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  • Want to become a Muslim but confused about position towards Shia

    I have been wanting to become a Muslim for a while now because i believe it to be the truth about God which i have always believed in but raised in a secular family, and one main other reason was that i thought in Islam culturally as opposed to say Christianity there was more unity especially against atheism, western imperialism and global foreign policy. Yet i find the opposite. where i live in the UK i hear Shamsi (and many others in speakers corner) saying that Shia are not even Muslims and that entire countries like Iran are not Muslim countries. That's millions and millions of people who lay people in the west identify as Muslim are not even Muslim according to a lot of Sunnis. I hear this not only in person but all over social media like when the guy in Iran was killed by Trump there are thousands of Muslims celebrating on Twitter and Youtube comments praising Trump and saying "let the mushrik kill each other" "let the kuffar kill each other". I go onto forums and see Muslims saying Shia are worse than Zionists and the biggest enemies of Islam. I only began researching Islam in the first place because a shia from Iraq gave me a Quran and encouraged me to read it. The Pakistanis i talked to irl never even mentioned about the shia and were all about unity in the Muslims yet when a big event like recently takes place i see nothing but condemnation of entire apparent Muslim countries like Iran. I was shocked to see so many Muslims praising Trump and saying God Bless America after this recent news.

    In order to become a Muslim is it required to harshly condemn the Shia in this way and call them kaffir? is it required to research their beliefs and speak out against them? or am i supposed to consider them my Muslim brother? What i see Shamsi and many black converts who do dawah say (I am black btw) they say the opposite. That shia, sufi, deobandi, etc are not Muslims at all. So as a new Muslim if an atheist come to me and say "Two women got locked up in Iran for 90 years for not wearing hijab this is your Sharia", how do i respond to that? Am i supposed to say "well Iran is not a Muslim country"? or am i supposed to contest his point of the basis of Iran being a Muslim country but doing a wrong interpretation of the Sharia? I have to be absolutely sure of these things before i decide to follow something. I don't want to become a Muslim who is not knowledgeable about the religion.



  • #2
    Originally posted by truthresearcher01 View Post
    ...So as a new Muslim if an atheist come to me and say "Two women got locked up in Iran for 90 years for not wearing hijab this is your Sharia", how do i respond to that? Am i supposed to say "well Iran is not a Muslim country"? or am i supposed to contest his point of the basis of Iran being a Muslim country but doing a wrong interpretation of the Sharia? I have to be absolutely sure of these things before i decide to follow something. I don't want to become a Muslim who is not knowledgeable about the religion...
    You answered your own question: gain knowledge

    Comment


    • #3
      Pillars of Islam:


      Articles of faith:



      Anyone who sticks to the pilars of Islam and articles of faith is Muslim.

      If any person, irrelevant of his background, claims that "The present Quran is abridged where as the Original Quran is kept by Imam Mehdi",this person is no longer Muslim. Simple like that. However if that person doesn't deny any of the articles of faith, then he is a Muslim and it's dangerous to make takfeer to him.

      The Messenger, upon whom be peace, said:
      "He who says to his brother 'O disbeliever', then it returns upon one of them." Reported by Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Malik, At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud
      https://sunnahonline.com/library/beliefs-and-methodology/54-the-danger-of-rushing-to-perform-takfir

      As a common Muslim, it's enough to live by the pillars of Islam. If you are a Talib-Ilm, then nothing is wrong about having a formal Islam education with basics of Aqidah. However it's better to avoid conflicts betwen sects till you have a firm ground in the basic Islamic knowledge.
      Muslims Search Engine !
      And those who disbelieved will then say, " Our Lord, show us those who misled us of the jinn and mankind ,so we may put them under our feet that they will be among the lowest."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by truthresearcher01 View Post
        I have been wanting to become a Muslim for a while now because i believe it to be the truth about God which i have always believed in but raised in a secular family, and one main other reason was that i thought in Islam culturally as opposed to say Christianity there was more unity especially against atheism, western imperialism and global foreign policy. Yet i find the opposite. where i live in the UK i hear Shamsi (and many others in speakers corner) saying that Shia are not even Muslims and that entire countries like Iran are not Muslim countries. That's millions and millions of people who lay people in the west identify as Muslim are not even Muslim according to a lot of Sunnis. I hear this not only in person but all over social media like when the guy in Iran was killed by Trump there are thousands of Muslims celebrating on Twitter and Youtube comments praising Trump and saying "let the mushrik kill each other" "let the kuffar kill each other". I go onto forums and see Muslims saying Shia are worse than Zionists and the biggest enemies of Islam. I only began researching Islam in the first place because a shia from Iraq gave me a Quran and encouraged me to read it. The Pakistanis i talked to irl never even mentioned about the shia and were all about unity in the Muslims yet when a big event like recently takes place i see nothing but condemnation of entire apparent Muslim countries like Iran. I was shocked to see so many Muslims praising Trump and saying God Bless America after this recent news.

        In order to become a Muslim is it required to harshly condemn the Shia in this way and call them kaffir? is it required to research their beliefs and speak out against them? or am i supposed to consider them my Muslim brother? What i see Shamsi and many black converts who do dawah say (I am black btw) they say the opposite. That shia, sufi, deobandi, etc are not Muslims at all. So as a new Muslim if an atheist come to me and say "Two women got locked up in Iran for 90 years for not wearing hijab this is your Sharia", how do i respond to that? Am i supposed to say "well Iran is not a Muslim country"? or am i supposed to contest his point of the basis of Iran being a Muslim country but doing a wrong interpretation of the Sharia? I have to be absolutely sure of these things before i decide to follow something. I don't want to become a Muslim who is not knowledgeable about the religion.

        I understand your confusion.

        First of all, if anything is confusing you, try to learn about it from unbiased sources. The following is a great lecture about the Shi'a, quoting from their own books (shown below) :

        The Sunnah Defense channel on YouTube is also a great resource, but it goes into quite a bit of detail sometimes and deep matters: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCES...lBBYmYiiA6b-Cg

        Secondly, unfortunately, there are many sects in Islam as well. However, we have unity and a great bond as well, for those who follow the Quran and Sunnah. You will not find this type of bond anywhere else, because we take our religion from the sources. We read and learn first, then we believe and act; as opposed to believing and acting first, then seeking to justify it after.

        In regard to Sunni vs. Shi'a: we have to distinguish between their laymen (such as the man who gave you the Quran and encouraged you to read it) and their scholars or learned people. Also, it is not a requirement of becoming Muslim to condemn anyone. When it comes to condemning, a rule of thumb is not to refer to specific people from the laymen Shi'a, Sufis, or Deobandi. Rather, we say that whoever believes in such and such or says such and such is misguided or is not Muslim, etc.

        For example, we say that whoever curses the Companions, or they believe Ali should have been the prophet, or that Ali is part of Allah or has Allah's attributes, such a person is not a Muslim. But don't say such and such person (naming them) is a kafir because he is a Shi'a who believe in the above. We do not know whether or not he holds those beliefs. He may be born into the religion of Shi'asim and doesn't know anything else.
         

        Comment


        • #5
          If you read the Qur'an and read what Shias believe, you will feel that you are reading about two different religions. I think that itself speaks enough about them and the validity of their beliefs.

          Comment


          • #6

            December 10, 2019
            DEVIATIONS OF SHIA AND AHMADIYYA




            -


            Question

            We are in urgent need of information about the differences between the Sunnis and Shi’is. We hope that you can explain something about their beliefs?.


            Answer

            Praise be to Allaah.
            The Shi’ah have many sects. Some of them are kaafirs who worship ‘Ali and call upon him, and they worship Faatimah, al-Husayn and others. Some of them say that Jibreel (peace be upon him) betrayed the trust and the Prophethood belonged to ‘Ali, not to Muhammad. There are also others among them, such as the Imamiyyah – the Raafidi Ithna ‘Ashari – who worship ‘Ali and say that their imams are better than the angels and Prophets.

            There are many groups among them; some are kaafirs and some are not kaafirs. The mildest among them are those who say that ‘Ali was better than the three (Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan). The one who says this is not a kaafir but he is mistaken, because ‘Ali was the fourth, and Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan were better than him. If a person prefers him over them then he is erring and is going against the consensus of the Sahaabah, but he is not a kaafir. The Shi’ah are of different levels and types. The one who wants to know more about that may refer to the books of the scholars, such as al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb [available in English under the same title, translated by Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips], Manhaaj al-Sunnah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, and other books that have been written on this topic, such as al-Shi’ah wa’l-Sunnah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer [also available in English translation] and many other books which explain their errors and evils – we ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

            Among the most evil of them are the Imamis, Ithna ‘Asharis and Nusayris, who are called al-Raafidah because they rejected (rafadu) Zayd ibn ‘Ali when he refused to disavow the two Shaykhs Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, so they went against him and rejected him. Not everyone who claims to be a Muslim can be accepted as such. If a person claims to be a Muslim, his claim should be examined. The one who worships Allaah alone and believes in His Messenger, and follows that which he brought, is a real Muslim. If a person claims to be a Muslim but he worships Faatimah or al-Badawi or al-‘Aydaroos or anyone else, then he is not a Muslim. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly, anyone who reviles the faith, or does not pray, even if he says that he is a Muslim, is not a Muslim. The same applies to anyone who mocks the faith or mocks the prayer or zakaah or fasting or Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or who disbelieves in him, or says that he was ignorant or that he did not convey the message in full or convey the message clearly. All such people are kaafirs. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.



            -



            What is the Qadiani (Ahmadiyyah) sect? Is it permissible for a Muslim to marry one of them?


            Question


            I just wana know about Ahmedi Firqah. the reason is that one of my friend start loving an Ahmedi, though i told him that its wrong but he is so much involve now. i just want the answer so that i fwd him.


            Answer

            Praise be to Allaah.
            In the answer to question no. 4060 we have explained that this group, which is known as Ahmadiyyah or Qadianiyyah, the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, are kaafirs. In that answer you will find a discussion of their kaafir beliefs and what the scholars have said about them.

            Based on this, it is not permissible for a Muslim to marry one of them or to give his daughter in marriage to them, because they are kaafirs and apostates, and Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

            “And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allaah Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al‑Mushrikoon till they believe (in Allaah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrikoon) invite you to the Fire, but Allaah invites (you) to Paradise and forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to mankind that they may remember”

            [al-Baqarah 2:221]

            al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (p. 99):

            i.e., do not marry mushrik women so long as they still believe in shirk, until they believe, for a believing woman, no matter how ugly she is, is better than a mushrik woman, no matter how beautiful she is. This is general in meaning and includes all mushrik women. The verse in Soorat al-Maa'idah is more specific and permits marriage to women of the people of the Book, as Allaah says: “(Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time” [al-Maa’idah 5:5]…

            Then Allaah mentions the wisdom behind the prohibition on the marriage of a Muslim man or woman to one whose beliefs differ from theirs, as He says: “Those (Al-Mushrikoon) invite you to the Fire” i.e., by their words, actions and circumstances, and the one who mixes with them faces danger from them. The danger is not in any worldly sense; rather the danger is eternal doom. End quote.

            If this friend of yours is in a haraam relationship, then you must explain to him that this relationship is haraam and that it is not permissible for a Muslim to be alone with a non-mahram woman, or to shake hands with her or correspond with her, and that he cannot end this relationship by getting married because it is haraam to marry apostate women. He should look for a wife who is religiously committed and can help him to protect his religious commitment and to obey his Lord, and whom he can trust with his children.

            And Allaah knows best.


            http://abuibraham.blogspot.com/2019/...ahmadiyya.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by abuibrahammadinah View Post
              December 10, 2019
              DEVIATIONS OF SHIA AND AHMADIYYA




              -



              Aakhi, are these your fatawa, or are these copy and pastes? If they are C&P, you should provide a link to the original sources to give credit, and so that people can refer to them (both here and on your blog). The only reason I say this is because they share the same style and characteristics as fatawa from IslamQA.

              Allah Knows Best.
              "Yaa Allah grant me victory, or make me die Shaheed"

              Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.
              (surah al-anfal v.30)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by abuibrahammadinah View Post
                December 10, 2019
                DEVIATIONS OF SHIA AND AHMADIYYA

                .
                .
                The one who wants to know more about that may refer to the books of the scholars, such as al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb [available in English under the same title, translated by Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips], Manhaaj al-Sunnah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, and other books that have been written on this topic, such as al-Shi’ah wa’l-Sunnah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer [also available in English translation] and many other books which explain their errors and evils – we ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.
                .
                .
                salam akhi
                what if the authors were not right and we follow their opinions?
                do you think the following verses applicable to us?

                [Shakir 2:166] When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder.

                [Shakir 2:167] And those who followed shall say: Had there been for us a return, then we would renounce them as they have renounced us. Thus will Allah show them their deeds to be intense regret to them, and they shall not come forth from the fire.

                the preceding verse ONLY excluded mukmin from this unjust group of people.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by truthresearcher01 View Post
                  I have been wanting to become a Muslim for a while now because i believe it to be the truth about God which i have always believed in but raised in a secular family, and one main other reason was that i thought in Islam culturally as opposed to say Christianity there was more unity especially against atheism, western imperialism and global foreign policy. Yet i find the opposite. where i live in the UK i hear Shamsi (and many others in speakers corner) saying that Shia are not even Muslims and that entire countries like Iran are not Muslim countries. That's millions and millions of people who lay people in the west identify as Muslim are not even Muslim according to a lot of Sunnis. I hear this not only in person but all over social media like when the guy in Iran was killed by Trump there are thousands of Muslims celebrating on Twitter and Youtube comments praising Trump and saying "let the mushrik kill each other" "let the kuffar kill each other". I go onto forums and see Muslims saying Shia are worse than Zionists and the biggest enemies of Islam. I only began researching Islam in the first place because a shia from Iraq gave me a Quran and encouraged me to read it. The Pakistanis i talked to irl never even mentioned about the shia and were all about unity in the Muslims yet when a big event like recently takes place i see nothing but condemnation of entire apparent Muslim countries like Iran. I was shocked to see so many Muslims praising Trump and saying God Bless America after this recent news.

                  In order to become a Muslim is it required to harshly condemn the Shia in this way and call them kaffir? is it required to research their beliefs and speak out against them? or am i supposed to consider them my Muslim brother? What i see Shamsi and many black converts who do dawah say (I am black btw) they say the opposite. That shia, sufi, deobandi, etc are not Muslims at all. So as a new Muslim if an atheist come to me and say "Two women got locked up in Iran for 90 years for not wearing hijab this is your Sharia", how do i respond to that? Am i supposed to say "well Iran is not a Muslim country"? or am i supposed to contest his point of the basis of Iran being a Muslim country but doing a wrong interpretation of the Sharia? I have to be absolutely sure of these things before i decide to follow something. I don't want to become a Muslim who is not knowledgeable about the religion.

                  Shia movement is 1200 years old and it has vanished from the face of the earth.

                  Become Ahle Hadiss Muslim. Good for new Muslims to begin with.
                  There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As-Salamu Alaikum,

                    Alhamdulillah; the more you research these topics through authentic sources, the more you will learn to defend yourself and your faith from any opposition or verbal attack (no matter where it comes from). You will also gain a deep understanding for the fact that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and His beautiful religion is Perfect under all conditions, and that humans under all circumstances are not.

                    If you study the religion of Islam as a whole, you will find that it has five pillars. These pillars are as follows:
                    - Shahadah: “I bear witness that there is no deity (none truly to be worshipped) but, Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.”
                    - Salat: The obligatory five daily prayers
                    - Syam: The obligatory fasting in the month of Ramadan
                    - Zakat: The obligatory charity that is to be paid once a year
                    - Hajj: The pilgrimage to Mecka (if one is able)

                    I have never heard of any muslim who denies any of the above mentioned things, whether they call themselves sunni or shi'a. I have, however, met muslims who neglect these pillars themselves (even though they accept them as being obligatory) while at the same time, they slander other muslims for how they practise their faith. There are shia muslims who doesn't fast a day in Ramadan, but who slanders sunni muslims for "Hating 'Ali" (we don't). There are also sunni muslims who doesn't pray a single one of the daily prayers, but who slanders shi'a muslims for "worshipping stones" (they don't). Bottom line - anyone who doesn't pray the five daily prayers or fast the month of Ramadan has an issue with their own version of Islam.

                    Moreover, anyone who said the Shahadah is to be regarded as a muslim, unless they openly state or do something that is clearly Major Kufr (disbelief). Accusing an innocent muslim of Kufr is forbidden in Islam as Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says in the Qur'an, “O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers” [al-Hujuraat 49:11].

                    I personally disagree with the authenticity of shia books and evidences, and I don't agree with the principles of faith that is found in shia Islam- but that doesn't mean that I look down on those who do. They practise their faith in accordance to their beliefs and that doesn't harm me or disturb me in any way. If I were to accuse them of shirk or slander them, that's actually a sin that I would carry for acting cruel towards another human being.

                    So, to answer some of your questions in shaa Allah.

                    In order to become a Muslim is it required to harshly condemn the Shia in this way and call them kaffir?
                    No, I wouldn't advise you to follow the shi'a faith but I would argue that you need to treat all human beings with kindness and respect, and never to call anyone a kafir unless you are absolutely sure that they left the fold of Islam.

                    Is it required to research their beliefs and speak out against them?
                    No. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala cannot be harmed in any way. He is The Mighty, The Wise, The All-Seer, The All-Hearer and The All-Knower. He knows what's in every heart and He doesn't need you to research anything other than your own self. You are not responsible for other people and their actions.

                    Or am i supposed to consider them my Muslim brother?
                    Well that depends; if any muslim does something that is clearly Major Kufr, them you would need to reject their beliefs in a polite way and keep a certain distance from them in order to protect your own faith. However, you are never allowed to openly accuse or slander another human being, but you are to act with kindness towards everyone.

                    So as a new Muslim if an atheist come to me and say "Two women got locked up in Iran for 90 years for not wearing hijab this is your Sharia", how do i respond to that?
                    Well, firstly, there's a major misunderstanding in the way this statement is formulated. The hijab is fard (obligatory) upon women in Islam, but that doesn't mean that it's permissable to harm another human being just for the sake of upholding the law. A muslim woman has many rights, for example: she has the right to be treated with kindness and respect at all times. She also has the right to live a happy and fulfilling life where she can focus on getting close to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. This would not be possible for her if she was locked up for 90 years, and hence her rights is taken away from her in the above scenario. The hijab is a gift to women so that they may be recognized as muslims who are proud of their faith, and so that they won't be abused. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says in the Qur'an, "O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves part of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful" [Al-Ahzab 33:59]. If you force something on someone, chances are they will hate it; but if you encourage someone to something while carefully explaining the benefits of it, chances is they may love it. That's how the laws of Islam should be upheld.

                    Am i supposed to say "well Iran is not a Muslim country"?
                    I would rather say that Iran is a country where the majority of people claim to be muslim, but where many of the laws don't reflect the sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

                    Or am i supposed to contest his point of the basis of Iran being a Muslim country but doing a wrong interpretation of the Sharia?
                    It's the atheist who has a wrong interpretation of the Sharia.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aishah11 View Post
                      As-Salamu Alaikum,
                      Wa 'alaikumussalam
                      Originally posted by Aishah11 View Post
                      Alhamdulillah; the more you research these topics through authentic sources, the more you will learn to defend yourself and your faith from any opposition or verbal attack (no matter where it comes from). You will also gain a deep understanding for the fact that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and His beautiful religion is Perfect under all conditions, and that humans under all circumstances are not.

                      If you study the religion of Islam as a whole, you will find that it has five pillars. These pillars are as follows:
                      - Shahadah: “I bear witness that there is no deity (none truly to be worshipped) but, Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.”
                      - Salat: The obligatory five daily prayers
                      - Syam: The obligatory fasting in the month of Ramadan
                      - Zakat: The obligatory charity that is to be paid once a year
                      - Hajj: The pilgrimage to Mecka (if one is able)

                      I have never heard of any muslim who denies any of the above mentioned things, whether they call themselves sunni or shi'a. I have, however, met muslims who neglect these pillars themselves (even though they accept them as being obligatory) while at the same time, they slander other muslims for how they practise their faith. There are shia muslims who doesn't fast a day in Ramadan, but who slanders sunni muslims for "Hating 'Ali" (we don't). There are also sunni muslims who doesn't pray a single one of the daily prayers, but who slanders shi'a muslims for "worshipping stones" (they don't). Bottom line - anyone who doesn't pray the five daily prayers or fast the month of Ramadan has an issue with their own version of Islam.

                      Moreover, anyone who said the Shahadah is to be regarded as a muslim, unless they openly state or do something that is clearly Major Kufr (disbelief). Accusing an innocent muslim of Kufr is forbidden in Islam as Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says in the Qur'an, “O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers” [al-Hujuraat 49:11].

                      I personally disagree with the authenticity of shia books and evidences, and I don't agree with the principles of faith that is found in shia Islam- but that doesn't mean that I look down on those who do. They practise their faith in accordance to their beliefs and that doesn't harm me or disturb me in any way. If I were to accuse them of shirk or slander them, that's actually a sin that I would carry for acting cruel towards another human being.

                      So, to answer some of your questions in shaa Allah.

                      In order to become a Muslim is it required to harshly condemn the Shia in this way and call them kaffir?
                      No, I wouldn't advise you to follow the shi'a faith but I would argue that you need to treat all human beings with kindness and respect, and never to call anyone a kafir unless you are absolutely sure that they left the fold of Islam.

                      Is it required to research their beliefs and speak out against them?
                      No. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala cannot be harmed in any way. He is The Mighty, The Wise, The All-Seer, The All-Hearer and The All-Knower. He knows what's in every heart and He doesn't need you to research anything other than your own self. You are not responsible for other people and their actions.

                      Or am i supposed to consider them my Muslim brother?
                      Well that depends; if any muslim does something that is clearly Major Kufr, them you would need to reject their beliefs in a polite way and keep a certain distance from them in order to protect your own faith. However, you are never allowed to openly accuse or slander another human being, but you are to act with kindness towards everyone.

                      So as a new Muslim if an atheist come to me and say "Two women got locked up in Iran for 90 years for not wearing hijab this is your Sharia", how do i respond to that?
                      Well, firstly, there's a major misunderstanding in the way this statement is formulated. The hijab is fard (obligatory) upon women in Islam, but that doesn't mean that it's permissable to harm another human being just for the sake of upholding the law. A muslim woman has many rights, for example: she has the right to be treated with kindness and respect at all times. She also has the right to live a happy and fulfilling life where she can focus on getting close to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. This would not be possible for her if she was locked up for 90 years, and hence her rights is taken away from her in the above scenario. The hijab is a gift to women so that they may be recognized as muslims who are proud of their faith, and so that they won't be abused. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says in the Qur'an, "O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves part of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful" [Al-Ahzab 33:59]. If you force something on someone, chances are they will hate it; but if you encourage someone to something while carefully explaining the benefits of it, chances is they may love it. That's how the laws of Islam should be upheld.

                      Am i supposed to say "well Iran is not a Muslim country"?
                      I would rather say that Iran is a country where the majority of people claim to be muslim, but where many of the laws don't reflect the sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

                      Or am i supposed to contest his point of the basis of Iran being a Muslim country but doing a wrong interpretation of the Sharia?
                      It's the atheist who has a wrong interpretation of the Sharia.
                      Very well said, sis.
                      A very straight question.
                      How do one (a sunni, a shia, a quraniyyon, etc, etc…) justify one’s sect? Why not just be a muslim/muslimah?

                      Are the warnings below not good enough?

                      Prophet has nothing to do with this division.
                      1. [Shakir 6:159] Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.

                      Be not disunited
                      2. [Shakir 3:103] And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited, …

                      Be not of a mushrikeen
                      3. [Shakir 30:31] ….. and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists
                      [Shakir 30:32] Of those who divided their religion and became sects every sect rejoicing in what they had with them.

                      What would be the minimum act so as to be qualified to be said rejoicing in what we have with us?
                      Jazaaka Allahu khairan.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LiAnG View Post
                        Wa 'alaikumussalam
                        Very well said, sis.
                        A very straight question.
                        How do one (a sunni, a shia, a quraniyyon, etc, etc…) justify one’s sect? Why not just be a muslim/muslimah?

                        Are the warnings below not good enough?

                        Prophet has nothing to do with this division.
                        1. [Shakir 6:159] Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.

                        Be not disunited
                        2. [Shakir 3:103] And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited, …

                        Be not of a mushrikeen
                        3. [Shakir 30:31] ….. and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists
                        [Shakir 30:32] Of those who divided their religion and became sects every sect rejoicing in what they had with them.

                        What would be the minimum act so as to be qualified to be said rejoicing in what we have with us?
                        Jazaaka Allahu khairan.
                        As-Salamu Alaikum,

                        I will give you my humble opinion in shaa Allah, keeping in mind that there are many learned muslims who may give you a better answer.

                        A sect is per definition a subgroup of a religious belief system, usually an offshoot of a larger group; that means that there is (A) the original group and (B) the sects. The original group are those who would call themselves "just muslim", while the sects are those who would need some other form of justification.

                        The fact that sunni Islam is the original group is pretty easy to establish, because the original of anything is that which came first. Sunni is a word that's been retrieved from the word sunnah, meaning the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam. The sunnah is mainly the actions and words of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam; which means that it's followers was alive at the earliest possible time, when the Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam was alive and the Qur'an was still being revealed. The Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam didn't call himself a sunni muslim, there was no need for that during his lifetime because there were no sects, Sunni is a word that's been generated at later times in order to communicate to others that one follows the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam and nothing else. Being sunni basically means that one is "just muslim"; dividing into sects is not the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam, and so naturally we wouln't want to do that.

                        If you ask a shi'a muslim where their faith originates from, they will tell you that it all started when 'Ali Radeyallāhu ′Anhu died. 'Ali Radeyallāhu ′Anhu was the fourth khalifah, and khalifahs only existed after the Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam returned to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, which means that the shi'a sect was founded at a later time than that of the original group. That makes the shi'a the sect, and those who follow the sunnah of the Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam the original group. The shi'a may argue that their version of Islam is the truth (even though I personally disagree), but they can never argue that their version of Islam was the first.

                        The Quraniyyon rejects the Prophet Muhammads salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam sunnah altogether, which is just clearly wrong because you utter in the Shahadah the following, “I bear witness that there is no deity (none truly to be worshipped) but, Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.” You cannot even become a muslim whithout mentioning the name of the Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam, so how could you claim to follow Islam if you neglect his traditions? You also wouldn't be able to fulfill the five pillars of Islam as it's the Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam who showed us how they were to be practised. Without the sunnah you wouldn't know how to pray or how to pay zakat, because the details are not outlined in the Book of Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala.

                        I personally call myself muslim on a regular basis. If I want to distinguish myself from the sects sects then I would call myself sunni for discussion purpuses, mainly to let people know that i dont follow a sect or a subgroup at all.

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