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Concept of God: Pre-destination?

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  • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

    Let me ask u a simple question.

    WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??

    Why no other animal is wearing clothes , talking over phone , writing books , driving cars etc ??

    If u say man is at the pinnacle of evolution , why no other organism of a different lineage is like man ?
    If we accept man belongs to the same family of Apes , why no other organism from Class Mammalia is like man ?
    There are many species of the same organism and in the same family there can be many similar members, look at tigers, lions etc- they have the same trait of being a carnivore- eat flesh , copulate and die.
    None from that family is wearing clothes or are driving a car !!

    SO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS OR Homo sapiens sapiens ARE SOMETHING OF ITS KIND , AN EXTRA ORDINARY BREED.

    Doesnt this ring some bells ??

    Comment


    • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

      Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
      I could not bring myself to accept this kind of reasoning. If the actions of Allah seem contradictory, causing unnecessary suffering, etc, and there is no reasonable explanation for it, "Allah knows best" is just a cop out. It just seems like a device used to stop believers questioning religion. Would you accept that kind of answer in any other situation?
      So what does suffering mean to you? Is it pain? Is it feeling hapless? Is dying suffering? Have you died before? So how do you know the people who are dying is sufferring? How do you know the millions of children who died was sufferring? Did you based that on what you see? Can you literally feel their pain? You can't can you?
      Is it possible that at the very moment of their death Allah took away all their pain and they basically feel nothing? You did not go into their body before they died did you? So how do you know exactly what they went through? Just because they look all skinny and sickly doesnt mean that they actually feel any pain, if Allah wanted them to feel zero pain He can do that. Perhaps He was trying to test people like you..who belief what they see and make assumptions about Allah without understanding exactly how He works. And obviously you have failed the test. Congrats!

      And that is why time and time again He tells us that our mind is not capable of truly understanding what is happening. We can't ever reach His level..not even 0.01%. And that is why He told us to obey him and not question what He has ordered us to do.

      Problem with you I guess is that you think you are too smart. You think you know everything in this world, how it works, what is wrong, what is right. But you forgot one thing...the brain that you have..Allah gave it to you. So perhaps its a test on you to see what you would do with it..and obviously you are going all out to go against Him. Congrats again!

      Comment


      • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

        Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
        Nobody is answering me because they cannot! Every reply either does not address the question or raises more. If I was wrong, don't you think that someone would be able to point this out, logically, with evidence that would stand up? If I was proved wrong, I'd be the first to admit it.

        Two phrases you won't find in the religionists lexicon:
        "I don't know"
        "I was wrong"

        (I don't know what was before the Big Bang and I was wrong about 53:1-8. There, it can be done!)
        All your doubts have been answered. If I'm not mistaken you weren't happy with our answers and resorted to emotional ad hominems after several strawman arguments.

        However you are entitled to believe whatever you wish to, in this case, that "no one can answer you".

        Comment


        • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

          Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
          Let me ask u a simple question.

          WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??

          Why no other animal is wearing clothes , talking over phone , writing books , driving cars etc ??

          If u say man is at the pinnacle of evolution , why no other organism of a different lineage is like man ?
          If we accept man belongs to the same family of Apes , why no other organism from Class Mammalia is like man ?
          There are many species of the same organism and in the same family there can be many similar members, look at tigers, lions etc- they have the same trait of being a carnivore- eat flesh , copulate and die.
          None from that family is wearing clothes or are driving a car !!

          SO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS OR Homo sapiens sapiens ARE SOMETHING OF ITS KIND , AN EXTRA ORDINARY BREED.

          Doesnt this ring some bells ??
          It's quite simple and also quite complicated.
          Firstly, "civilised" is a subjective term! I'll assume that you meant advanced or intelligent.
          Essentially it is down to the combination of brain size and physiology. Dolphins have brains as large as humans but they don't have a body able to exploit its potential. The only species that could possibly have evolved to our level are the primates (flexible digits and opposable thumbs plus large brain). We just happen to be the ones who evolved to fill this ecological niche. It could have been Neanderthals, or one of the other branches of Australopithicus or Homo which died out.

          We are, indeed, an extra-ordinary breed, as are sharks, eagles, crocodiles, hippopotami, ants, wolves, etc, etc. The only reason that we think we are different is that we are able to think that we are different.

          This is a very strange question from a final-year medical student. It's like saying, why aren't there flying humans or lions that can breath breathe underwater, or why aren't there colonies of hippos living underground and able to carry 100 times their own weight. Daft!

          Comment


          • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

            Originally posted by serio View Post
            So what does suffering mean to you? Is it pain? Is it feeling hapless? Is dying suffering? Have you died before? So how do you know the people who are dying is sufferring? How do you know the millions of children who died was sufferring? Did you based that on what you see? Can you literally feel their pain? You can't can you?
            Is it possible that at the very moment of their death Allah took away all their pain and they basically feel nothing? You did not go into their body before they died did you? So how do you know exactly what they went through? Just because they look all skinny and sickly doesnt mean that they actually feel any pain, if Allah wanted them to feel zero pain He can do that. Perhaps He was trying to test people like you..who belief what they see and make assumptions about Allah without understanding exactly how He works. And obviously you have failed the test. Congrats!

            And that is why time and time again He tells us that our mind is not capable of truly understanding what is happening. We can't ever reach His level..not even 0.01%. And that is why He told us to obey him and not question what He has ordered us to do.

            Problem with you I guess is that you think you are too smart. You think you know everything in this world, how it works, what is wrong, what is right. But you forgot one thing...the brain that you have..Allah gave it to you. So perhaps its a test on you to see what you would do with it..and obviously you are going all out to go against Him. Congrats again!

            i totally agree with u . REALLY CURIOUS THINKS HE IS THE ALL WISE , KNOWING ABOUT EVERYTHING.

            Eventhough i believe there is a superpower , i dont get the logic of Qadr

            What is this Qadr , many say i am having all this problem due to lack of iman and belief in qadr. I find it ridiculous- the concept of Qadr. Allah has pre determined everything, he knows who will be in heaven and hell. All had been pre written, Then what is the logic in this so called TESTING. Isnt it kind of playing a FIXED MATCH ?? God is being cruel towards all the non muslims by making them not to believe and leading them to hell !!

            Comment


            • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

              Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
              It's quite simple and also quite complicated.
              Firstly, "civilised" is a subjective term! I'll assume that you meant advanced or intelligent.
              Essentially it is down to the combination of brain size and physiology. Dolphins have brains as large as humans but they don't have a body able to exploit its potential. The only species that could possibly have evolved to our level are the primates (flexible digits and opposable thumbs plus large brain). We just happen to be the ones who evolved to fill this ecological niche. It could have been Neanderthals, or one of the other branches of Australopithicus or Homo which died out.

              We are, indeed, an extra-ordinary breed, as are sharks, eagles, crocodiles, hippopotami, ants, wolves, etc, etc. The only reason that we think we are different is that we are able to think that we are different.

              This is a very strange question from a final-year medical student. It's like saying, why aren't there flying humans or lions that can breath breathe underwater, or why aren't there colonies of hippos living underground and able to carry 100 times their own weight. Daft!
              but these crocodiles are not shooting us with cameras and watching it under "HUMAN PLANET " Do they ?? ;-)

              Comment


              • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                And what is death for u really curious ?

                Comment


                • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                  Originally posted by reallycurious View Post
                  it's quite simple and also quite complicated.
                  Firstly, "civilised" is a subjective term! I'll assume that you meant advanced or intelligent.
                  Essentially it is down to the combination of brain size and physiology. Dolphins have brains as large as humans but they don't have a body able to exploit its potential. The only species that could possibly have evolved to our level are the primates (flexible digits and opposable thumbs plus large brain). We just happen to be the ones who evolved to fill this ecological niche. It could have been neanderthals, or one of the other branches of australopithicus or homo which died out.

                  We are, indeed, an extra-ordinary breed, as are sharks, eagles, crocodiles, hippopotami, ants, wolves, etc, etc. The only reason that we think we are different is that we are able to think that we are different.

                  This is a very strange question from a final-year medical student. It's like saying, why aren't there flying humans or lions that can breath breathe underwater, or why aren't there colonies of hippos living underground and able to carry 100 times their own weight. Daft!

                  and u are saying human beings are at the top of the pyramid of evolution ?? If u accept it , then humans really deserve a special position, dont they ? And evolution was never linear , it had radiations - many species are sophisticated in their faculties , but none is there like humans , why ??

                  Comment


                  • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                    Originally posted by serio View Post
                    But you forgot one thing...the brain that you have..Allah gave it to you. So perhaps its a test on you to see what you would do with it..and obviously you are going all out to go against Him. Congrats again!
                    But you forgot one thing. Allah has decided everything that will happen to me. He has decreed it, seen it and written it down, 50,000 years before he created the earth. I am only doing what he wants me to do. I am accepting his will, nothing more, nothing less.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                      Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                      and u are saying human beings are at the top of the pyramid of evolution ?? If u accept it , then humans really deserve a special position, dont they ? And evolution was never linear , it had radiations - many species are sophisticated in their faculties , but none is there like humans , why ??
                      No.
                      Correct.
                      Because they inhabit a different ecological niche.

                      Come on. If you really are a final-year medical student, you should know all this!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                        Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
                        No.
                        Correct.
                        Because they inhabit a different ecological niche.

                        Come on. If you really are a final-year medical student, you should know all this!
                        can u explain about this ecological niche ??

                        Comment


                        • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                          Originally posted by serio View Post
                          Just because they look all skinny and sickly doesnt mean that they actually feel any pain
                          This rivals Khan for most offensive post of the week.

                          Originally posted by serio View Post
                          And that is why time and time again He tells us that our mind is not capable of truly understanding what is happening
                          Some obviously more than others.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                            Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
                            No.
                            Correct.
                            Because they inhabit a different ecological niche.

                            Come on. If you really are a final-year medical student, you should know all this!
                            so who is at the top of evolution ?? what will happen in the future , will men get more sophisticated and will lead to a new species ??

                            Comment


                            • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                              Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                              can u explain about this ecological niche ??
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_niche

                              Consider the Australian Aborigine. He is Homo Sapiens, but at the time of the settling of the interior by Europeans, they were no more advanced than European Stone Age while the settlers had ocean going ships, steam power, guns, etc. If our development was a divine gift, why did it not apply to all humans?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Concept of God: Pre-destination?

                                Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                                so who is at the top of evolution ?? what will happen in the future , will men get more sophisticated and will lead to a new species ??
                                There is no "top" of evolution. This is a common mistake which usually places humans at the top. Whichever species are best evolved to their particular ecological niche could be considered top, but there could be many different ones. It's like saying "who's the best sportsman in the world?" It depends what sport you are talking about.

                                Most species will continue to evolve, especially as man's influence is altering many environments. Humans are a slightly different case as we have evolved and advanced to a level where we can overcome some of the processes which control evolution (individuals that would die in the "wild" are kept alive with surgery and medicine, agriculture allows us to feed many more than would normally be possible, we can live in very hot & very cold regions, etc). The periods of time required are huge. Any new species would not emerge for tens of thousands of years, probably more. Technology will keep advancing as long as society is prosperous and stable. It is not guaranteed. Look at Egypt, 4000 years ago they were the most advanced society on the planet, 200 years ago they were lagging well behind.

                                Comment

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