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Stumped by a Quranist

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  • Stumped by a Quranist

    I was debating a with quranist on youtube and we began debating hadiths. Somehow our conversation ended up on the hadith of unrelated men and women being alone. He sent me this verse:

    "You {believing men} do nothing wrong when you announce your engagement to women, or when you keep it between yourselves. Allah knows that you will think of them. But do not make secret appointments to see them, unless you will engage in conscientious conversations. And do not confirm the marital tie until the prescribed (waiting) period (from a previous divorce) is over. Know that Allah knows what is in your minds, so beware of Him, and know that Allah is All-Forgiving, Forbearing." (Qur'an 2:235)

    He said this verse permits unrelated people of the opposite sex to be alone as long as their intentions are pure. I haven't checked other translations yet, so I'm not sure if this is a reliable translation.
    I have other questions related to the hadith, which I will bring later, but hopefully people can clear up this confusion.

  • #2
    Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

    Title should read "Stumped by a Quranist". I'm on a phone so its difficult to write properly.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

      Assalamualaikum warahmatullah wabarakatuhu brother Ali :)

      I'm happy that you made a good effort to debate with this quranist. It's simply very evil what they've done, trying to deny what our Prophet has said in the hadiths.

      I recommend that you checked other translations, because other translations may not say anything about secret meetings. And even if there is a secret meeting, we may not know how to conduct such meetings; maybe we can only do it behind wall, or etc.

      Here is a website you can check for different translations: Link here

      And maybe you can share these verses with him:


      "And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah" (Quran 4:64)


      "But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad],
      judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves
      no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission."
      (Quran 4:65)


      Hope this post helps. :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

        Assalamualaikum,

        If you don't mind, can you share the youtube link on where your debate is taking place? :)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

          And this is the problem with ordinary Muslims interpreting the Quran by personal opinion which is unlawful. Here is the translation in Dar us Salaams "Tafsir Ibn Kathir of the above verse:

          "And there is no sin on you if you make a hint of betrothal or conceal it in yourself, Allah knows that you will remember them, but do not make a promise (of contract) with them in secret except that you speak an honorable saying. And do not be determined on the marriage bond until the term prescribed is fulfilled. And know that Allah knows what is in your minds, so fear Him. And know that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing." 2:235

          It is important to seek a reliable tafseer when wanting to find out the explanation or cause of revelation of Surahs in general and Ayats in particular.
          "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

            Originally posted by Musbah View Post
            And this is the problem with ordinary Muslims interpreting the Quran by personal opinion which is unlawful. Here is the translation in Dar us Salaams "Tafsir Ibn Kathir of the above verse:
            Exactly. You cannot just derive laws on your own personal opinion and desire from English translation of Quran. What is the sciences like tafsir, nahw and balagha stands for, for example? Ask back these Quranists : if you think you can just live Islam by Quran alone, then how do you establish salaah? What times should you establish salaah? When did you pay zakat and how to calculate it? While Quran tells repeatedly "establish prayer and pay zakat".


            Refutations to Quranists

            And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

              Youtube debates eh... those rarely end well.
              Collection of Arabic Learning material and Islamic Books



              Away for a bit

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

                Dn't waste your time on youtube debates. They are a complete waste of time.
                Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Stumpes by a Quranist

                  Its time you stump Quranists with your Googly

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Stumped by a Quranist

                    Originally posted by Ali101 View Post
                    I was debating a with quranist on youtube and we began debating hadiths. Somehow our conversation ended up on the hadith of unrelated men and women being alone. He sent me this verse:

                    "You {believing men} do nothing wrong when you announce your engagement to women, or when you keep it between yourselves. Allah knows that you will think of them. But do not make secret appointments to see them, unless you will engage in conscientious conversations. And do not confirm the marital tie until the prescribed (waiting) period (from a previous divorce) is over. Know that Allah knows what is in your minds, so beware of Him, and know that Allah is All-Forgiving, Forbearing." (Qur'an 2:235)

                    He said this verse permits unrelated people of the opposite sex to be alone as long as their intentions are pure. I haven't checked other translations yet, so I'm not sure if this is a reliable translation.
                    I have other questions related to the hadith, which I will bring later, but hopefully people can clear up this confusion.
                    Apologize for posting in a old topic. But I like to say something here.

                    First of all, I am a "quranist" too. And the quranist you are talking about is either a liar or uneducated. God strictly says in the Quran that we should not quote verses apart from each other.
                    So the first thing I did to verify the claim of this Quranist, is to check the other verses. And the truth is that the above verse does not speak about women in generally. It speaks about women who's husband has passed away, the verse that came before this verse says so.

                    Look at the word: "interrim", it appears in both verses, it is another evidence that these verses are related with each other.

                    Here is the Quranic translation that I use:

                    [2:234] Those of you who die and leave wives, their widows shall keep themselves in waiting four months and ten days. Then once they fulfil their interim, there shall be no blame on you regarding what they wish to do with themselves equitably, and God is fully aware of what you do.

                    [2:235] You commit no error if you announce your engagement to the women, or you keep it to yourself. God knows that you will think about them, but do not make secret arrangements with them, rather only speak with righteousness. Do not contract the marriage until the interim is fulfilled, and you should know that God knows your innermost thoughts, so beware of Him, and know that God is Forgiver, Forbearing.
                    Quranism is a individual-lead religion. So I am not going to apologize for the Quranist who lied to you. I hope this clarifies a lot.

                    Salaam, your Quranist brother, Dakhan.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Stumped by a Quranist

                      At least you have acknowledged that you were stamped. Most "Quran+Hadith" muslims rarely acknowledge when they are stumped. Hopefully, you are heading to the right path.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Stumped by a Quranist

                        Stumped that he didn't check other translations?
                        Say what somebody can do instead of the haram if you want to help.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Stumped by a Quranist

                          Does it really matter when he's not even one of us? Next we'll have to provide evidence from the Bible and debate with Christians.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Stumped by a Quranist

                            If you're stumped by a so-called 'Quranist' it just means that you don't know Islam very well.

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