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Discussion with an atheist about why Islam forbids homosexuality

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  • Question? Discussion with an atheist about why Islam forbids homosexuality

    Al Salam alaikum, as the title says, I'm having a discussion with an atheist about why Islam forbids homosexuality.
    Of course it is enough for me as a Muslim to know that the Qur'an forbids, because I follow the words of God no matter what.
    But the atheist doesn't have the concept of following the word of God, so I can't convince him just by saying that.
    His main argument is: "people can't control what urges they get (which is true), so why does God punish them for something they can't control, if he's the one who created us?"
    In order to answer that question. I need a more concrete explanation as to why homosexuality is forbidden. Like what the idea or goal of stopping it is. (of course the atheist doesn't accept it if I say" it's unnatural", because some people are born as homosexuals according to him)

    I would really appreciate any answers or sources that would help me convince him that the Islamic view is correct.
    Any arguments against homosexuality would be really helpful.

    Thank you a a lot in advance

  • #2
    Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
    ...people can't control what urges they get (which is true)...
    It's not true, we can control our urges. It's one of the things that separates us from animals.

    :refuted:

    Comment


    • #3
      What's your goal? Are you trying to convince him that Islam is true?

      ​​​​

      Comment


      • #4
        عليكم السلام و رحمة الله
        Before anything know that guidance is from Allah and He gives it to whomever He wishes so no matter how much evidences or logical arguments you bring he may still remain a kaafir و لعنة الله على القوم الكافرين.

        It's a filthy practice where you spread diseases which you can die from ya3ni Mr atheist doesn't look at what science has to say about this?

        And how come his ape ancestors were never homo? like how can the human race expand and go forth if they were to adapt homosexual lifestyles because these kuffar believe in survival of the fittest and evolution etc.
        ​​​​​
        they expect us to believe that something was created out of nothing and then they say nonsense like oh this behavior was noted amongst seahorses or swans walla idk which animal they refer to but they claim that such and such animal does it so it can be fine within humans too.

        And idek how you will argue because their health organizations support it and they all are tolerant with it now and no longer call it a mental disorder and claim it is genetic and not a choice.

        8 years ago when I was in the west it was not as disgusting as it is now ya3ni just open instagram or YouTube most of the people have changed their genders or are doing this don't call me she or he call me they ...أعوذ بالله
        Last edited by sa7ra1442; 03-07-22, 11:26 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          Al Salam alaikum, ,


          Thank you a a lot in advance
          salam alaykum wa rahmat allah

          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          But the atheist doesn't have the concept of following the word of God,
          yet they still borrow the concept of justice good and evil ect from religion denying god means those concepts arent objective and depends on the arbitrary opinions of people

          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          so I can't convince him just by saying that.
          this goes both ways and he cant convince you just by saying its legal or acceptable in some societies

          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          His main argument is: "people can't control what urges they get (which is true),
          people cant control their urges but they can control their actions you cant stop yourself from liking a woman you see but you can stop yourself from raping her

          ​​​​​​​
          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          so why does God punish them for something they can't control
          god punish people for their actions not their urges
          you are not punished for finding a woman attractive but you are punished for raping her

          ​​​​​​​
          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          In order to answer that question. I need a more concrete explanation as to why homosexuality is forbidden
          homosexuality is forbidden because it a disgusting and harmful act which destroy the individual the family and society
          god have the ultimate knowledge and wisdom to know what benefit and harm the human

          ​​​​​​​
          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          of course the atheist doesn't accept it if I say" it's unnatural
          even if we assume that its something natural that still dosent justify it for example lions kill other males cubs when they take over and this is natural but does it justify it for a human to kill the children of a woman he married ?

          ​​​​​​​
          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          because some people are born as homosexuals according to him)
          there is no gay gene you should of asked him for proof for this claim and stop considering anything he say as true
          ​​​​​​​
          Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
          I would really appreciate any answers or sources that would help me convince him that the Islamic view is correct.
          i advice you to stop having discussions with atheists because you dont seem to be qualified to do so you must have a considerable amount of knowledge

          Comment


          • #6
            Walaykum salam,

            You're handling this conversation the wrong way round. The FIRST conversation you need to have is regarding ascertaining that there is a Creator and that the world couldn't have just come about by itself, then establish that the Creator (swt) would have sent us guidance through revelation (and how to verify that it came from Allah and not a false prophet). Once you establish that Islam came from our Creator and the one who made us knows us better and knows what is best for us- then that is reason enough for us to obey His rules.

            Just as you said it is reason enough for you that it is stated in the Quran that homosexuality is forbidden and Allah ta'ala does not get these things wrong- this is what the atheist needs to learn as well.

            Discussing this on the basis of comparing the pitfalls and diseases of homosexuality with the merits of freedom is wrong because we decide right and wrong based on halal and haram, not the potential benefits or harms.
            The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

            Comment


            • #7
              Why is hs haram?

              1. Divine law - Allah only forbid what is immoral


              { قُلۡ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ ٱلۡفَوَٰحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنۡهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَٱلۡإِثۡمَ وَٱلۡبَغۡيَ بِغَيۡرِ ٱلۡحَقِّ وَأَن تُشۡرِكُواْ بِٱللَّهِ مَا لَمۡ يُنَزِّلۡ بِهِۦ سُلۡطَٰنٗا وَأَن تَقُولُواْ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ }
              [Surah Al-A`râf: 33]

              Sahih International:
              Say, "My Lord has only forbidden immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed - and sin, and oppression without right, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down authority, and that you say about Allah that which you do not know."


              This however begs the question what makes homosexuality so immoral?


              ,2. It is unnatural - islam emphasises the importance of the fitrah(natural disposition). Naturally we are all supposed to be straight unless Allah tests us otherwise.

              speaking from a biological perspective successful organisms are defined as those who can reproduce and that is why homosexuality in nature is unheard of except in a few instances (a freak of nature). There is no real biological advantage of homosexuality

              If you look at the mouse utopia experiment scientist had placed a large number of mice in a small area however given all the comforts they need. However this unnatural environment changed their nature and by the end of the experiment the mice had all killed themselves. One interesting fact that is always omitted that many of the mice became homosexual and this can be found in the scientific research papers themselves. This shows the homosexuality is unnatural and really a perversion of our natural way. (https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22514/1/2308Ramadams.pdf)

              There is also no such thing as a gay gene( https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02585-6)
              Biased scientist will try to prove otherwise but these claims have been refuted here (https://muslimskeptic.com/2020/09/28...ned-from-birth/)

              3. Individual harm -
              Homosexuality leads to excessive partners leading to increase in the spread of sexually transmitted disease
              Take monkeypox for example which is mainly spread through anal sex which is forbidden in islam and mainly a homosexual practice. There is great pressure in state media not to label it as a gay disease however it is clearly spread at higher rate between men who have sex with men. (https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1542)

              4. Societal harm -

              It lead to societal collapse and the destruction of values such as marriage.
              Oxford social anthropologist J.D. Unwin has shown the in a multitude of societies where total sexual freedom becomes the norm leads to either societal collapse or that society being swallowed up by another.

              Women are also one of the key drivers of .en in society and in a society where men aren't looking to marry women. Men are less driven to achieve success thus leading to societal decay.

              https://youtu.be/32OLtXW4efc - a playlist on the topic


              (www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3s61OF9DSbrvQxm5b3KR-LwlQ1OreafD3VbZM223ZpVd89HVpHn8hfBSM%26format%3Dam p&ved=2ahUKEwiA0vy75Nv4AhVvS0EAHdZlAAcQFnoECAkQA Q& usg=AOvVaw1P6-AnkOIE9MW0kd_Q2vCd)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ferasdukhan View Post
                Al Salam alaikum, as the title says, I'm having a discussion with an atheist about why Islam forbids homosexuality.
                Of course it is enough for me as a Muslim to know that the Qur'an forbids, because I follow the words of God no matter what.
                But the atheist doesn't have the concept of following the word of God, so I can't convince him just by saying that.
                His main argument is: "people can't control what urges they get (which is true), so why does God punish them for something they can't control, if he's the one who created us?"
                In order to answer that question. I need a more concrete explanation as to why homosexuality is forbidden. Like what the idea or goal of stopping it is. (of course the atheist doesn't accept it if I say" it's unnatural", because some people are born as homosexuals according to him)

                I would really appreciate any answers or sources that would help me convince him that the Islamic view is correct.
                Any arguments against homosexuality would be really helpful.

                Thank you a a lot in advance
                Why?

                Because our creator says so. Ultimately it is from al-Khaliq we derive our morality.

                Ask the atheist if he believes two men having intercourse is moral, then what does he think of two brothers commiting incest? Does he say that is immoral? Why does he say so? If he said, "Because it is incest," or "Because it just is," then so too can we say the same for homosexuality. What he will realise is he cannot justify why its wrong. Even the leading atheists now, realising this dilemma have begun advocating for the permission of incest.

                That is where morality without a creator leads you. Because you have no morality, you have only the Zeitgeist.
                Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                1/116

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