Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why do we not all begin life in Paradise, and continue to reside there eternally?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question? Why do we not all begin life in Paradise, and continue to reside there eternally?


    I'd like to start off this by saying this is the most fundamental doubt I have. If you can clear it, I'd have strong core beliefs overall, the rest would just be minor ones that can easily be dealt with/ignored without posing a threat to my faith. Do not take this to mean me attacking the religion or its principles, I sincerely desire a better understanding of my religion. This is probably going to be a lengthy post. I know that Allah is Most-Knowing, so I try to shrug it off, but it has continued to be an obstacle between me and my Lord.

    The purpose of our life on Earth is to pass the test of abstaining from evil, doing good (worship etc), so that we can enter heaven. Those who fail the test will live in Hell for eternity for their sins.

    Is not Allah responsible for our sins, because he is the one who put the potential for sin in us in the first place? Allah says in the Quran "Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - he puts him on a straight path" (6:39) and "And whoever Allah leaves astray - never will you find for him a way" (4:143). All the people who are going to hell have already been decided by Allah. They will not be able to change his plan. How is one even responsible for what he does, if Allah, the Supreme Creator, has already decided his fate? I've heard that people are still responsible because they have free will, and that they can choose what's good for them and go to heaven. However, for the people predestined to be dwellers of Hell, this is irrelevant, since they are bound by Allah's plan - which is, Hell.

    Why do we have to be tested in the first place anyway? Having a system of heaven and hell means there will be people who fail. Many. Most, in fact, according to the Quran: "but most of them do not believe" (26:190).

    The Quran repeatedly speaks of Allah's forgiveness. Allah is All-Good and All-Powerful, and he does not require our worship. Therefore, I cannot understand why everybody can't just start in paradise and live happily forever. The struggle on Earth, is, in my eyes, completely unnecessary, and is mostly why I find myself getting demotivated so often.

    Here is a reply I got from someone before (he did not reply to me after this).
    The answer to your question, brother, is in the Qur'an: "Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant" (33:72). Allah asked man as to whether he wished to be tested; mankind opted in. I agree with you that the risk is very high; that is exactly why the Qur'an calls mankind "unjust and ignorant." But we cannot blame Allah for something that we ourselves have agreed to. That is why, if we are able to pass this test, Allah promises, "Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do" (16:97).

    Had Allah wished, He could have certainly given us the opportunity to live in Paradise for eternity. The life thereof is something, however, that Allah wishes to give us in return for something. Will we ever be able to do enough to repay him? No. But the point is not about repaying him; it's about having the right intentions and putting in the necessary effort.

    You may know that it would be relatively easy for you to pursue whatever profession it is that you wish to pursue. Before you do so, however, you are made to undergo a series of tests that you have no intention of undergoing. While this does seem like a unnecessary to you, considering your awareness of the fact that you would have been able to excel regardless, you carry on, knowing full well that the system can be very unfair; it is not one that you had opted in for, but it is a necessity if you are to achieve what you wish to achieve. Allah, however, had offered us an opportunity. It is we who had decided to take him up on the offer. The decision was not His to make; it was ours. How can we blame Him for something that we ourselves had opted in for?
    Mankind was created unjust and ignorant. Therefore, shouldn't responsibility be held by the Creator for their actions, since He created them such?

    I have three analogies here I'd like to make:
    1- I read the tafsir of (33:72) by ibn Kathir, and he explains that it is Adam (pbuh) who, in his dialogue with Allah, agrees to The Trust. Why is the entirety of humanity responsible for what Adam decided to agree to? If someone commits a crime, only they are held responsible for it - not their children [please don't take this as me slandering Adam (pbuh), that is not my intention].

    2- Qabil (Cain) killed Habil (Abel). There is a hadith that is agreed upon by The 6 Authentic Books unanimously (except Abu Dawood) that states "Any soul that is unjustly killed, then the first son of Adam will carry a burden of its shedding". In the same sense, shouldn't Allah also be somewhat responsible for our sins, because he created us that way?

    3- A profiteer who loots someone of their money is responsible for looting the person, even if the other person should have been knowledgeable about the item he was buying. So, why did Allah even offer The Trust? (Again, not accusing Allah).

    Had Allah wished, He could have certainly given us the opportunity to live in Paradise for eternity. The life thereof is something, however, that Allah wishes to give us in return for something.
    It's about having the right intentions and putting in the necessary effort.
    I just cannot seem to come to terms with the fact that Allah, who is Most Merciful, Most Forgiving, would make people go through so much pointless misery and pain, and still end up most likely in hell, when he could just make everyone start in Heaven and without evil.That way, everyone would be happy, and nothing would go wrong, and there would be no suffering.

    Also, why make us have to put so much effort? What's the point? The result is the same whether we go through the difficulties of this life and go to heaven, or start in heaven. Except, of course, most people will find their way into Hell.

    So far, I've talked to two brothers about this and they haven't been able to convince me of it. I have watched some lectures regarding the topic, but they only lightly touch upon it and their arguments/logic has not been convincing in the slightest either.

    I have had this doubt for about a year now, since I started thinking more about these things. I have just accepted this as the harsh and sad reality and moved on, but it does recur and take a major jab at my faith levels. It does not sit well in my head with the concept of Allah being Most-Merciful, Most-Beneficent. I really feel that if I can resolve this doubt, I'd be able to progress better.

    Thank you for reading. I hope someone out there can elucidate this matter for me.



    "When you want to cry, laugh.
    If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

  • #2
    Why do we not all begin life in Paradise, and continue to reside there eternally?
    Why do you think you deserve eternal salvation?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

      Why do you think you deserve eternal salvation?
      I never said that.
      "When you want to cry, laugh.
      If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bolt View Post

        I never said that.
        ...

        Why do we not all begin life in Paradise, and continue to reside there eternally?

        ...

        ...he could just make everyone start in Heaven and without evil...
        Why do you deserve that?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

          ...



          Why do you deserve that?
          I am not saying here that I deserve it. I am asking that since Allah is All-Good that why'd we have to go through this life, ridden with issues, when He would lose nothing of it.
          "When you want to cry, laugh.
          If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bolt View Post

            I am not saying here that I deserve it. I am asking that since Allah is All-Good that why'd we have to go through this life, ridden with issues, when He would lose nothing of it.
            That's the only logical explanation. If you're questioning the need to be tested then you're essentially saying you should be given a pass automatically.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

              That's the only logical explanation. If you're questioning the need to be tested then you're essentially saying you should be given a pass automatically.
              This is not how I've ever looked at it, and I do not agree with that. I'm trying to understand why Allah, as being All-Good and Most-Merciful, would make us go through a life of trial and tribulation when He could let everyone be in Heaven from the start. I'm not asking for a free pass. With this question left unanswered, it does not paint the picture of such a All-Good and Most-Merciful god in my mind. Hence, I'm seeking to get that answered. Once it is satisfactorily answered, I would happily go on with life, insha'Allah.

              Your question could also be reversed. Why do I deserve going through trial and tribulation?

              Does me going through the test successfully make me deserve paradise? No, it would still be a favor from Allah upon us, otherwise we would still not make it there.
              ​​​
              I don't understand why I'm being asked questions instead of my questions being answered.
              Last edited by Bolt; 11-08-20, 06:15 PM. Reason: Typo.
              "When you want to cry, laugh.
              If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bolt View Post

                This is not how I've ever looked at it, and I do not agree with that. I'm trying to understand why Allah, as being All-Good and Most-Merciful, would make us go through a life of trial and tribulation when He could let everyone be in Heaven from the start...
                You say you don't look at it like that and then proceed to look at it exactly like that.


                ...I'm not asking for a free pass...
                You are:
                He could let everyone be in Heaven from the start

                ...it does not paint the picture of such a All-Good and Most-Merciful god in my mind. Hence, I'm seeking to get that answered. Once it is satisfactorily answered, I would happily go on with life, insha'Allah...
                Do you have a preconceived idea of 'God' and are trying fit Allah in with this image you have? That's what this looks like.


                ...Your question could also be reversed. Why do I deserve going through trial and tribulation?...
                How can you complain about going to hell and also about having a trial. You would argue in favour of a trial before judgement is passed, surely?
                ​​​

                ...I don't understand why I'm being asked questions instead of my questions being answered.
                The question doesn't make sense coming from a Muslim. It sounds like something you'd hear from some amateur atheist who's just discovered philosophy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm assuming there's no answer to my question since it's not being answered.

                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                  You say you don't look at it like that and then proceed to look at it exactly like that.
                  I'm trying to understand the reasoning, which has not been explained to me so far.

                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                  Do you have a preconceived idea of 'God' and are trying fit Allah in with this image you have? That's what this looks like.
                  No. Do you disagree with Allah being All-Good, All-Merciful, then? I'm assuming not. So, then, please answer the question.

                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                  How can you complain about going to hell and also about having a trial. You would argue in favour of a trial before judgement is passed, surely?
                  see above.

                  The question doesn't make sense coming from a Muslim. It sounds like something you'd hear from some amateur atheist who's just discovered philosophy.
                  So, being Muslim means not asking questions?
                  That's fine once your foundation is well built. This is one of the foundational questions I need to know.

                  7 posts in, and I get called an atheist. This is why I made this post: https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/fa...king-questions

                  I'm just trying to understand a doubt I've had. And for that reason I come across as an atheist.

                  Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if you could just answer the topic at hand?
                  Last edited by Bolt; 11-08-20, 06:51 PM. Reason: typo
                  "When you want to cry, laugh.
                  If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You didn't reply to the following as well:
                    Does me going through the test successfully make me deserve paradise? No, it would still be a favor from Allah upon us, otherwise we would still not make it there.
                    Last edited by Bolt; 11-08-20, 06:50 PM.
                    "When you want to cry, laugh.
                    If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                      I'm assuming there's no answer to my question since it's not being answered...
                      The question is flawed as I will show below.

                      ...I'm trying to understand the reasoning, which has not been explained to me so far.


                      No. Do you disagree with Allah being All-Good, All-Merciful, then? I'm assuming not. So, then, please answer the question.


                      see above...
                      I don't disagree. Do you disagree that Allah is al-Malik, al-Qahhar, al-Hakeem, al-'Aleem, al-'Adl,al-Haseeb... I assume not. This is why the question is flawed and doesn't make sense coming from a Muslim.

                      So, being Muslim means not asking questions?
                      Not flawed ones.

                      ...That's fine once your foundation is well built. This is one of the foundational questions I need to know.
                      I'm not sure what this means. The foundation is

                      ...7 posts in, and I get called an atheist. This is why I made this post: https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/fa...king-questions

                      I'm just trying to understand a doubt I've had. And for that reason I come across as an atheist...
                      Nobody called you an atheist. If this is the level of your comprehension then perhaps trying to understand divine wisdom isn't something you should be pursuing.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                        You didn't reply to the following as well:
                        I agree with that statement. Jannah is a blessing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                          I'd like to start off this by saying this is the most fundamental doubt I have. If you can clear it, I'd have strong core beliefs overall, the rest would just be minor ones that can easily be dealt with/ignored without posing a threat to my faith. Do not take this to mean me attacking the religion or its principles, I sincerely desire a better understanding of my religion. This is probably going to be a lengthy post. I know that Allah is Most-Knowing, so I try to shrug it off, but it has continued to be an obstacle between me and my Lord.

                          The purpose of our life on Earth is to pass the test of abstaining from evil, doing good (worship etc), so that we can enter heaven. Those who fail the test will live in Hell for eternity for their sins.

                          Is not Allah responsible for our sins, because he is the one who put the potential for sin in us in the first place? Allah says in the Quran "Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - he puts him on a straight path" (6:39) and "And whoever Allah leaves astray - never will you find for him a way" (4:143). All the people who are going to hell have already been decided by Allah. They will not be able to change his plan. How is one even responsible for what he does, if Allah, the Supreme Creator, has already decided his fate? I've heard that people are still responsible because they have free will, and that they can choose what's good for them and go to heaven. However, for the people predestined to be dwellers of Hell, this is irrelevant, since they are bound by Allah's plan - which is, Hell.

                          Why do we have to be tested in the first place anyway? Having a system of heaven and hell means there will be people who fail. Many. Most, in fact, according to the Quran: "but most of them do not believe" (26:190).

                          The Quran repeatedly speaks of Allah's forgiveness. Allah is All-Good and All-Powerful, and he does not require our worship. Therefore, I cannot understand why everybody can't just start in paradise and live happily forever. The struggle on Earth, is, in my eyes, completely unnecessary, and is mostly why I find myself getting demotivated so often.

                          Here is a reply I got from someone before (he did not reply to me after this).


                          Mankind was created unjust and ignorant. Therefore, shouldn't responsibility be held by the Creator for their actions, since He created them such?

                          I have three analogies here I'd like to make:
                          1- I read the tafsir of (33:72) by ibn Kathir, and he explains that it is Adam (pbuh) who, in his dialogue with Allah, agrees to The Trust. Why is the entirety of humanity responsible for what Adam decided to agree to? If someone commits a crime, only they are held responsible for it - not their children [please don't take this as me slandering Adam (pbuh), that is not my intention].

                          2- Qabil (Cain) killed Habil (Abel). There is a hadith that is agreed upon by The 6 Authentic Books unanimously (except Abu Dawood) that states "Any soul that is unjustly killed, then the first son of Adam will carry a burden of its shedding". In the same sense, shouldn't Allah also be somewhat responsible for our sins, because he created us that way?

                          3- A profiteer who loots someone of their money is responsible for looting the person, even if the other person should have been knowledgeable about the item he was buying. So, why did Allah even offer The Trust? (Again, not accusing Allah).


                          I just cannot seem to come to terms with the fact that Allah, who is Most Merciful, Most Forgiving, would make people go through so much pointless misery and pain, and still end up most likely in hell, when he could just make everyone start in Heaven and without evil.That way, everyone would be happy, and nothing would go wrong, and there would be no suffering.

                          Also, why make us have to put so much effort? What's the point? The result is the same whether we go through the difficulties of this life and go to heaven, or start in heaven. Except, of course, most people will find their way into Hell.

                          So far, I've talked to two brothers about this and they haven't been able to convince me of it. I have watched some lectures regarding the topic, but they only lightly touch upon it and their arguments/logic has not been convincing in the slightest either.

                          I have had this doubt for about a year now, since I started thinking more about these things. I have just accepted this as the harsh and sad reality and moved on, but it does recur and take a major jab at my faith levels. It does not sit well in my head with the concept of Allah being Most-Merciful, Most-Beneficent. I really feel that if I can resolve this doubt, I'd be able to progress better.

                          Thank you for reading. I hope someone out there can elucidate this matter for me.


                          By the way, I am writing a response to your question but it is taken a while. I keep getting side-tracked into some interesting theological side-notes. Insha'Allah will post the answer soon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                            By the way, I am writing a response to your question but it is taken a while. I keep getting side-tracked into some interesting theological side-notes. Insha'Allah will post the answer soon.
                            Alright man
                            "When you want to cry, laugh.
                            If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                              The question is flawed as I will show below.

                              I don't disagree. Do you disagree that Allah is al-Malik, al-Qahhar, al-Hakeem, al-'Aleem, al-'Adl,al-Haseeb... I assume not. This is why the question is flawed and doesn't make sense coming from a Muslim.

                              Not flawed ones.

                              I'm not sure what this means. The foundation is

                              Nobody called you an atheist. If this is the level of your comprehension then perhaps trying to understand divine wisdom isn't something you should be pursuing.

                              What you said is effectively calling me an atheist.
                              Nevermind
                              Maybe some other users can post smth helpful.
                              "When you want to cry, laugh.
                              If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X