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Concept of God: Pre-destination?

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  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by serio View Post
    So what does suffering mean to you? Is it pain? Is it feeling hapless? Is dying suffering? Have you died before? So how do you know the people who are dying is sufferring? How do you know the millions of children who died was sufferring? Did you based that on what you see? Can you literally feel their pain? You can't can you?
    Is it possible that at the very moment of their death Allah took away all their pain and they basically feel nothing? You did not go into their body before they died did you? So how do you know exactly what they went through? Just because they look all skinny and sickly doesnt mean that they actually feel any pain, if Allah wanted them to feel zero pain He can do that. Perhaps He was trying to test people like you..who belief what they see and make assumptions about Allah without understanding exactly how He works. And obviously you have failed the test. Congrats!

    And that is why time and time again He tells us that our mind is not capable of truly understanding what is happening. We can't ever reach His level..not even 0.01%. And that is why He told us to obey him and not question what He has ordered us to do.

    Problem with you I guess is that you think you are too smart. You think you know everything in this world, how it works, what is wrong, what is right. But you forgot one thing...the brain that you have..Allah gave it to you. So perhaps its a test on you to see what you would do with it..and obviously you are going all out to go against Him. Congrats again!

    i totally agree with u . REALLY CURIOUS THINKS HE IS THE ALL WISE , KNOWING ABOUT EVERYTHING.

    Eventhough i believe there is a superpower , i dont get the logic of Qadr

    What is this Qadr , many say i am having all this problem due to lack of iman and belief in qadr. I find it ridiculous- the concept of Qadr. Allah has pre determined everything, he knows who will be in heaven and hell. All had been pre written, Then what is the logic in this so called TESTING. Isnt it kind of playing a FIXED MATCH ?? God is being cruel towards all the non muslims by making them not to believe and leading them to hell !!

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    Let me ask u a simple question.

    WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??

    Why no other animal is wearing clothes , talking over phone , writing books , driving cars etc ??

    If u say man is at the pinnacle of evolution , why no other organism of a different lineage is like man ?
    If we accept man belongs to the same family of Apes , why no other organism from Class Mammalia is like man ?
    There are many species of the same organism and in the same family there can be many similar members, look at tigers, lions etc- they have the same trait of being a carnivore- eat flesh , copulate and die.
    None from that family is wearing clothes or are driving a car !!

    SO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS OR Homo sapiens sapiens ARE SOMETHING OF ITS KIND , AN EXTRA ORDINARY BREED.

    Doesnt this ring some bells ??
    It's quite simple and also quite complicated.
    Firstly, "civilised" is a subjective term! I'll assume that you meant advanced or intelligent.
    Essentially it is down to the combination of brain size and physiology. Dolphins have brains as large as humans but they don't have a body able to exploit its potential. The only species that could possibly have evolved to our level are the primates (flexible digits and opposable thumbs plus large brain). We just happen to be the ones who evolved to fill this ecological niche. It could have been Neanderthals, or one of the other branches of Australopithicus or Homo which died out.

    We are, indeed, an extra-ordinary breed, as are sharks, eagles, crocodiles, hippopotami, ants, wolves, etc, etc. The only reason that we think we are different is that we are able to think that we are different.

    This is a very strange question from a final-year medical student. It's like saying, why aren't there flying humans or lions that can breath breathe underwater, or why aren't there colonies of hippos living underground and able to carry 100 times their own weight. Daft!

    Leave a comment:


  • kh4N
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
    Nobody is answering me because they cannot! Every reply either does not address the question or raises more. If I was wrong, don't you think that someone would be able to point this out, logically, with evidence that would stand up? If I was proved wrong, I'd be the first to admit it.

    Two phrases you won't find in the religionists lexicon:
    "I don't know"
    "I was wrong"

    (I don't know what was before the Big Bang and I was wrong about 53:1-8. There, it can be done!)
    All your doubts have been answered. If I'm not mistaken you weren't happy with our answers and resorted to emotional ad hominems after several strawman arguments.

    However you are entitled to believe whatever you wish to, in this case, that "no one can answer you".

    Leave a comment:


  • serio
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
    I could not bring myself to accept this kind of reasoning. If the actions of Allah seem contradictory, causing unnecessary suffering, etc, and there is no reasonable explanation for it, "Allah knows best" is just a cop out. It just seems like a device used to stop believers questioning religion. Would you accept that kind of answer in any other situation?
    So what does suffering mean to you? Is it pain? Is it feeling hapless? Is dying suffering? Have you died before? So how do you know the people who are dying is sufferring? How do you know the millions of children who died was sufferring? Did you based that on what you see? Can you literally feel their pain? You can't can you?
    Is it possible that at the very moment of their death Allah took away all their pain and they basically feel nothing? You did not go into their body before they died did you? So how do you know exactly what they went through? Just because they look all skinny and sickly doesnt mean that they actually feel any pain, if Allah wanted them to feel zero pain He can do that. Perhaps He was trying to test people like you..who belief what they see and make assumptions about Allah without understanding exactly how He works. And obviously you have failed the test. Congrats!

    And that is why time and time again He tells us that our mind is not capable of truly understanding what is happening. We can't ever reach His level..not even 0.01%. And that is why He told us to obey him and not question what He has ordered us to do.

    Problem with you I guess is that you think you are too smart. You think you know everything in this world, how it works, what is wrong, what is right. But you forgot one thing...the brain that you have..Allah gave it to you. So perhaps its a test on you to see what you would do with it..and obviously you are going all out to go against Him. Congrats again!

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Let me ask u a simple question.

    WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??

    Why no other animal is wearing clothes , talking over phone , writing books , driving cars etc ??

    If u say man is at the pinnacle of evolution , why no other organism of a different lineage is like man ?
    If we accept man belongs to the same family of Apes , why no other organism from Class Mammalia is like man ?
    There are many species of the same organism and in the same family there can be many similar members, look at tigers, lions etc- they have the same trait of being a carnivore- eat flesh , copulate and die.
    None from that family is wearing clothes or are driving a car !!

    SO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS OR Homo sapiens sapiens ARE SOMETHING OF ITS KIND , AN EXTRA ORDINARY BREED.

    Doesnt this ring some bells ??

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    see NOBODY ELSE is bothering to answer u , there is no point in talking to u !! U R SHAITAAN :D
    Nobody is answering me because they cannot! Every reply either does not address the question or raises more. If I was wrong, don't you think that someone would be able to point this out, logically, with evidence that would stand up? If I was proved wrong, I'd be the first to admit it.

    Two phrases you won't find in the religionists lexicon:
    "I don't know"
    "I was wrong"

    (I don't know what was before the Big Bang and I was wrong about 53:1-8. There, it can be done!)

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    ok, i accept whatever u said - now u telme this

    IS THERE ANY GOD ?
    IF SO , WHO AND WHICH RELIGION SHOULD BE FOLLOWED AND WHY

    PS: I am not a doctor yet ,i am a medical student, i am awaiting my results.
    i learned physiology , biochem, anatomy, forensic, patho, pharmac, micro , medicine ,surgery , obs &gync and pediatrics buddy !!
    1. Probably not. No evidence for, much against.
    2. If there was a god, there would only be one religion because any real god who influenced the universe would be detectable. Also, any god who had the attributes of the Allah (jealous, vindictive, proud, needy, etc) would make himself known, unequivocally. There would be no argument.

    So I was right. I only go on the evidence, not what I'm told!

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    see NOBODY ELSE is bothering to answer u , there is no point in talking to u !! U R SHAITAAN :D

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    ok, i accept whatever u said - now u telme this

    IS THERE ANY GOD ?
    IF SO , WHO AND WHICH RELIGION SHOULD BE FOLLOWED AND WHY

    PS: I am not a doctor yet ,i am a medical student, i am awaiting my results.
    i learned physiology , biochem, anatomy, forensic, patho, pharmac, micro , medicine ,surgery , obs &gync and pediatrics buddy !!

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    you are seeing everything with a prejudiced mind , u hav a firm affirmation that whoever may say whatever , u are not going to believe


    dude , if u want to fill a pot with water , u hav to open it= remove the lid. As long as u r not ready , there is no point in talking to u !!
    Ironic, much? How a religionist can say stuff like that with a straight face is beyond me.
    You have to look at Islam with a prejudiced mind, by definition. If you critically analyse it, it falls apart. Without the a priori assumption that it is true, it makes no sense. To use a Quranic metaphor, lift the veil from your eyes.

    I don't expect you to address any of my points or questions as I know you have nothing but scriptural rhetoric.

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    and now i understand , allah never leads a person to doom unless the person so badly wants to . Look at our brother really curious , after knowing all things about islam , he is so adamant that islam is fake , the quran has been manipulated etc. Dear brother "really curious " , we will get the answer for all our doubts on the day of judgement and i wish u wont be among the losers


    ps " qadr is not anything like a fixed match , see the dude "really curious" who is digging his own grave !!
    It's not a matter of wishful thinking or hoping to gain a big prize. It is about looking at the evidence and searching for the truth. You think you've found it in a 1400 year old book which was based partly on existing religious mythology and common knowledge. There is a whole world of knowledge and beauty out for those that look for it. I hope you won't be among the losers who miss all this because of blindly following religious dogma.

    People here keep telling me that we have free will but refuse to explain how it can be possible under Allah's predestination. Try addressing the question.

    Leave a comment:


  • ReallyCurious
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    And i am myself a doctor and i know about embryogenesis . U agree that Leuwenhook was the person who invented the microscope right ?? How can an illiterate Arab sheperd say about all this things regarding human embryogenesis and man is created from sperm etc 1400 years back ?? USE UR BRAIN FOR GOOD THINKING TOO BRO
    If the God told Muhammad about human reproduction and embryology, why didn't he tell him that:
    1. Sperm comes from the testes. There is an Arabic word for them, why did he not use it instead of an incorrect description already in use since the Greeks?
    2. They embryo is formed when a sperm merges with a female egg, which is formed in the ovaries? There is no mention of this AT ALL! It is pretty important in embryology! (No coincidence that the Greeks and Indians new nothing of the egg either?)

    I think you need to answer those two questions first.

    The Quran does not mention "sperm" but rather "seed", a term which had been used universally, for centuries, to mean the male ejaculant. The invention of the microscope is irrelevant, "seed" was known to be the source of new life before the Quran. The Quran was not written by an illiterate shepherd, it was written over time by several people, all of whom were literate and could have been aware of contemporary knowledge in medicine, geography, astrology etc. (Apparently, the word "Ummi" does not mean "illiterate", but rather "ignorant of the scriptures". As justification of the Quran is based on multiple meanings and interpretations of Arabic words, it would be unusual for this word to only have one meaning, no?)

    As you said, Use your brain for thinking.

    You are not a doctor.

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    and now i understand , allah never leads a person to doom unless the person so badly wants to . Look at our brother really curious , after knowing all things about islam , he is so adamant that islam is fake , the quran has been manipulated etc. Dear brother "really curious " , we will get the answer for all our doubts on the day of judgement and i wish u wont be among the losers


    ps " qadr is not anything like a fixed match , see the dude "really curious" who is digging his own grave !!

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
    Moore is the only embryologist in the world who has given published credence to these claims. He was paid by the Saudi royal family to rubber stamp the "miraculous" claims.

    If you have 100 experts who say X is right and Y is wrong, but you have just one expert B who says Y is right. Then you find that expert B was paid by Y, you disregard his opinion. Simple data analysis protocol.
    Moore tries to avoid the subject when questioned. On his lengthy and detailed biog on the American Anatomists Association, he makes no mention of it. He never converted to Islam, as has been suggested by many.
    www.anatomy.org/content/keith-l-moore

    A renowned ex-Muslim went to the trouble of interviewing the scientists quoted as supporters of Quranic scientific miracles. They all say that they were misrepresented, misquoted or just being charitable to generous hosts.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ0hlUpYdTk
    And i am myself a doctor and i know about embryogenesis . U agree that Leuwenhook was the person who invented the microscope right ?? How can an illiterate Arab sheperd say about all this things regarding human embryogenesis and man is created from sperm etc 1400 years back ?? USE UR BRAIN FOR GOOD THINKING TOO BRO

    Leave a comment:


  • kqaleel
    replied
    Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by reallycurious View Post
    moore is the only embryologist in the world who has given published credence to these claims. He was paid by the saudi royal family to rubber stamp the "miraculous" claims.

    If you have 100 experts who say x is right and y is wrong, but you have just one expert b who says y is right. Then you find that expert b was paid by y, you disregard his opinion. Simple data analysis protocol.
    Moore tries to avoid the subject when questioned. On his lengthy and detailed biog on the american anatomists association, he makes no mention of it. He never converted to islam, as has been suggested by many.
    www.anatomy.org/content/keith-l-moore

    a renowned ex-muslim went to the trouble of interviewing the scientists quoted as supporters of quranic scientific miracles. They all say that they were misrepresented, misquoted or just being charitable to generous hosts.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj0hlupydtk

    you are seeing everything with a prejudiced mind , u hav a firm affirmation that whoever may say whatever , u are not going to believe


    dude , if u want to fill a pot with water , u hav to open it= remove the lid. As long as u r not ready , there is no point in talking to u !!

    Leave a comment:

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