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Concept of God: Pre-destination?

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  • UFM
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    yes , i am doing research on it . i just dont get the logic of it


    What is this Qadr , many say i am having all this problem due to lack of iman and belief in qadr. I find it ridiculous- the concept of Qadr. Allah has pre determined everything, he knows who will be in heaven and hell. All had been pre written, Then what is the logic in this so called TESTING. Isnt it kind of playing a FIXED MATCH ?? God is being cruel towards all the non muslims by making them not to believe and leading them to hell !!

    an extract from the following links below, please have a look at them as this is very detailed topic for me to try and explain:

    Belief in al-qadar is based on four things:

    1 – Knowledge, i.e., that Allaah knows what His creation will do, by virtue of His eternal knowledge.

    2 – Writing, i.e., that Allaah has written the destiny of all creatures in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz.

    3 – Will, i.e., that what Allaah wills happens and what He does not will does not happen. There is no movement in the heavens or on earth but it happens by His will.

    4 – Creation and formation, i.e., that Allaah is the Creator of all things, including the actions of His slaves. They do their actions in a real sense, and He is the Creator of them and of their actions.

    Whoever believes in these four believes in al-qadar.


    http://islamqa.info/en/123973

    http://islamqa.info/en/6287

    http://islamqa.info/en/20806

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by UFM View Post
    belief in qadr is one of the six articles of iman, i suggest you do some research on it. there should be no doubt
    yes , i am doing research on it . i just dont get the logic of it


    What is this Qadr , many say i am having all this problem due to lack of iman and belief in qadr. I find it ridiculous- the concept of Qadr. Allah has pre determined everything, he knows who will be in heaven and hell. All had been pre written, Then what is the logic in this so called TESTING. Isnt it kind of playing a FIXED MATCH ?? God is being cruel towards all the non muslims by making them not to believe and leading them to hell !!

    Leave a comment:


  • UFM
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    And to be honest , i do believe in a god. but m having doubts about the free will ,qadr etc !
    belief in qadr is one of the six articles of iman, i suggest you do some research on it. there should be no doubt

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    And u think , u aknow everything , u r the all wise ? Lmao
    No, but I look at the evidence and think for myself. As we all should.

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    so whats ur point really curious ? THERE IS NO GOD ??
    No. We cannot be 100% certain.
    However, there is no real, testable evidence for any of the gods.
    Also, almost everything that was once attributed to gods now has a real, natural explanation. On the other hand, nothing that once had a natural explanations is now attributed to gods.
    Of the few things left unexplained there is a better explanation than the supernatural, especially in light of the above.
    Every proper test has shown that prayer does not work.
    There has never been proof for any miracle other than hearsay.
    Then there are the philosophical questions like "the problem of evil".
    And the inaccuracies and contradictions in the sacred texts.

    So, taking everything into account, there is no good reason to think that he does exist.

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    And to be honest , i do believe in a god. but m having doubts about the free will ,qadr etc !

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    And u think , u aknow everything , u r the all wise ? Lmao

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    so whats ur point really curious ? THERE IS NO GOD ??

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Instead of reading the the fallacious partisan rhetoric of a Muslim apologist with a vested interest, why not try reading some of the actual science that Naik misunderstands (or deliberately misrepresents, you decide which)? The point of this science being to increase our understanding of the universe, not to disprove religion. The atheism comes as a result of our increased knowledge. Have you ever wondered why, generally, the more educated people become the less religious they are? It is no coincidence that over 95% of members of the American Academy of Science and the UK Royal Society are atheists.
    None of his arguments hold water. They are aimed at people who already believe so they can say, "look how clever our god/book/apologists are!".

    When I have the time, I will go through it point by point and will show that each one is either demonstrably wrong, philosophically flawed or just less likely or reasonable than a naturalistic explanation.

    The religious would elicit more of the respect that they continually demand if they just said "This is what I believe. I cannot prove it. It is simply a matter of faith". By trying to disprove science or, ironically, trying to use science to prove their belief, they weaken their already very flimsy case.

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    Reallycurious

    Are u trying to proove that
      1. [*No
      2. No
      3. No
      4. No
      5. No
      6. No
      7. No
      8. No

    1. (BTW, some of those questions required more than a Yes/No answer)


      YOU PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS , THEN WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE MERCY OF ALLAH SWT
    Just did. May I add that the questions show such a breathtaking lack of understanding of the issues that I sense an imminent game of pigeon chess.

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    http://www.islam101.com/religions/provingGodExists.htm
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Reallycurious

    Are u trying to proove that
      1. there is no God ??
      2. All this world and creatures had their origin owing to the big bang or something that happened spontaneously ?
      3. there will be no afterlife and once u die , everything is over ?
      4. the life on earth should be perfect , no illness , no wars, no natural disasters - just like how we imagine in our dreams ?
      5. what is death and if man and science was so powerful , y didnt even a single person escape death ?
      6. if human beings are just homo sapiens - a species of animals - why do they dress , eat cooked food , travels in vehicles and raise such questions ( we cant expect a cow to participate in this discussion , can we ?? :P )
      7. learn about human body , what a wonderful creation it is !! could it have happened just like that
      8. now, have u ever read the quraan ?? do u think it was just the creation of a man ? how on earth can u believe an illiterate nomadic arab man talking about embryology , origin of life from water etc 1400 years back ??



    1. YOU PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS , THEN WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE MERCY OF ALLAH SWT

    Leave a comment:


  • kh4N
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
    This shows exactly why religion is a dangerous thing.
    If you really love your god more than you love your children, then you don't deserve to have them. You are a poor excuse for a parent. As I said, you need to have a long, hard think about your priorities.

    That's not an ad hom. That's a statement of fact.

    Do you really think that a loving, just and merciful god would want you to put him before your children? If he does, then he does not deserve worship.


    “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
    ― Steven Weinberg
    You are entitled to your opinion, as deluded as it may be.

    Don't allow your emotions to cloud your judgement. There's a difference between
    I love God and nothing else matters
    And
    I love God more than anything else.

    I might love my children more than you love your children whilst loving God more than my own children at the same time. So much for your "facts" right?
    Last edited by kh4N; 11-11-13, 03:39 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kh4N View Post
    I don't love my children more than God.
    This shows exactly why religion is a dangerous thing.
    If you really love your god more than you love your children, then you don't deserve to have them. You are a poor excuse for a parent. As I said, you need to have a long, hard think about your priorities.

    That's not an ad hom. That's a statement of fact.

    Do you really think that a loving, just and merciful god would want you to put him before your children? If he does, then he does not deserve worship.


    “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
    ― Steven Weinberg

    Leave a comment:


  • kh4N
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
    So Allah needlessly kills millions of innocent children because he feels like it, and you're happy with that. In fact you think they would choose to die anyway.

    He's not worthy of worship and you need to take a long, hard look at yourself pal.

    By the way, to any person with a sense of morality, it is never justified. But to the religious, to whom anything is moral if they think it's OK with their god, it can be justified. Both sad and sick.

    If you can't come up with anything better than "whatever god does is good, so don't question him", don't bother replying. You're only making it worse.
    Im happy those children are in a better place.

    Your post reeks of emotion and ad hominems. Come back when you have something constructive to respond with.

    You asked me what I'd like for my children and I said I'm willing to accept whatever God wills for them.

    I don't love my children more than God.
    Last edited by kh4N; 10-11-13, 07:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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