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  • #16
    Re: Knowledge will be taken away

    Originally posted by lala24 View Post
    btw
    walaikum salam wr , brother kindly explain what does 'btw' means whats this , I am belong to the oldies am not familiar with the mpdern slang except lol thru youtubes
    My sect - No Sect

    My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

    Just a Muslim

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Knowledge will be taken away

      Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
      walaikum salam wr , brother kindly explain what does 'btw' means whats this , I am belong to the oldies am not familiar with the mpdern slang except lol thru youtubes
      I'm sorry brother, it is meant by the way btw, lol..
      Please forgive me if I have ever offended you. :jkk:

      My Humble Blog..

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Knowledge will be taken away

        Knowledge will be taken away by the death of the Ulema. That was what the narration said. And there is a time will come, when Allah will lift the Quran from this world in a single night, and not 1 bit of it will remain except some people who'll say we used to hear our ancestors saying la ilaha ilalah and so they say it as well.

        I'll post the narrations from the book i got on this.
        Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

        How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

        Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Knowledge will be taken away

          Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
          asalam. Jazakallah khair for your thoughts.

          There is hadith in which a sahabi asks prophet( sal ) how would be knowledge taken away when we teach qur'an to our children and they will teach to their's but prophet replied something like that i thought u were wise but jews and christians do teach their books to their children and how it was taken away and..................? ? Whats the other portion ? Still searching...........................inshallah , we will find it because its vvvvvvvvvvvvery important for the ''ummah' to know the root cause of the disease so that as the say ''prevention is better than the cure''
          Assalamalaikum,

          It took nearly four months to find this Complete Hadith its a sahih. Alhamdulilah.

          Ziyad ibn Labeed reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There will be a time when knowledge disappears.” I said, “O Messenger of Allah, how can knowledge disappear when we read the Quran and we will teach it to our children until the Day of Resurrection?” The Prophet said, “May your mother be bereft of you, Ziyad! I thought you were the wisest man in Medina. Do not these Jews and Christians read the Torah and the Gospel but they do not act upon what is in them?”

          Source: Sunan Ibn Majah 4048

          Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Ibn Kathir

          The Reply is Knowledge will disappear Or Taken Away If you DO NOT ACT upon what is in them. May Allah swt gives the Hidayat to act on it which we know, Ameen
          My sect - No Sect

          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

          Just a Muslim

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Knowledge will be taken away

            Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
            Assalam alaikum Brothers & Sisters

            Forgot to add, that this hadith of seeking knowledge in China was a 'mashur' ( meaning famous) Hadith so famous that people began to think it became an idiom used in day today life as it was quoted frequently when ANY ONE talking about education and some felt it was NOT A HADITH AT ALL (just an idiom) , but when education ITSELF was forgotten (as I refer above the Muslims lost momentum.......knowledge being taken away) than why remember the Hadith about it but even if it was remembered but its ''PURPOSE'' was forgotten, It was thought it means the 'religious education' ONLY. Similarly was the difference of opinion in Compilation of Quran of Abdullah Ibn Masud(ra) about sura Fathiha (1) &113 & 114 when it was very 'Mashur' or FAMOUS recited every day frequently by the people for all sort of illness and Cures and Abdullah Ibn Masud(ra) (One among the 4 best reciters -hadith) even thought them (3 suras) as a great DUA and felt they need not kept in the Quran since EVERYONE KNOWS IT but when Usman or Othman(ra) and Ali and all other sahabas agreed UNANIMOUSLY and the first Quran compilation of Abu Bakr(ra) did not vary with Othmans(ra) copy ( hence not burnt the FIRST Quran copy and returned to Hafsa(ra)) the three suras were left in the Quran as it is now (see thread why did the Goat eat sura)

            SOME Muslims think Religion and world affairs are two different sectors of life which will be wrong and CONTRARY If These verses 51:56 and 22:78 ''
            are taken into account. quran 51:56 says as per Yusuf ali translation '' I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.'' and others translate 'serve'' as 'worship'
            Quran 22:78 says (Yusuf Ali) '' and strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion...............''

            WHO can speak TRUTH more than Allah swt WHO can be more ''JUST OR FAIR'' THAN Allah SWT ? and if we take these 2 verses as the understanding( religion and world was different even Prophet (sal) couldn't have IMPLEMENTED THIS COMMANDMENT because he has to take care of his worldly needs in search of food, live with his children, wives etc etc etc) and Allah wants to ONLY Worship him ALWAYS and also says he does not want to give difficulties to us (still many verses say this)

            This is what when Prophet (sal) meant in His Last Haj Sermon by asking people something like '' have I fullfilled the DEEN of Islam ? (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...arewell-Sermon)

            '' Toward the end of his sermon, Muhammad asked "O people, have I faithfully delivered unto you my message?" A powerful murmur of assent "O Allah, yes!", arose from thousands of pilgrims and the vibrant words "Allahumma na’m"

            Question--) How did they CONFIRM 'YES', How did they KNOW ''THE MESSAGE'' WAS COMPLETE ? ( When IT was just A REVELATION between ALLAH & HIS PROPHET only and only with Quran) ?

            Its because The code of life of everyone(Rich Or Poor) right from waking up in the morning untill sleeping in the night was shown by Prophet(sal), there was almost no question unanswered regarding leading our life so this was Deen ul Al Islam. Thats why he said ''O People, No prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words

            thats why Allah says in Qur'an 3:31 ''Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

            This is what 'WORSHIP' OR "SERVE'' in the above verses 51:56 & 22:78 MEANS

            That's why there are many Hadith on all topics of life including the Necessity to search of wealth (backbone of life) in THE HALAL way so that you can take care of your family which is also Ibadah ( worship or serve ALLAH by serving your family )A Hadith says something like this, marrying and taking care of your family if HALF of Islam, earning money in halal way is ibadah (worship or serve ALLAH), who strives to earn halal money is in jihad. One who dies in this struggle is a Martyr. ALLAH ORDERS in Quran its the duty of a Man to protect and provide food,clothing ,care to his WIFE . Feeding a morsel to your wife is a charity, sex with her is ibadah, Companions asked Prophet we do that for our enjoyment and need then how come it was ibadah ? Prophet said something like did n't you abstain having sex with those they who were not your wives for the sake of ALLAH swt, if that was a virtue and doing HALAL SEX is also an act which Allah swt allowed and you will be rewarded for listening to Allah . . (this are not exact words of hadith)
            Once Prophet noticed A companion was always in the Masjid Prophet enquired him does he have a family ? he told his brother takes care of his family, Prophet replied something like this your brother is better than you..

            This is Islam all about with a WIDE meaning, TAKING CARE OF OUR FAMILY IS IBADAH, ACT OF WORSHIP. All our acts even in the Masjid or outside the masjid if they were '''HALAL'''' or in ''THE SUNNAH WAY'' all will be included in Ibadah or worship or serve ALLAH swt PROVIDED its is not done for show off or for a name from the people but to seek the PLEASURE OF ALLAH swt ONLY

            Islam does not encourage Monkhood but wants its followers to marry as it is the sunnah of all Prophets and earn SUSTENANCE for which we have to seek knowledge even if we have to go as far as China. SO YOUR SEEKING KNOWLEDGE WITH THE '' INTENTION of IKHLAS''(seeking Pleasure of Allah Swt) TO EARN HALAL MONEY IS AN ACT OF WORSHIP. ALLAH, AR RAHMAN, AL WADOOD, is searching REASONS to GIVE rewards and virtues to his slaves in ever way possible NO WONDER he claims he is 70 times more loving than our own mother.

            May Allah guide us to the real understanding of his Deen al Islam , Ameen.
            This is a Bump, but with more & clear Information on the same topic if this post # 11 which is Ibadah where Muslims have to know more & clear Misconceptions
            from this old thread of 2011 ''http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?283309-Ibadah-worship-in-Islam

            May Allah swt gives us the True undestanding of his Deen & Hidayat to follow it, Ameen.
            My sect - No Sect

            My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

            Just a Muslim

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Knowledge will be taken away

              Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
              This is a Bump, but with more & clear Information on the same topic if this post # 11 which is Ibadah where Muslims have to know more & clear Misconceptions
              from this old thread of 2011 ''http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?283309-Ibadah-worship-in-Islam

              May Allah swt gives us the True undestanding of his Deen & Hidayat to follow it, Ameen.

              Correct link : http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...rship-in-Islam
              My sect - No Sect

              My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

              Just a Muslim

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                Originally posted by lifesci
                No, i dont think we have reached that stage yet. We have instead reached an earlier stage that is defined in Islamic texts as: "knowledge will be widespread, but ignorance, rampant".
                Reference please from which Islamic texts ? kindly explain, jzk
                My sect - No Sect

                My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                Just a Muslim

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                  Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                  Assalam alaikum Brothers & Sisters

                  Forgot to add, that this hadith of seeking knowledge in China was a 'mashur' ( meaning famous) Hadith so famous that people began to think it became an idiom used in day today life as it was quoted frequently when ANY ONE talking about education and some felt it was NOT A HADITH AT ALL (just an idiom) , but when education ITSELF was forgotten (as I refer above the Muslims lost momentum.......knowledge being taken away) than why remember the Hadith about it but even if it was remembered but its ''PURPOSE'' was forgotten, It was thought it means the 'religious education' ONLY. Similarly was the difference of opinion in Compilation of Quran of Abdullah Ibn Masud(ra) about sura Fathiha (1) &113 & 114 when it was very 'Mashur' or FAMOUS recited every day frequently by the people for all sort of illness and Cures and Abdullah Ibn Masud(ra) (One among the 4 best reciters -hadith) even thought them (3 suras) as a great DUA and felt they need not kept in the Quran since EVERYONE KNOWS IT but when Usman or Othman(ra) and Ali and all other sahabas agreed UNANIMOUSLY and the first Quran compilation of Abu Bakr(ra) did not vary with Othmans(ra) copy ( hence not burnt the FIRST Quran copy and returned to Hafsa(ra)) the three suras were left in the Quran as it is now (see thread why did the Goat eat sura)

                  SOME Muslims think Religion and world affairs are two different sectors of life which will be wrong and CONTRARY If These verses 51:56 and 22:78 ''
                  are taken into account. quran 51:56 says as per Yusuf ali translation '' I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.'' and others translate 'serve'' as 'worship'
                  Quran 22:78 says (Yusuf Ali) '' and strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion...............''

                  WHO can speak TRUTH more than Allah swt WHO can be more ''JUST OR FAIR'' THAN Allah SWT ? and if we take these 2 verses as the understanding( religion and world was different even Prophet (sal) couldn't have IMPLEMENTED THIS COMMANDMENT because he has to take care of his worldly needs in search of food, live with his children, wives etc etc etc) and Allah wants to ONLY Worship him ALWAYS and also says he does not want to give difficulties to us (still many verses say this)

                  This is what when Prophet (sal) meant in His Last Haj Sermon by asking people something like '' have I fullfilled the DEEN of Islam ? (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...arewell-Sermon)

                  '' Toward the end of his sermon, Muhammad asked "O people, have I faithfully delivered unto you my message?" A powerful murmur of assent "O Allah, yes!", arose from thousands of pilgrims and the vibrant words "Allahumma na’m"

                  Question--) How did they CONFIRM 'YES', How did they KNOW ''THE MESSAGE'' WAS COMPLETE ? ( When IT was just A REVELATION between ALLAH & HIS PROPHET only and only with Quran) ?

                  Its because The code of life of everyone(Rich Or Poor) right from waking up in the morning untill sleeping in the night was shown by Prophet(sal), there was almost no question unanswered regarding leading our life so this was Deen ul Al Islam. Thats why he said ''O People, No prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words

                  thats why Allah says in Qur'an 3:31 ''Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

                  This is what 'WORSHIP' OR "SERVE'' in the above verses 51:56 & 22:78 MEANS

                  That's why there are many Hadith on all topics of life including the Necessity to search of wealth (backbone of life) in THE HALAL way so that you can take care of your family which is also Ibadah ( worship or serve ALLAH by serving your family )A Hadith says something like this, marrying and taking care of your family if HALF of Islam, earning money in halal way is ibadah (worship or serve ALLAH), who strives to earn halal money is in jihad. One who dies in this struggle is a Martyr. ALLAH ORDERS in Quran its the duty of a Man to protect and provide food,clothing ,care to his WIFE . Feeding a morsel to your wife is a charity, sex with her is ibadah, Companions asked Prophet we do that for our enjoyment and need then how come it was ibadah ? Prophet said something like did n't you abstain having sex with those they who were not your wives for the sake of ALLAH swt, if that was a virtue and doing HALAL SEX is also an act which Allah swt allowed and you will be rewarded for listening to Allah . . (this are not exact words of hadith)
                  Once Prophet noticed A companion was always in the Masjid Prophet enquired him does he have a family ? he told his brother takes care of his family, Prophet replied something like this your brother is better than you..

                  This is Islam all about with a WIDE meaning, TAKING CARE OF OUR FAMILY IS IBADAH, ACT OF WORSHIP. All our acts even in the Masjid or outside the masjid if they were '''HALAL'''' or in ''THE SUNNAH WAY'' all will be included in Ibadah or worship or serve ALLAH swt PROVIDED its is not done for show off or for a name from the people but to seek the PLEASURE OF ALLAH swt ONLY

                  Islam does not encourage Monkhood but wants its followers to marry as it is the sunnah of all Prophets and earn SUSTENANCE for which we have to seek knowledge even if we have to go as far as China. SO YOUR SEEKING KNOWLEDGE WITH THE '' INTENTION of IKHLAS''(seeking Pleasure of Allah Swt) TO EARN HALAL MONEY IS AN ACT OF WORSHIP. ALLAH, AR RAHMAN, AL WADOOD, is searching REASONS to GIVE rewards and virtues to his slaves in ever way possible NO WONDER he claims he is 70 times more loving than our own mother.

                  May Allah guide us to the real understanding of his Deen al Islam , Ameen.
                  From the above quote we know ilm refers to Islamic knowledge but it also refers of ilm of earning Halal Rizk which is ibadah if you study with right intention for proving your family and their Protection and the ilm of this world is also necessary for the Ummah for the Islamic state you live in for providing various Amenities for the welfare of the society. Consider everyone is an aalim,Mufti and hafiz and who is going to serve the daily needs of the people. Doctors, engineers, Constructors,Scientists,Military personal etc. So Ilm refers to Religious knowledge Which is a MUST but we need academics also for abiding the following verse.

                  Allah says in quran '' 8:60
                  ''Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the
                  enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in
                  the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly ''.


                  Since we took the China hadith as weak we never took strain to abide by the above verse to maximise knowledge ( Academic ALSO) for the know how of our military and we became laggards in those fields making us only net importers of expensive & second quality Arms or in other words we have become a dump yard for them. You can never expect the kuffar to give the best of the Arms even though you might be close to them.
                  My sect - No Sect

                  My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                  Just a Muslim

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                    ‘Allah does not take away knowledge from the chests of His servants, but He takes away knowledge by the death of scholars, until, when there are no more scholars remaining, the people take ignorant leaders (i.e., as scholars). And these leaders will be asked (by the people), and they will respond without any knowledge, and they will be misguided, and misguide others.” (Sahih Bukhari)


                    “Islam will disappear just like the colours of a dress fade away, until people will not even know what fasting, prayer, the rites (of Hajj) and charity are. And the Book of Allah will be lifted up one night, so that not even one verse will remain. And a group of old people will remain, who will say, ‘We found our forefathers on this kalimah: Laa ilaaha ila Allaah, so we too say it.”’ (Ibn Majah, Sahih Jami)


                    “It (Qur'an) will be raised up one night, towards the very end of time, from the mushaf and the chests of men, so not a single word will remain in the hearts, nor will a single letter remain in the mushaf” (Ibn Taymiyyah)


                    And all the heavens go their way.... And only change is here to stay...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                      Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                      From the above quote we know ilm refers to Islamic knowledge but it also refers of ilm of earning Halal Rizk which is ibadah if you study with right intention for proving your family and their Protection and the ilm of this world is also necessary for the Ummah for the Islamic state you live in for providing various Amenities for the welfare of the society. Consider everyone is an aalim,Mufti and hafiz and who is going to serve the daily needs of the people. Doctors, engineers, Constructors,Scientists,Military personal etc. So Ilm refers to Religious knowledge Which is a MUST but we need academics also for abiding the following verse.

                      Allah says in quran '' 8:60
                      ''Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly ''.


                      Since we took the China hadith as weak we never took strain to abide by the above verse to maximise knowledge ( Academic ALSO) for the know how of our military and we became laggards in those fields making us only net importers of expensive & second quality Arms or in other words we have become a dump yard for them. You can never expect the kuffar to give the best of the Arms even though you might be close to them.
                      In support of hadith going to China in search of knowledge.

                      The First person who thought it was a fabricated hadith was a Poet named Ibn Al Qaysarni who was cheering Muslims during Crusades that had made The Muslim Ummah to lag in learning . As per Quran poets are viewed as exaggerators

                      Quran 26:24 ''And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them'':

                      and this link makes it all clear

                      http://www.sunnah.org/sources/hadith_utlub_ilm.htm

                      Al-Mizzi said it has so many chains that it deserves a grade of fair (hasan)

                      The first to declare the "China" hadith forged seems to be Ibn al-Qaysarani (d. 507) in his Ma`rifa al-Tadhkira (p. 101 #118).
                      This grading was kept by Ibn al-Jawzee in his Mawdu`at but rejected, among others, by al-Suyuti in al-La'ali' (1:193), al-Mizzi,
                      al-Dhahabi in Talkhis al-Wahiyat, al-Bajuri's student Shams al-Din al-Qawuqji (d. 1305) in his book al-Lu'lu' al-Marsu` (p. 40 #49),
                      and notably by the Indian muhaddith Muhammad Taahir al-Fattani (d. 986) in his Tadhkira al-Mawdu`at (p. 17) in which he declares
                      it hasan.

                      Originally posted by Abdur Raheem :)
                      :salams

                      Rasulullah :saw: said "seek knowledge" and when someone was teaching it to others, he added "Even if you have to go to China" and whoever collected this hadith assumed that Rasulullah :saw: said that as well.

                      This is what Mufti Menk said.
                      And also kindly read my post #23 with the quote(in blue)
                      My sect - No Sect

                      My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                      Just a Muslim

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                        جمهور أهل العلم بالحديث قد حكموا على هذا الحديث بأنه ضعيف من جميع طرقه

                        The majority of people of knowledge of Hadith have ruled that this Hadith (about China) is weak in all its routes.

                        العجلوني

                        الألباني

                        العقيلي

                        ابن عدي

                        البيهقي

                        ابن القيسراني

                        ابن الجوزي

                        السخاوي

                        العجلوني

                        البزار

                        ابن حبان

                        ابن القيسراني

                        الذهبي

                        الزرقاني

                        ابن همات الدمشقي

                        ابن باز

                        القاوقجي

                        محمد ابن عبد الوهاب

                        ابن تيمية


                        Al-Sunnah org clearly did not highlight this did they. All the above masters of Hadith are aware that a Hadith becomes Hasan li Ghayri if the number of routes are many.

                        But, there are conditions to this principle and not ever Hadith becomes authentic simply because of many routes. Unfortunately, Al-Sunnah totally forgot to mention this.
                        Watch those eyes

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                          Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                          جمهور أهل العلم بالحديث قد حكموا على هذا الحديث بأنه ضعيف من جميع طرقه

                          The majority of people of knowledge of Hadith have ruled that this Hadith (about China) is weak in all its routes.

                          العجلوني

                          الألباني

                          العقيلي

                          ابن عدي

                          البيهقي

                          ابن القيسراني

                          ابن الجوزي

                          السخاوي

                          العجلوني

                          البزار

                          ابن حبان

                          ابن القيسراني

                          الذهبي

                          الزرقاني

                          ابن همات الدمشقي

                          ابن باز

                          القاوقجي

                          محمد ابن عبد الوهاب

                          ابن تيمية


                          Al-Sunnah org clearly did not highlight this did they. All the above masters of Hadith are aware that a Hadith becomes Hasan li Ghayri if the number of routes are many.

                          But, there are conditions to this principle and not ever Hadith becomes authentic simply because of many routes. Unfortunately, Al-Sunnah totally forgot to mention this.
                          Asalamalikum,

                          I do not want to argue about which I do not have knowledge about doubts & questions of LOGIC will remain unanswered Allahul waalam,
                          how could there be none who did not calll it a weak hadith untill for 600 years after Sahabas, Tabeens and Tabetabeens ? and it was declared weak for the First time by this Poet during Crusadein 1200 AD ? Did he (poet) became smarter than Sahabas, Tabeens and Tabetabeens ? and why it was called a 'Mashur' hadith ? why it was quoted by Mufti Menk ? wallahu aalam

                          So how about The studying of worldly knowledge for earning halal rizk and for the development of the Ummah as I had posted in the post # 23 (kindly read the quote in blue as well ) which according to my & others Conscience is ONE of the reason for Downfall of the Ummah since Islam includes many more things then only Prayer which is [/COLOR] as they could not live up to the Quran verse 8:60 . They become LAGGARDS in Military & defence which Allah swt ordered us to prepare ? So we have become Slaves of the Oppressors.

                          Your opinions please
                          My sect - No Sect

                          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                          Just a Muslim

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                            Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                            Asalamalikum,

                            I do not want to argue about which I do not have knowledge about doubts & questions of LOGIC will remain unanswered Allahul waalam,
                            how could there be none who did not calll it a weak hadith untill for 600 years after Sahabas, Tabeens and Tabetabeens ? and it was declared weak for the First time by this Poet during Crusadein 1200 AD ? Did he (poet) became smarter than Sahabas, Tabeens and Tabetabeens ? and why it was called a 'Mashur' hadith ? why it was quoted by Mufti Menk ? wallahu aalam

                            So how about The studying of worldly knowledge for earning halal rizk and for the development of the Ummah as I had posted in the post # 23 (kindly read the quote in blue as well ) which according to my & others Conscience is ONE of the reason for Downfall of the Ummah since Islam includes many more things then only Prayer which is [/COLOR] as they could not live up to the Quran verse 8:60 . They become LAGGARDS in Military & defence which Allah swt ordered us to prepare ? So we have become Slaves of the Oppressors.

                            Your opinions please
                            :salams

                            Brother, for starters, the person you referred to was the first to it declare it forged.

                            He was not the first to declare it weak.
                            Watch those eyes

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                              Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                              Asalamalikum,

                              I do not want to argue about which I do not have knowledge about doubts & questions of LOGIC will remain unanswered Allahul waalam,
                              how could there be none who did not calll it a weak hadith untill for 600 years after Sahabas, Tabeens and Tabetabeens ? and it was declared weak for the First time by this Poet during Crusadein 1200 AD ? Did he (poet) became smarter than Sahabas, Tabeens and Tabetabeens ? and why it was called a 'Mashur' hadith ? why it was quoted by Mufti Menk ? wallahu aalam

                              So how about The studying of worldly knowledge for earning halal rizk and for the development of the Ummah as I had posted in the post # 23 (kindly read the quote in blue as well ) which according to my & others Conscience is ONE of the reason for Downfall of the Ummah since Islam includes many more things then only Prayer which is [/COLOR] as they could not live up to the Quran verse 8:60 . They become LAGGARDS in Military & defence which Allah swt ordered us to prepare ? So we have become Slaves of the Oppressors.

                              Your opinions please
                              Second, simply because a Hadith is Mashoor does not make it authentic. A Mshoor Hadith can be acceptable or rejected. To understand this you first need to understand the terminology used in Hadith Science.

                              There are two types of Hadith: Mutawaatir and Ahad

                              Mutawaatir is a hadith which has been narrated by a very large number of narrators in each generation and what they are narrating is not something they could have all thought up by themselves and united on it. Mutawaatir are authentic and one needs not to check each chain.

                              The next type of Hadith is Ahad. This is any Hadith which has not full filled the conditions of being Mutawaatir. It is of three types: Mashoor, 'Aziz, and Ghareeb.

                              A mashoor is a Hadith which has three or more people narrating it in every generation. This does not guarantee that it is authentic.

                              Finally, please remember that one must always refer to the scholars of the science. In this particular instance, this is a matter of Hadith. One needs to refer to a Muhaddith and not to a Mufti. A mufti deals with giving Fatwas. A Muhaddith deals with hadith. As I have already mentioned, the majority of the Muhaddith have declared it weak with some saying it is fabricated.

                              I have included a reference to online Fatwas for anyone wanting to confirm what I have written. Unfortunately, they are in Arabic. Information on many Islamic subjects is scarce in the English language.




                              The Mashoor Hadith, is it accepted or rejected

                              Types of Hadith and the meaning of Mutawaatir and Ahad....and the difference between the chain and text
                              Watch those eyes

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                              • #30
                                Re: Knowledge will be taken away

                                Havent read all posts but this a topic close to my heart

                                I think people are misunderstanding what it is meant by taking knowledge away. It doesn't mean quran will disappear or hadith or books will disappear per se

                                The best way to describe it is via the worshipping their ulema hadith

                                `Uday b. Hatim who said: I came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) wearing a gold collar around my neck: He said to me: “O `Uday, take it off as it is a pagan thing on your neck”. He said: I took it off and I went to him while he was reciting the chapter of Bara’a and he was reciting the following verse: {They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their priests…}. I asked: O Messenger of Allah, we don’t worship them and [The Prophet] replied: “but do they not make impermissible what Allah has made permissible and do they not make permissible what Allah has made impermissible and you do that?” I replied: ‘yes’ and he said: “then that it is [a form] worshipping them”…

                                Today we have 3 year alim courses from different groups, anyone with a degree will tell you you don't necessarily have knowledge with a degree just a piece of paper,
                                we have schools who only have prescribed books and prescribed shayookh and the pupils come out with the same outlook regardless of it being right or wrong

                                As Ibn Qayim ra said

                                ''Knowledge is not being able to narrate several accounts, but by being pious''

                                [al fawaid page 248]

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