do not commit major sins
    With regard to major sins, the Prophets do not commit major sins at all, and they are protected from such major sins both before their missions began or afterwards.

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/319:
    The view that the Prophets are infallible and protected against committing major sins, as opposed to minor sins, is the view of the majority of Muslim scholars and of all groups. It is also the view of the scholars of tafseer and hadeeth and ***aha’. Indeed, nothing has been narrated from any of the salaf, imams, Sahaabah, Taabi’een and those who followed them except that which is in accordance with this view.


    ...

    So it's just a naked appeal to majority opinion of flawed humans. Nothing exists in Islamic scripture to suggest that Muhammad is incapable of sinning in matters unrelated to conveying the Message. (on the contrary, he himself says otherwise). Why then do the 4 schools continue to support this baseless doctrine (along with the majority of muslims)?
    The question I would like to know what is your motive for this post? The Prophets, may the Peace and Blessings be upon them all, are incapable of committing major sins but may make minor sins. So what's the problem? Are you a Christian that wants to insist that Jesus is the only sinless human being that ever lived?
    "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

      Originally posted by Musbah View Post
      The question I would like to know what is your motive for this post? The Prophets, may the Peace and Blessings be upon them all, are incapable of committing major sins but may make minor sins. So what's the problem? Are you a Christian that wants to insist that Jesus is the only sinless human being that ever lived?
      He is an agnostic.
      Allah's Messenger ï·º said, "Allah said, 'O son of Adam! Spend, and I shall spend on you."

      https://www.crisisaid.org.uk/appeals/yemen/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

        Originally posted by Musbah View Post
        The question I would like to know what is your motive for this post? The Prophets, may the Peace and Blessings be upon them all, are incapable of committing major sins but may make minor sins. So what's the problem? Are you a Christian that wants to insist that Jesus is the only sinless human being that ever lived?
        No, I'm an agnostic so trust me, it has nothing to do with Jesus. My intention is not to attack Islam either.

        Rather my intention is to understand where this unsupported claim made by all four traditional (ie old) schools comes from. The Qur'an says that Muhammad is incapable of failing at conveying the Word of Allah correctly, but it is nowhere said that his personal life is perfect or indeed perfectly moral.

        Everywhere I ask, I'm told "Muhammad is the perfect human being", "he's the most moral of all" etc. Yet no one knows where this is said, it is just something old guys centuries ago concluded. And we know those are not infallible either!!

        I think it's very important cause it would mean that things that were very moral, even progressive, at the time of Muhammad (like treating your slaves well etc) are not moral today (eg slavery is not permitted at all).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

          Originally posted by masterridley View Post
          No, I'm an agnostic so trust me, it has nothing to do with Jesus. My intention is not to attack Islam either.

          Rather my intention is to understand where this unsupported claim made by all four traditional (ie old) schools comes from. The Qur'an says that Muhammad is incapable of failing at conveying the Word of Allah correctly, but it is nowhere said that his personal life is perfect or indeed perfectly moral.

          Everywhere I ask, I'm told "Muhammad is the perfect human being", "he's the most moral of all" etc. Yet no one knows where this is said, it is just something old guys centuries ago concluded. And we know those are not infallible either!!

          I think it's very important cause it would mean that things that were very moral, even progressive, at the time of Muhammad (like treating your slaves well etc) are not moral today (eg slavery is not permitted at all).
          I think you raise a very important question. Kudos to you sir.

          Frankly, I don't think you're going to get a convincing answer because it does not exist.

          Muhammad was prone to making errors, like every other human.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

            Originally posted by BrainGames View Post
            I think you raise a very important question. Kudos to you sir.

            Frankly, I don't think you're going to get a convincing answer because it does not exist.

            Muhammad was prone to making errors, like every other human.

            he(sws) wasnt like every other human.



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

              Originally posted by masterridley View Post
              No, I'm an agnostic so trust me, it has nothing to do with Jesus. My intention is not to attack Islam either.

              Rather my intention is to understand where this unsupported claim made by all four traditional (ie old) schools comes from. The Qur'an says that Muhammad is incapable of failing at conveying the Word of Allah correctly, but it is nowhere said that his personal life is perfect or indeed perfectly moral.

              Everywhere I ask, I'm told "Muhammad is the perfect human being", "he's the most moral of all" etc. Yet no one knows where this is said, it is just something old guys centuries ago concluded. And we know those are not infallible either!!

              I think it's very important cause it would mean that things that were very moral, even progressive, at the time of Muhammad (like treating your slaves well etc) are not moral today (eg slavery is not permitted at all).

              i think ur confused about the prophet :saw: asking for forgiveness although hes sinless? these are matters which ive never really dived into so it wouldnt be wise of me to speak too much of it, but i will say that what the prophets sought forgiveness for was for a mcuh higher standard of character. for example, the prophet :saw: used to seek forgiveness for not doing an optional act he usually did.
              Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                Originally posted by masterridley View Post
                No, I'm an agnostic so trust me, it has nothing to do with Jesus. My intention is not to attack Islam either.

                Rather my intention is to understand where this unsupported claim made by all four traditional (ie old) schools comes from. The Qur'an says that Muhammad is incapable of failing at conveying the Word of Allah correctly, but it is nowhere said that his personal life is perfect or indeed perfectly moral.

                Everywhere I ask, I'm told "Muhammad is the perfect human being", "he's the most moral of all" etc. Yet no one knows where this is said, it is just something old guys centuries ago concluded. And we know those are not infallible either!!

                I think it's very important cause it would mean that things that were very moral, even progressive, at the time of Muhammad (like treating your slaves well etc) are not moral today (eg slavery is not permitted at all).


                Prophet Muhammad and all other Prophets were the leaders for mankind and our Prophet was the best example as per the Quran and a very petty mistake of our Prophet, such as paying more attention to the leaders of Quraish and just getting frustrated to a blind man who was disturbing at that important moment of meeting with leaders is admonished by Allah in sura 80,shows not even a minor mistake of Prophet did not go without a rebuke. So all his mistakes have already been exposed immediately in the Noble Quran.

                So his every action is followed by the Ummah and its a Sunnah a virtue. All the Duas he made is for teaching us not for himselves. Example he asked a Dua 'O Allah save me from Kufar & poverty' But at the same time he liked very much to live poor some times he was hungry even for 3 days so as you claim he prayed to forgive him is only to teach us how frequently we should pray for forgiveness when such the Noblest Soul still asked for forgiveness. Similarly when he was badly stonned on the Day of preaching at Taif he did not curse them but rebuked himself, his inability to convey his Message, Subhanallah such was his HUMILITY and the Most Noblest of Character.

                Living a noble pure life as a Priest is not a great thing because there are no chances to sin but living with the society among bad people and temptations but still living a Pure life is the greatest act any human can do. Prophet lived in the worst society but lived a pure life even before and after Prophet hood still when Allah already guaranteed to wipe away all his sins. Once during the battle of Badr while arranging the rows Prophet mistakenly poked a soldiers stomach a little harder ordering to stand properly in the row on which the soldier got upset on seeing which Prophet removed his shirt immediately and asked that person to take revenge, Subhanallah where you could you find in the world such a King ? When Allah guaranteed him salvation already and to be the Prophet with converting the Uhud mountain into Gold but still be in the same status of Prophet hood he refused to choose that but prayed that he want to fill up his stomach one day and be hungry the next day so as to pray to his Lord, Allah swt. So it shows even if he did not pray for his forgiveness he will still have the same status and even as the richest man in the world but he opted the opposite.


                Hope these few examples will make you understand why were those of his prayers of forgiveness from Allah swt.
                My sect - No Sect

                My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                Just a Muslim

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                  Bump
                  My sect - No Sect

                  My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                  Just a Muslim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                    bump
                    My sect - No Sect

                    My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                    Just a Muslim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                      Originally posted by masterridley View Post
                      I posted this in another forum and I did not receive a satisfactory answer. I don't want to hear interpretations and fiqhs coming from fallible people. I want to be shown where it says so in the Qur'an and the ahadith! Thanks in advance.

                      ...

                      So, we have this from sahih Bukhari:

                      8.407: Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet used to invoke Allah with the following invocation: "O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds and what you know better than I. O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly. You are the One Who makes the things go before and You are the One Who delays them, and You are the Omnipotent."

                      ...

                      If Muhammad himself was praying for forgiveness for sins that he may have committed, then why do muslims think he's perfect and incapable of sinning? Do they know more than he does? Are they calling him a liar? Cause he certainly seems to think that he's capable of sinning.

                      IMO, this doctrine is completely indefensible. In http://islamqa.info/en/42216, nothing is given to support the infallibility of Muhammad with regards to sins. Only the ability of the prophet to convey the message of Allah infallibly is proven extensively (with references to hadith, quran etc)

                      ...

                      For the rest, the site has only this to say:

                      Secondly: With regard to the Prophets as people, they may make mistakes. This may be discussed as follows:

                      1 –They do not commit major sins
                      With regard to major sins, the Prophets do not commit major sins at all, and they are protected from such major sins both before their missions began or afterwards.

                      Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/319:
                      The view that the Prophets are infallible and protected against committing major sins, as opposed to minor sins, is the view of the majority of Muslim scholars and of all groups. It is also the view of the scholars of tafseer and hadeeth and ***aha’. Indeed, nothing has been narrated from any of the salaf, imams, Sahaabah, Taabi’een and those who followed them except that which is in accordance with this view.


                      ...

                      So it's just a naked appeal to majority opinion of flawed humans. Nothing exists in Islamic scripture to suggest that Muhammad is incapable of sinning in matters unrelated to conveying the Message. (on the contrary, he himself says otherwise). Why then do the 4 schools continue to support this baseless doctrine (along with the majority of muslims)?
                      Let me givs u example..

                      A person who live his life in good manner,so he felt that he never did any sin and never hurt anyone..and we also some time feel like this..because we think we did not any mistake or sin..

                      Prophet muhammad asking for forgiveness that does not mean that he commited something wrong and now asking for forgiveness..if you will see it from other angle then u will find that "even we know we did not did any mistake but still we repent and ask for forgiveness which show our faith,love in God..its also show us that there is no "ego"..
                      Even we know we did nothing but we repent and ask.for.forgiveness thats indicate that we dont have ego show and our love,faith in god

                      Second point..
                      This also give messg to people that prophet have much knowldge and choosen by god but still he.dont have any kind of ego or proud..and this give good msg to people...

                      If you did nothing but u will ask for forgiveness then it will show that u r free from.ego,proud etc..and u have strong faith and love in God...i hope u got my point..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                        Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post


                        Prophet Muhammad and all other Prophets were the leaders for mankind and our Prophet was the best example as per the Quran and a very petty mistake of our Prophet, such as paying more attention to the leaders of Quraish and just getting frustrated to a blind man who was disturbing at that important moment of meeting with leaders is admonished by Allah in sura 80,shows not even a minor mistake of Prophet did not go without a rebuke. So all his mistakes have already been exposed immediately in the Noble Quran.

                        So his every action is followed by the Ummah and its a Sunnah a virtue. All the Duas he made is for teaching us not for himselves. Example he asked a Dua 'O Allah save me from Kufar & poverty' But at the same time he liked very much to live poor some times he was hungry even for 3 days so as you claim he prayed to forgive him is only to teach us how frequently we should pray for forgiveness when such the Noblest Soul still asked for forgiveness. Similarly when he was badly stonned on the Day of preaching at Taif he did not curse them but rebuked himself, his inability to convey his Message, Subhanallah such was his HUMILITY and the Most Noblest of Character.

                        Living a noble pure life as a Priest is not a great thing because there are no chances to sin but living with the society among bad people and temptations but still living a Pure life is the greatest act any human can do. Prophet lived in the worst society but lived a pure life even before and after Prophet hood still when Allah already guaranteed to wipe away all his sins. Once during the battle of Badr while arranging the rows Prophet mistakenly poked a soldiers stomach a little harder ordering to stand properly in the row on which the soldier got upset on seeing which Prophet removed his shirt immediately and asked that person to take revenge, Subhanallah where you could you find in the world such a King ? When Allah guaranteed him salvation already and to be the Prophet with converting the Uhud mountain into Gold but still be in the same status of Prophet hood he refused to choose that but prayed that he want to fill up his stomach one day and be hungry the next day so as to pray to his Lord, Allah swt. So it shows even if he did not pray for his forgiveness he will still have the same status and even as the richest man in the world but he opted the opposite.


                        Hope these few examples will make you understand why were those of his prayers of forgiveness from Allah swt.
                        Assalamualaikum, brother! :D

                        Nice answer. :up:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                          Prophets ( peace on all ) are immune from mistakes as far as messages are concerned. They cannot make mistakes in matters of conveying religion.

                          In personal life they are capable of sins , the capability is there , but they restrain themselves . Though they may make mistakes ( some may call that minor sins )

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                            Have you ever thought to eat your pee !
                            prophets are so knowledgeable that they see sins like dirty things, so they never get near sins, it is out of knowledge and wisdom.
                            Note: I am a shia.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why do muslims believe that Muhammad is incapable of sinning?

                              The first text is from “Al-Fiqh al-Akbar” the book of Imam Abu Hanifa:

                              “Prophets are protected from major and minor sins, but there is a possibility of mistake or error.”

                              The second text is from “Sharh al-Fiqh al-Akbar” from Imam Abu ‘l-Muntaha al-Maghnisawi;

                              ''Prophets are protected from major and minor sins before and after the Prophethood…”he continues;“but there could be errors and mistakes…”

                              further he states;”Imam Nasafi said
                              ''Samarkandi Scholars do not [even] allow the attribution of the word ‘‘zillah” (errors) to the prophets because it could imply some sort of sin. But [one should instead] say; Khilaf al-Awla….”
                              :GB_bonesrock:
                              And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

                              Comment

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