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Concept of God: Pre-destination?

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  • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
    Dear Zeeshan , u just answer me this


    IS ALLAH BEING UNFAIR TO THE NON BELIEVERS AND POLYTHEISTS BY PRE WRITING THEIR DESTINY THAT THEY WILL LIVE AND DIE AS SUCH , AND WILL BE PUNISHED ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT ??
    No because you have the option of making Dua' which can change destiny.
    Watch those eyes

    Comment


    • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

      Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
      Dear Zeeshan , u just answer me this


      IS ALLAH BEING UNFAIR TO THE NON BELIEVERS AND POLYTHEISTS BY PRE WRITING THEIR DESTINY THAT THEY WILL LIVE AND DIE AS SUCH , AND WILL BE PUNISHED ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT ??
      It would appear so, but as ZeeshanParvez says, don't think about it and keep repeating "Allah Knows Best". They are only kufr. Allah doesn't have to be fair to them. (Even if he did make them that way)

      Comment


      • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

        Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
        No because you have the option of making Dua' which can change destiny.
        No dua can change the Qadr , all of it has been predetermined by Allah 50,000 years ago !

        Comment


        • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

          Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
          No because you have the option of making Dua' which can change destiny.
          But post #160 seems to be a very measured and well referenced essay that categorically states that we cannot change destiny. Is it wrong? If so, why?

          Comment


          • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

            Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
            No dua can change the Qadr , all of it has been predetermined by Allah 50,000 years ago !
            the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Nothing can change the Qadar except the Du`a’…" This Hadith is reported by several authorities on Hadith, such as Imam Ahmad, Ibn Hibban, Al-Hakim, and Ibn Majah… etc. Most of the scholars of Hadith consider it an acceptable Hadith
            Watch those eyes

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            • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

              حدثنا معاذ بن هشام قال : حدثنا أبي ، عن أبي حكيمة ، عن أبي عثمان النهدي ، أن عمر بن الخطاب قال وهو يطوف بالبيت ويبكي : اللهم إن كنت كتبت علي شقوة أو ذنبا فامحه ، فإنك تمحو ما تشاء وتثبت . وعندك أم الكتاب ، فاجعله سعادة ومغفرة .

              Umaar ibn Khttab used to say while he was doing Twaaf of the House and crying: Oh God If you written upon me misfortune or sins then efface them for verily You efface what you will and keep what You will and with you is the the Mother of the Book. So make it good fortune and forgiveness."

              Imam Tabari has placed a reference to this under the heading

              "And others say in reference to this Verse that God can change all of that which He wills and keep all he Wills (including the Mother of the Book)."
              Watch those eyes

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              • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                Perhaps studying Islam first and then asking questions would befit all on this thread. Reading what orientalists have written and think considering yourself to know everything leads to nuisances like this.
                Watch those eyes

                Comment


                • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                  Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                  Perhaps studying Islam first and then asking questions would befit all on this thread. Reading what orientalists have written and think considering yourself to know everything leads to nuisances like this.
                  If Allah could create all this world from nothing ,he may be able to change ones fate !! Who knows other than Allah. And really Allah knows the best

                  Comment


                  • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                    Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                    If Allah could create all this world from nothing ,he may be able to change ones fate !! Who knows other than Allah. And really Allah knows the best

                    Not He may He can. God is not bound by anything. The belief that God can't change something He has written is robbing Him of His Power to do anything. God dictates standards. Standards do not dictate God. If He makes a Standard He is Free and all Powerful to change it Whenever He wants.

                    That is why He is God.
                    Watch those eyes

                    Comment


                    • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                      The saying of the Prophet (PBUH) that Dua' can change Qadr and the supplication of one of the Greatest Companions (RA) attest to the fact that even a person doomed to Hell can have his place changed. So really there isn't anything unfair anywhere.
                      Watch those eyes

                      Comment


                      • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                        Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                        The saying of the Prophet (PBUH) that Dua' can change Qadr and the supplication of one of the Greatest Companions (RA) attest to the fact that even a person doomed to Hell can have his place changed. So really there isn't anything unfair anywhere.
                        We will put it this way , a student was asked to learn things from a wrong text book and was failed. = UNFAIR

                        The student was shown the right book and wrong book and he chose to learn from the wrong book( knowing what he is doing is wrong ) and he gets punished = FAIR DEAL

                        Comment


                        • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                          Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                          The saying of the Prophet (PBUH) that Dua' can change Qadr and the supplication of one of the Greatest Companions (RA) attest to the fact that even a person doomed to Hell can have his place changed. So really there isn't anything unfair anywhere.
                          So when the Quran repeatedly says that nothing can change what Allah has forseen and decreed, is it wrong?
                          Also, it must be the case that Allah foresaw the prayer changing his mind and changing destiny, so it will have been written as such anyway.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                            Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
                            So when the Quran repeatedly says that nothing can change what Allah has forseen and decreed, is it wrong?
                            Pick up a book on Usul ul Fiqh and read the chapter about the 'Aam and Khaas. That example of yours and many others which you choose either out of ignorance or out of sheer adversity to Islam and then claim 'Look Contradiction' will be answered in the space of one page.
                            Watch those eyes

                            Comment


                            • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                              Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                              We will put it this way , a student was asked to learn things from a wrong text book and was failed. = UNFAIR

                              The student was shown the right book and wrong book and he chose to learn from the wrong book( knowing what he is doing is wrong ) and he gets punished = FAIR DEAL
                              Why would the teacher even offer the wrong book? And for the analogy to be accurate, the student would have to think that the wrong book was probably the right book. (I don't think you'll find any unbelievers who think god is real and the scriptures are right but still disbelieve. What about the ones that believe wholeheartedly, but in a different god) Still seems pretty unfair.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                                He created man from a drop of sperm and yet he is an open challenger! And He created livestock. There is warmth for you in them, and various uses and some you eat. And there is beauty in them for you in the evening when you bring them home and in the morning when you drive them out to graze. They carry your loads to lands you would never reach except with great difficulty. Your Lord is All-Gentle, Most Merciful. And horses, mules and donkeys both to ride and for adornment. And He creates other things you do not know. The Way should lead to Allah, but there are those who deviate from it. If He had wished He could have guided every one of you. It is He Who sends down water from the sky. From it you drink and from it come the shrubs among which you graze your herds. And by it He makes crops grow for you and olives and dates and grapes and fruit of every kind. There is certainly a Sign in that for people who reflect. He has made night and day subservient to you, and the sun and moon and stars, all subject to His command. There are certainly Signs in that for people who use their intellect. And also the things of varying colors He has created for you in the earth. There is certainly a Sign in that for people who pay heed. It is He Who made the sea subservient to you so that you can eat fresh flesh from it and bring out from it ornaments to wear. And you see the ships cleaving through it so that you can seek His bounty, and so that hopefully you will show thanks. He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so it would not move under you, and rivers and pathways so that hopefully you would be guided, and landmarks. And they are guided by the stars. Is He Who creates like him who does not create? So will you not pay heed? If you tried to number Allah's blessings, you could never count them. Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Surat an-Nahl: 4-18)

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