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Women Voting in Islam

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  • #46
    Re: Women Voting in Islam

    Originally posted by Modernist View Post
    your interpretation is wrong.

    those who practice islam have to meet challenges caused by time and place.

    there is no benefit in wearing desert clothing in northern latitudes. similarly there is no sense in pursuing political structures from a long gone world era. both are the unsustainable actions of those who blindly follow without understanding.
    like i said you to your way. we to ours.

    islam is sufficent for us.
    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

    The Prophet :saw: said:

    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

    muslim

    Narrated 'Abdullah:

    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Women Voting in Islam

      Originally posted by Modernist View Post
      your interpretation is wrong.

      those who practice islam have to meet challenges caused by time and place.

      there is no benefit in wearing desert clothing in northern latitudes. similarly there is no sense in pursuing political structures from a long gone world era. both are the unsustainable actions of those who blindly follow without understanding.
      Which system works best according to you?

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Women Voting in Islam

        Originally posted by Modernist View Post
        your interpretation is wrong.

        those who practice islam have to meet challenges caused by time and place.

        there is no benefit in wearing desert clothing in northern latitudes. similarly there is no sense in pursuing political structures from a long gone world era. both are the unsustainable actions of those who blindly follow without understanding.
        It is your understanding that is wrong in that Islam allows anything and everything unless specified or liimited by boundary

        so say meat pork etc is forbidden and other things are allowed but within the guidelines set out fo rthe process of slaughter

        similarly clothes (as per your example) are allowed as long as teh notion of ''Hijaab'' is observed (i mean hijaab in the true meaning not just what women are seen to be wearing)

        In terms of political structures the list and guidance is detailed. To the degree that to even do what some accept today in terms of engaging in the democractic process is strictly forbidden because it is shirk

        In fact I would say to you thatthose who have compromised are the ones blindly following without understanding, the understanding being Islam

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Women Voting in Islam

          Originally posted by nonameakhi View Post
          In terms of political structures the list and guidance is detailed. To the degree that to even do what some accept today in terms of engaging in the democractic process is strictly forbidden because it is shirk
          electing representatives to spend taxes on providing street lighting for the community is shirk?

          illogical and irrational.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Women Voting in Islam

            Originally posted by *asiya* View Post
            wrong. islam is islam and democracy is democracy. we say we to our way and they to theirs.
            The flaw in your logic is in presupposing democracy can only be one thing. You look at western liberal secular "democracy" and say "thats for them, not us" - which I would agree entirely. Your oligarchic model on the other hand is not only contrary to islamic law (in my view), it is wholly impractical. I think there's a good reason why there's virtually no islamic country that implements this system, and has resorted to at least some form of democracy.

            surah 3:159 is regarding the sahabbah who are the scolars of the day, they are the ulema of the time, the rightly guided- they are those who are to be consulted.
            Thats only one view. Plenty of scholars argue that it applies to the entire community.

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            • #51
              Re: Women Voting in Islam

              the good reason why there is virtually no islamic country that implements shariah is 'cause of al wahn [love of the world and dislike of death]

              if these muslim leaders truly feared their Creator they wouldn't be bowing down to their western masters

              I think there's a good reason why there's virtually no islamic country that implements this system, and has resorted to at least some form of democracy.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Women Voting in Islam

                Originally posted by gandalf View Post
                The flaw in your logic is in presupposing democracy can only be one thing. You look at western liberal secular "democracy" and say "thats for them, not us" - which I would agree entirely. Your oligarchic model on the other hand is not only contrary to islamic law (in my view), it is wholly impractical. I think there's a good reason why there's virtually no islamic country that implements this system, and has resorted to at least some form of democracy.
                In practice, after the first four Caliphs, accession to the Caliphate was operated via dynastic succession, with occasional coups introducing a change in the relevant dynasty

                The main difference with "Western" monarchies was the lack of a clear law for succession : while Western monarchies adopted the law of the Salian Franks (succession by the male legitimate firstborn) in the Caliphate, it was mostly "survival of the fittest" among the deceased Caliph's sons. This produced very frequent secessions and civil wars.

                For a time, the Holy Roman Empire operated a system where the Emperor was designated by an electoral council, but in the end this also proved unpractical, and hereditary succession (in the house of Hapsburg) prevailed, for a duration of more than 500 years.

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                • #53
                  Re: Women Voting in Islam

                  Do non-Muslims also get to vote for an ameer in supposed 'Islamic democracy' model?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Women Voting in Islam

                    voting for Men and Women in a man made law is haram because Allah swt has told to live our lives according to Sharia but we are living in a " democracy " see how that is brackets because democracy is where women who cover are wrong and women who go out drinking and wearing barely anything is the norm but if a women covers then she is seen as not normal.
                    "www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com" - Islamic blog

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Women Voting in Islam

                      Originally posted by Modernist View Post
                      your interpretation is wrong.

                      those who practice islam have to meet challenges caused by time and place.

                      there is no benefit in wearing desert clothing in northern latitudes. similarly there is no sense in pursuing political structures from a long gone world era. both are the unsustainable actions of those who blindly follow without understanding.
                      Yaa Rabb!

                      Modernist, what are you talking about, saying " there is no sense in pursuing political structures from a long gone world era" ? Then Democracy, which is a pre-medieval Greek system doesnt have its place in our

                      And yes, as u say "those who practice islam have to meet challenges caused by time and place. " ... which is what fiqh is.

                      and Modernist, "electing representatives to spend taxes on providing street lighting for the community is shirk? " ---> you missed the point there ...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Women Voting in Islam

                        Originally posted by AHussain786 View Post
                        democracy is where women who cover are wrong and women who go out drinking and wearing barely anything is the norm but if a women covers then she is seen as not normal.
                        no

                        democracy is where common rules are set by majority voting : whether drinking should be allowed, and if yes, when and where; whether going around naked should be allowed, and if yes, when and where. Whether certain religious rituals go against public order or not, whether divorce should be allwed and underwhich conditions etc etc

                        in other words : certain common standards are identified by the community, and enforced by the State. It allows different communities to live together, on the basis of those common standards.

                        If a minority community is not happy with those standards, it has the possibility to work in order to modify them : it has however no right to impose those standards on the majority against its will

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Women Voting in Islam

                          Originally posted by Ahmed ibn Adan View Post
                          Not democracy brother. I mean sort of early Islam voting for a Khalifa or something like this. To my limited knowledge the Rashidun were a small assembly of 'voters'.
                          Above post is really informative far me thanks , you will more posts publish soon.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Women Voting in Islam

                            Originally posted by Fadi View Post
                            legislation is not in the hands of people, only Allah.
                            This raises a few issues.
                            How does Allah deal with new legislation, like traffic laws, medical research, technology, foreign policy, etc? Who formulates these things if not men? Even ignoring the need for new and ongoing legislation, who interprets and dispenses the original laws? The legislature and judiciary must be appointed by some means. Who appoints these people and where does their power rest? It can only be arrived at by a plebiscite through universal suffrage. Nothing else would make any sense. Surely Allah, in his omniscience, knows this and the democratic system is just part of his predetermined plan.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Women Voting in Islam

                              Originally posted by ReallyCurious View Post
                              This raises a few issues.
                              How does Allah deal with new legislation, like traffic laws, medical research, technology, foreign policy, etc? Who formulates these things if not men? Even ignoring the need for new and ongoing legislation, who interprets and dispenses the original laws? The legislature and judiciary must be appointed by some means. Who appoints these people and where does their power rest? It can only be arrived at by a plebiscite through universal suffrage. Nothing else would make any sense. Surely Allah, in his omniscience, knows this and the democratic system is just part of his predetermined plan.
                              This reminds me of the ruling about how one should pray in countries like Norway where the sun sometimes doesn't set at all.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Women Voting in Islam

                                Originally posted by *asiya* View Post
                                in order to understand how the system of administration of shariah works under islam you would need to study every aspect of islam, which comes back to why voting and shura is not for the ignorant.
                                No, "in order to understand how the system of administration of shariah works under islam" you need only to tell us how the executive and legislature are appointed. That is all. You have singularly failed to do this.

                                The arguments given as to why democracy is not a good idea are the same ones used by the establishment to deny suffrage to non-land owners, then certain religions, then by income, race and sex. You are aware that most societies were once ruled by "divine right" but this proved to be probably the most corrupt and untenable system ever devised?

                                If the criterion is comprehensive knowledge of Islam, how would this help in formulating legislation on the renewable/fossil/nuclear balance, to name but one topical issue, bearing in mind that over 95% of the world's leading scientists are atheists (or the "ignorant", as you so reasonably put it)?

                                Comment

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