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  • #16
    Originally posted by user3410 View Post
    Salam,
    i really need some answers. Now, is a woman allowed to have a gay man as a friend? Because there can be no attraction between the two. If yes/no, please cite some sources, cause i just can not find an answer to my question. Please help.

    Thank you in advance
    No gay is 100% gay, there are in society more ex-gays than gays.

    we've had gay reverts on our dawah stalls, 3 of which are now happily married. They have some attraction to women, they just because of certain psychological issues prefer men so no it's not okay.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post

      No gay is 100% gay, there are in society more ex-gays than gays.

      we've had gay reverts on our dawah stalls, 3 of which are now happily married. They have some attraction to women, they just because of certain psychological issues prefer men so no it's not okay.
      reallt subhanAllah

      how did they change what was the process and how long did it take

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

        reallt subhanAllah

        how did they change what was the process and how long did it take
        I'm sure some people identify as gay just to be edgy or out of spite.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

          I'm sure some people identify as gay just to be edgy or out of spite.
          If they do they must be really shallow. Sexuality is not something so petty and frivolous.
          'If you are grateful, I will surely increase you [in favor]'

          Surah Ibrahim (14:7)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post

            No gay is 100% gay, there are in society more ex-gays than gays.

            we've had gay reverts on our dawah stalls, 3 of which are now happily married. They have some attraction to women, they just because of certain psychological issues prefer men so no it's not okay.
            Maybe they were bisexual. Do their wives know they used to be gay? Is it something that women would like to be aware of, or does it come under not revealing ones past sins?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

              reallt subhanAllah

              how did they change what was the process and how long did it take

              They have to acknowledge it themselves first, but if you ever speak to a homosexual as a human being, who is struggling with their own evil just like we all have our problems they will often tell you what messed them up, and that it is a preference not an absolute to them.

              But it's like any perversion, people get more and more into it through obsessing on it, and acting upon it. Likewise to break such habits requires directing thoughts down more productive routes, and dealing with the underlying psychological and spiritual issues.

              So most homosexual men have been abused, either in childhood or early adulthood by a man, usually one they have trusted. No not everyone who is abused ends up homo, but almost all homos have been. So they start to think there is something wrong with them that caused this, but if they deal with these issues, as well as becoming stronger in emaan is possible to leave this.

              In fact it's possible without this, there are actually more ex-gays even among non-Muslims than there are gays, i.e more people who saw themselves as gay, then gave it up and become straight than those who are gay in total numbers.

              If you ever get a gay who is preachy, telling you how many people are gay etc, which is almost always 10% in their heads... because of some very dodgy stats they use, just ask them this. Ask them how many gay people they have known well, friends with over the years. Then ask them how many left it. It's their 'dirty' secret they don't like to talk about but it's usually a fair number.


              Originally posted by Eorlingas View Post

              Maybe they were bisexual. Do their wives know they used to be gay? Is it something that women would like to be aware of, or does it come under not revealing ones past sins?
              As said before, there are no 100% gay people I have met, sickeningly the obverse is also true, that without a strong moral code, and in the worse environments many straight men will act gay, i.e prisons or single sex schools if they're not managed properly.

              And on their wives knowing, yes they did. it would be there choice not to tell them, but it's a bad move to keep something this big and dark a secret. Especially as in today's world, with all the info out there on people online and in the community, something like this would destroy a marriage if it came out later.
              Last edited by Gingerbeardman; 06-08-21, 09:17 AM.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by mraamohamed View Post
                As-salamu alaykum (السلام عليكم) OK to add some levity to this topic, I think all people should have a gay person in their lives, they gays are great at color matching and design. Now that being said I agree with Kass but not in so many HARSH words, people are who they are we can not change that we can just change how we respond to them, now I would not go out directly searching for someone of the LGBTQ persuasion, but as Allah has said we have to have tolerance for all people. Who knows maybe you can convert them to Islam and bring them to the light. Alhamdulillah(الحمد لله).
                Mr Mraa

                Do not come to ummah.com and lie on Allah and say things that Allah said that He does not say

                Do not play this "we get along with everyone" routine here

                We are Muslims, this forum is to discuss Islam, whether you are Muslim or not. But if you start posting lies about Allah you will not stay here long

                Now, if you are confused or need assistance, we will do what we can, but It would be haram for us to tolerate such deception on this forum

                We all will visit the graves and have to answer to Allah, i do not want to testify against you on the day of judgment
                .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                دولة الإسلامية باقية





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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post

                  No gay is 100% gay, there are in society more ex-gays than gays.

                  we've had gay reverts on our dawah stalls, 3 of which are now happily married. They have some attraction to women, they just because of certain psychological issues prefer men so no it's not okay.
                  i don’t want to seem judgmental but I personally wouldn’t marry an ex-gay. All the ex-gays that I’ve heard about, marry a woman, have children and then in their 50 and 60’s realize that they are still gay. Or they end up cheating on you with a man throughout the marriage. So to save myself the heartbreak and divorce later down the road, I’ll stick with straight men. But if that’s what other people are into, do enjoy.

                  P.S. If you have attractions to women and men you are bisexual and that’s not who I am speaking about.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dee View Post

                    i don’t want to seem judgmental but I personally wouldn’t marry an ex-gay. All the ex-gays that I’ve heard about, marry a woman, have children and then in their 50 and 60’s realize that they are still gay. Or they end up cheating on you with a man throughout the marriage. So to save myself the heartbreak and divorce later down the road, I’ll stick with straight men. But if that’s what other people are into, do enjoy.

                    P.S. If you have attractions to women and men you are bisexual and that’s not who I am speaking about.
                    And I get that, it's abhorrent to even think about a spouse getting involved in that lifestyle, but the the whole gay / lesbian / bi and all the other alphabet soup we've got these days and are told is fact by society is a lie.

                    No one has to act this way, it's a mental aberration and sinful behaviour both of which can be overcome.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post

                      And I get that, it's abhorrent to even think about a spouse getting involved in that lifestyle, but the the whole gay / lesbian / bi and all the other alphabet soup we've got these days and are told is fact by society is a lie.

                      No one has to act this way, it's a mental aberration and sinful behaviour both of which can be overcome.
                      Okay, if that’s what you believe. However in my mind if you were actually gay before, you are still gay and I won’t be marrying you. If other people are okay with marrying someone who has ‘overcome’ being gay, kudos to them.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dee View Post

                        Okay, if that’s what you believe. However in my mind if you were actually gay before, you are still gay and I won’t be marrying you. If other people are okay with marrying someone who has ‘overcome’ being gay, kudos to them.
                        I am not saying you should, even though I've helped people who are like this I would be very reluctant to let a daughter of mine marry one.

                        But on the idea that they were not 'gay' but suffering from spiritual / mental aberrations which needed correctly, let me set another example.

                        Some people have a criminal frame of mind. They can rob, deal drugs, even those which cause loss of life, use violence even murder quite easily. They didn't start this way, they took certain life choices, which they then justified to themselves, to either diminish the scale of or even justify their crimes. They then more easily move onto other crimes, and more and more.

                        They lose good friends, whilst keeping those who are now like them or indifferent to it, further encouraging this behaviour and helping them feel there is nothing wrong with it.

                        The habitual lifestyle they build up, literally the structure of how their brain works on a day to day basis all supports this lifestyle choice and they move further into justifying it and into the circle of those who believe it is okay.

                        At this point it is not always easy to convince such people they are in the wrong, their every daily move supports them and what they have chosen, all those around them with the exception of many the odd family member who cannot give up on them supports the life they have chosen, they consider themselves not as evil, but doing what is necessary, ignoring everyone else who does not need to live this way.

                        But people like this turn their life around, sometimes a chink of light gets through, they question themselves and what they are doing and then can slowly turn their life around, often with several false starts and falling back into bad habits, before in the end through choosing different life options minute by minute, hour by hour they rebuild a better mental / spiritual state and can live a more normal life.

                        Homosexuality is no different to this. Often a lot less evil at least in it's consequences to others but sisters will queue up to marry a former bad boy with prison tats and a gold tooth.
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                        • #27
                          I find that gay people who were born and raised in the Muslim community tend to be very irreligious, probably because they want to justify their sexual orientation to themselves so that often distances them from the deen. At least that's been my experience of those I've come across (maybe there are others who aren't like that). Those gay men who marry women tend to lead a double life, they marry due to family pressure and to please the parents but after marriage have affairs with men. I've seen that happen to two women in my extended family- then they found out after marriage that their husbands were gay. In the case of one marriage, they stayed together in spite of everything, his wife stuck by him his whole life, even had a child with him, the other woman got divorced not long after finding out and is now married to someone else.

                          There was a guy on Ummah chat who was struggling with gay desires for a long time. He was also VERY irreligious and came from a very messed up family in that his male cousins in particular were very irreligious and his family were quite jahil. I think he chatted on some gay forums about sexuality and his curiosity about men and inclination towards them. One time he actually arranged to meet up a man to kinda hook up, but when he actually got there, he changed his mind and decided to never do that again. On some level he knew it was an abhorrent thing. Eventually he agreed to an arranged marriage with a girl his family chose from Pakistan. Although he turned away from his gay inclinations, he was still very irreligious and very promiscuous with women, even during his marriage. Last time I heard from him he told me his wife was pregnant- from what I could tell he was not treating her well at all. This was some years ago and I have no idea as to what became of them since then.

                          I have good reason to strongly suspect one of my extended family relatives is gay. He's never openly admitted it to us, but little indicators kept coming up: his irreligious lifestyle, his disinterest in getting married even though he's been eligible for decades and well established in his work and career etc, his friendships with gay men, his choice of career, even the way he presents himself- each of these things in themselves would be meaningless but collectively point to this. We have a kind of "don't ask don't tell" policy in our family- so we don't pry into his personal life or question him on when he's getting married, but if he admitted to being gay, I'd probably delete him from my friends list and want nothing to do with him.
                          The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post

                            I am not saying you should, even though I've helped people who are like this I would be very reluctant to let a daughter of mine marry one.

                            But on the idea that they were not 'gay' but suffering from spiritual / mental aberrations which needed correctly, let me set another example.

                            Some people have a criminal frame of mind. They can rob, deal drugs, even those which cause loss of life, use violence even murder quite easily. They didn't start this way, they took certain life choices, which they then justified to themselves, to either diminish the scale of or even justify their crimes. They then more easily move onto other crimes, and more and more.

                            They lose good friends, whilst keeping those who are now like them or indifferent to it, further encouraging this behaviour and helping them feel there is nothing wrong with it.

                            The habitual lifestyle they build up, literally the structure of how their brain works on a day to day basis all supports this lifestyle choice and they move further into justifying it and into the circle of those who believe it is okay.

                            At this point it is not always easy to convince such people they are in the wrong, their every daily move supports them and what they have chosen, all those around them with the exception of many the odd family member who cannot give up on them supports the life they have chosen, they consider themselves not as evil, but doing what is necessary, ignoring everyone else who does not need to live this way.

                            But people like this turn their life around, sometimes a chink of light gets through, they question themselves and what they are doing and then can slowly turn their life around, often with several false starts and falling back into bad habits, before in the end through choosing different life options minute by minute, hour by hour they rebuild a better mental / spiritual state and can live a more normal life.

                            Homosexuality is no different to this. Often a lot less evil at least in it's consequences to others but sisters will queue up to marry a former bad boy with prison tats and a gold tooth.
                            People that rob and deal drugs can’t be compared to homosexuality. Robbing and dealing drugs mostly have to do with circumstances, everyone isn’t fortunate and some may feel like that is there only option. If anything people who are in the closet may think that being ‘straight’ is there only option, and in the future when they realize that that isn’t their only option. They will only end up hurting the person that they are married to.

                            However most people who commit murder, like serial killers, often display strange behaviors as a child. They may seem nice to friends and people looking on but when you talk to their parents you realize they were far from the perfect child. They exhibit behavioral traits that a ‘normal’ child wouldn’t and when they are interviewed you can tell that they are far from apologetic. Yes some serial killers do feel bad and turn their lives around but it’s as rare as me seeing a white squirrel.
                            My mother watches documentaries on murders everyday, so my opinion is based off of what I’ve seen on the tele because my country doesn’t have serial killers.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dee View Post

                              People that rob and deal drugs can’t be compared to homosexuality. Robbing and dealing drugs mostly have to do with circumstances, everyone isn’t fortunate and some may feel like that is there only option. If anything people who are in the closet may think that being ‘straight’ is there only option, and in the future when they realize that that isn’t their only option. They will only end up hurting the person that they are married to.

                              However most people who commit murder, like serial killers, often display strange behaviors as a child. They may seem nice to friends and people looking on but when you talk to their parents you realize they were far from the perfect child. They exhibit behavioral traits that a ‘normal’ child wouldn’t and when they are interviewed you can tell that they are far from apologetic. Yes some serial killers do feel bad and turn their lives around but it’s as rare as me seeing a white squirrel.
                              My mother watches documentaries on murders everyday, so my opinion is based off of what I’ve seen on the tele because my country doesn’t have serial killers.
                              I am sure if you think about it a bit more you'll realise the tele-dramas and documentaries are not a good representation of criminal behaviour in general, or indeed murderers.

                              My own experience is from looking at friends, and yes family members who got involved in these lifestyles, as well as new Muslims who come from such an environment. These people have built up mental and emotional pathways to live with what they've done and it takes time to built new ones.

                              Though the sin is not the same, the process of going into it, and coming out it is very similar.
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