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  • Maleeha
    started a topic What is Salafism???

    What is Salafism???

    Salaams all.

    I recently attended an Islamic event where I met a fellow sister and we got chatting. It turned out she is a revert of 3 years and follows the Salafi way. Since I was not familiar with this particular sect of Islam, I didn't have much to offer her in terms of advice. Even then, I usually keep that to the learned scholars as I am not equipped to be dishing out advice. When I told her I follow the Tabliq way, she became very hostile towards me and starting calling me a hypocrite. Not very nice. I excused myself and started walking in the opposite direction.

    I went online to read up about Salafism and what I found was not very comforting. I know you should never trust anything you read on the internet because it could come from various corrupt sources. So I want to know from someone who is familiar with this new sect of Islam, what is it about and why is it spreading so fast? Should we be concerned as Muslims about this Salafi movement?

    Shukran.

  • Grandad
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

    well yes they have strayed if they arent following the way the sahaba lived their lives according to what the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلام taught them

    they are still muslim unless they commit an act of major kufr that takes them out of the fold of islam and or they commit shirk

    however they may be going astray but still be muslim by having beliefs or doing certain things that the sahaba did not believe or do but arent major kufr and or shirk
    Thank you. I understand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Originally posted by Grandad View Post

    For an accusation as serious as this (that such people are no longer to be regarded as Muslims - if indeed, this is what you are saying) proofs are required, don't you think?

    I apologise if this is not what you are saying.
    well yes they have strayed if they arent following the way the sahaba lived their lives according to what the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلام taught them

    they are still muslim unless they commit an act of major kufr that takes them out of the fold of islam and or they commit shirk

    however they may be going astray but still be muslim by having beliefs or doing certain things that the sahaba did not believe or do but arent major kufr and or shirk

    Leave a comment:


  • Grandad
    replied
    Originally posted by Janna90 View Post

    Wha accusation? I think you need to calm down your jumping to conclusions too fast. I said they strayed, I didn’t say there no longer Muslim. You can still be Muslim but sinning. There’s a difference.

    I accept your your apology but next time don’t be too quick to attack.
    It seems we have a misunderstanding.

    I wrote: '‘Following the way of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has always been the practise of the Muslims. The mistake is thinking that only one group now do so.'’

    You replied: ‘'We can'’t say some groups haven’t strayed away from that because they have.'’

    I took the words ‘'strayed away from'’ to mean ‘'to deviate from'’; '‘to leave that which is true for that which is false’.'

    ‘'In the name of Allâh, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy! Praise belongs to Allâh, Lord of the Worlds, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy, Master of the Day of Judgement. It is You we worship; it is You we ask for help. Guide us to the straight path: the path of those You have blessed, those who incur no anger and who have not gone astray.'’ (Al-Fatiha)

    I agree, being sinful does not, of itself, take one away from Islam. I guess we both need to be careful about the words we use.
    Last edited by Grandad; 12-02-19, 06:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janna90
    replied
    Originally posted by Grandad View Post

    For an accusation as serious as this (that such people are no longer to be regarded as Muslims - if indeed, this is what you are saying) proofs are required, don't you think?

    I apologise if this is not what you are saying.
    Wha accusation? I think you need to calm down your jumping to conclusions too fast. I said they strayed, I didn’t say there no longer Muslim. You can still be Muslim but sinning. There’s a difference.

    I accept your your apology but next time don’t be too quick to attack.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grandad
    replied
    Originally posted by Janna90 View Post

    Right, well we can’t say some groups haven’t strayed away from that because they have.
    For an accusation as serious as this (that such people are no longer to be regarded as Muslims - if indeed, this is what you are saying) proofs are required, don't you think?

    I apologise if this is not what you are saying.
    Last edited by Grandad; 12-02-19, 04:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janna90
    replied
    Originally posted by Grandad View Post

    Following the way of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has always been the practise of the Muslims. The mistake is thinking that only one group now do so.
    Right, well we can’t say some groups haven’t strayed away from that because they have.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grandad
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

    just stop
    Stop what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Grandad
    replied
    Originally posted by Janna90 View Post

    Following the way of the prophet has become a trend now?
    Following the way of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has always been the practise of the Muslims. The mistake is thinking that only one group now do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janna90
    replied
    Originally posted by Grandad View Post
    '

    As-Salâmu ‘alaykum, sister.

    The following is taken from a monograph entitled: ‘Wahhabism, Salafism and Islamism: Who Is The Enemy?’, written by Doctor Ahmad Moussalli; Professor of Political Science and Islamic Studies at the American University of Beirut. He writes:

    ‘'Salafism started as a trend that finds in the concept of al-salaf al-salih (the pious predecessors) the instrument to either understand the true interpretation and practice of Islam or to reject the cumulative experience of the Muslim community.

    ‘'All formations of salafism are based on reforming individuals and communities on the basis of returning to the pure Islam of the Qur’an and prophetic sunna as understood and practiced by al-salaf al-salih. Like the Wahhabis, other salafists believe that the trajectory of the Islamic communities after the pious salaf moved rather into diverse forms of polytheism (shirk), reprehensible innovation (bid‘a), and superstition (khurafa). Thus, neglecting ‘the purist’ interpretation of Islam, that of al-salaf al-salih, is tantamount to neglecting Islam itself. Consequently, all religious, intellectual, social, doctrinal, political conflicts have resulted from the failure to follow the method of al-salaf al-salih.

    ‘'If this is the case then, only the salafists are true Muslims; for they believe that only the salafist method is the method of Ahl al-Hadith/Sunna, and consequently belong to the ‘saved’ sect or al-firqa al-najiya. The Salafist da‘wa in its original –- but not the original Wahhabi-form –- centres on peaceful guidance away from corruptions that have affected pure religious beliefs and practices. It focuses on teaching ‘true’ Islam, by referring to the comprehensive principles of creed in order to answer all problems facing the community; to purify Muslim beliefs and practices from the infiltration of the elements of reprehensible innovations (bid‘a) and unbelief (kufr), and consider debating such beliefs and practices as fallacious; to revive the practices of the Prophet Muhammad and disseminate the message of solidarity and unity of the community on the basis of its loyalty to the Prophet Muhammad, al-wala’, and hostility towards heresy and unbelief, al-bara’.

    ‘'The doctrine of al-wala’ wa al-bara’ has provided the basis for the salafists’ choice to live in a small tight-knit community (jama‘a). They are convinced that the community system will protect them from bida‘ and reinforce their unity in the face of Muslim enemies. By living in their own societies, they believe that this is the effective way to avoid any resemblance to infidels. For the same reason, they also reject all entertaining distractions: music, theatre and places of pleasure and entertainment such as cafés, discotheques, and dance clubs. Perfume, the cinema, television and photographs are considered part of infidel cultures. The salafists emphasize that the roots of their concern with the community system lies more in a willingness to withdraw from corrupting innovations and to live in accordance with the example of al-salaf al-salih, rather than in a revolutionary activism to create a totally Islamic society.

    ‘'The doctrine of al-wala’ wa al-bara’ developed by the salafists is reminiscent of the thoughts expressed by Ahmad Ibn Taymiyya. He developed the idea that the dissimilarity between believers and unbelievers must be total. In his book entitled Iqtida’ al-Sirat al-Mustaqim, he explained in detail all aspects of differences that should be drawn by Muslims in their encounters with non-Muslims. According to him, Muslims, for instance, should speak Arabic in preference to any other language and should cut their hair and leave beards to grow long in a manner different from that of Jews and Christians. The followers of these two religions (Ahl al-Kitab) were seen by Ibn Taymiyya as active agents of unbelief who posed a threat to Islam.

    'On the basis of the doctrine of al-wala’ wa al-bara’, firm distinctions are drawn between the members of the community and outsiders. The members of this community associate the outside people with shirk and bid‘a whose lives are considered to be removed from true tawhid. The medieval heritage of Ibn Taymiyya’s ideology, which developed in a period of high tension between Muslims and Christians, has added another dimension. The purity of this community is believed to guarantee the immunity of its members from the influences of infidels, to be identified with Jews and Christians.’'

    I hope this serves as a 'starter' towards your understanding of 'salafism'.
    Following the way of the prophet has become a trend now?

    Leave a comment:


  • Maleeha
    replied
    Originally posted by Umm Hamasa View Post
    Assalamu Alaikum my dear sister,
    In the Quran, Allah says:
    "Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with Allah, then He will inform them of everything they had done." [6:159]
    "You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship." [30:31]
    "Do not fall in idol worship, like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have." [30:32]
    "Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts." [42:14]
    "And hold firmly, all together, by the rope which God (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude God's favour on you; for you were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, you became brothers; and you were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does God make His verses clear to you so that you may be guided" [3:103]
    Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to God, works righteousness, and says, "I am of those who submit i.e. Muslims (Arabic: Muslimeen)?" [41:33]
    We should not say we are Salafi, considering a large amount of Salafi's are nowhere near the conduct of the salaaf as you have mentioned with your experience with the sister. It is presumptous for us to say we are anything like the salaaf because they were the best of generations. The majority of the other sects in Islam will say they follow the way of ahlus sunnah wal jammah and the early 3 generations without calling themselves salafi... So it seems that everyone likes to think they follow the way of the salaaf and that they are right. The reason there is so much fuss about sects is because there is a hadith that says, "My ummah will be divided into 73 sects, all will be in the hellfire except one." So due to this hadith, everyone has completely overlooked the following ayaah's in the Qur'an and discarded of Allah's stern warning not to break into sects, audhubillah.
    Salafi's consider themselves to be ghair muqallid because they take everything "directly from quran and sunnah" and therefore consider themselves to be self-taught and not following any imams so they generally tend to look down upon other groups that follow imams instead of "directly following Quran and Sunnah." But what a large percentage of salafi's fail to realize is that since the majority of them do not understand arabic, they are also not directly following the Quran and sunnah, rather they are following a translation from an imam or scholar. Also the major salafi scholars adhered to a school of thought which just gets more confusing from there. So they are also ghair muqallid which means there really is no muqallid and ghair muqallid in the first place.
    I think the reason the sister had a knee-jerk reaction to you identifying with tablighis is because the amount of 40 days of travel that the tablighi's do is nowhere directly stated in Qur'an and Sunnah so they consider it ahlul bid'ah without acknowledging the amount of goodness this group has contributed to the collective Ummah by for example creating madrasas (darul uloom schools) and spreading the deen with much fervor rapidly across the globe. But since the 40 days of travel are not explicitly stated, they are focused on division and refutations, even if they have 1000 things in common with another group, they will rip the other group apart for the 1 thing they do differently resulting in more chaos.
    Although we should reject bidah staunchly, creating a whole group to differentiate from those who follow bidah is counterintuitve because you end up following a bidah by creating a sect that was nowhere found during the Prophet alaihi salatu wa salaam's time, though there may have been minor differences in beliefs. Finding the fault in others is not a part of Islam and Allah warned against dividing the Muslims based on the allegorical meaning of the Quran which they do as well due to their literal interpretation of Allah having hands, feet, shin, etc. whereas the other groups will not even think about mentioning things like this. Where is Allah? Is he everywhere or is he above the arsh? These allegorical meanings are confusing and they spend heaps amount of time with these issues completely abandoning good manners and character along the way which is number one in Islam. I would advise you not to get into these issues and leave it to the scholars. There will be salafi's that enter heaven, there will be salafi's that enter hell, there will be deobandi's that enter heaven, there will be deobandi's that enter hell. Not all people of one group commit shirk of kufr, but you will find at least one scholar writing a book in each group that contain stories of shirk and kufr.... Then they attribute shirk and kufr to the whole sect, without acknowledging that a lot of these times they are just narrating the stories of Banu Israel which the Prophet alaihi salatu wa salaam actually encouraged us to do (stories meaning fiction, NOT true)
    Pray your five daily salaah, give charity, fast, have good conduct with both muslims and non-muslims, go to hajj if you are financially able, dress modestly and abstain from what Allah has prohibited. And if they ask you what group you follow, say: I am a follower of tawheed, a Muslim, and i strive to follow the sunnah, the way of the salaaf us saliheen and ahlul bayt. And I am not amongst those who create divisiveness in the Ummah.
    (One thing I will mention is the Salafi's are very passionate, usually more passionate than other groups and therefore they tend to have the most influential scholars due to their delivery in their lectures and books. The majority of scholars I listen to are salafis for this reason and I don't have a problem with the group as long as they don't start accusing everyone else of shirk and kufr and doing takfir on everyone, which the Prophet warned against doing and which was the way of the khawarij (another deviant sect similiar to IS). Hope this helped and wasn't too confusing.)
    Salaams Sister.
    Shukran for the your response. It made for a very interesting read.
    Barakallah Feekum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoic Believer
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

    just stop
    What did he say that's wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • Umm Hamasa
    replied
    Originally posted by Maleeha View Post
    Salaams all.

    I recently attended an Islamic event where I met a fellow sister and we got chatting. It turned out she is a revert of 3 years and follows the Salafi way. Since I was not familiar with this particular sect of Islam, I didn't have much to offer her in terms of advice. Even then, I usually keep that to the learned scholars as I am not equipped to be dishing out advice. When I told her I follow the Tabliq way, she became very hostile towards me and starting calling me a hypocrite. Not very nice. I excused myself and started walking in the opposite direction.

    I went online to read up about Salafism and what I found was not very comforting. I know you should never trust anything you read on the internet because it could come from various corrupt sources. So I want to know from someone who is familiar with this new sect of Islam, what is it about and why is it spreading so fast? Should we be concerned as Muslims about this Salafi movement?

    Shukran.
    Assalamu Alaikum my dear sister,

    In the Quran, Allah says:

    "Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with Allah, then He will inform them of everything they had done." [6:159]

    "You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship." [30:31]
    "Do not fall in idol worship, like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have." [30:32]

    "Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts." [42:14]

    "And hold firmly, all together, by the rope which God (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude God's favour on you; for you were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, you became brothers; and you were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does God make His verses clear to you so that you may be guided" [3:103]

    Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to God, works righteousness, and says, "I am of those who submit i.e. Muslims (Arabic: Muslimeen)?" [41:33]


    We should not say we are Salafi, considering a large amount of Salafi's are nowhere near the conduct of the salaaf as you have mentioned with your experience with the sister. It is presumptous for us to say we are anything like the salaaf because they were the best of generations. The majority of the other sects in Islam will say they follow the way of ahlus sunnah wal jammah and the early 3 generations without calling themselves salafi... So it seems that everyone likes to think they follow the way of the salaaf and that they are right. The reason there is so much fuss about sects is because there is a hadith that says, "My ummah will be divided into 73 sects, all will be in the hellfire except one." So due to this hadith, everyone has completely overlooked the following ayaah's in the Qur'an and discarded of Allah's stern warning not to break into sects, audhubillah.

    Salafi's consider themselves to be ghair muqallid because they take everything "directly from quran and sunnah" and therefore consider themselves to be self-taught and not following any imams so they generally tend to look down upon other groups that follow imams instead of "directly following Quran and Sunnah." But what a large percentage of salafi's fail to realize is that since the majority of them do not understand arabic, they are also not directly following the Quran and sunnah, rather they are following a translation from an imam or scholar. Also the major salafi scholars adhered to a school of thought which just gets more confusing from there. So they are also ghair muqallid which means there really is no muqallid and ghair muqallid in the first place.

    I think the reason the sister had a knee-jerk reaction to you identifying with tablighis is because the amount of 40 days of travel that the tablighi's do is nowhere directly stated in Qur'an and Sunnah so they consider it ahlul bid'ah without acknowledging the amount of goodness this group has contributed to the collective Ummah by for example creating madrasas (darul uloom schools) and spreading the deen with much fervor rapidly across the globe. But since the 40 days of travel are not explicitly stated, they are focused on division and refutations, even if they have 1000 things in common with another group, they will rip the other group apart for the 1 thing they do differently resulting in more chaos.

    Although we should reject bidah staunchly, creating a whole group to differentiate from those who follow bidah is counterintuitve because you end up following a bidah by creating a sect that was nowhere found during the Prophet alaihi salatu wa salaam's time, though there may have been minor differences in beliefs. Finding the fault in others is not a part of Islam and Allah warned against dividing the Muslims based on the allegorical meaning of the Quran which they do as well due to their literal interpretation of Allah having hands, feet, shin, etc. whereas the other groups will not even think about mentioning things like this. Where is Allah? Is he everywhere or is he above the arsh? These allegorical meanings are confusing and they spend heaps amount of time with these issues completely abandoning good manners and character along the way which is number one in Islam. I would advise you not to get into these issues and leave it to the scholars. There will be salafi's that enter heaven, there will be salafi's that enter hell, there will be deobandi's that enter heaven, there will be deobandi's that enter hell. Not all people of one group commit shirk of kufr, but you will find at least one scholar writing a book in each group that contain stories of shirk and kufr.... Then they attribute shirk and kufr to the whole sect, without acknowledging that a lot of these times they are just narrating the stories of Banu Israel which the Prophet alaihi salatu wa salaam actually encouraged us to do (stories meaning fiction, NOT true)

    Pray your five daily salaah, give charity, fast, have good conduct with both muslims and non-muslims, go to hajj if you are financially able, dress modestly and abstain from what Allah has prohibited. And if they ask you what group you follow, say: I am a follower of tawheed, a Muslim, and i strive to follow the sunnah, the way of the salaaf us saliheen and ahlul bayt. And I am not amongst those who create divisiveness in the Ummah.

    (One thing I will mention is the Salafi's are very passionate, usually more passionate than other groups and therefore they tend to have the most influential scholars due to their delivery in their lectures and books. The majority of scholars I listen to are salafis for this reason and I don't have a problem with the group as long as they don't start accusing everyone else of shirk and kufr and doing takfir on everyone, which the Prophet warned against doing and which was the way of the khawarij (another deviant sect similiar to IS). Hope this helped and wasn't too confusing.)

    ​​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • notEVOLVED
    replied
    A common characteristic is that they don't follow a single madhhab.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Originally posted by Grandad View Post
    '

    As-Salâmu ‘alaykum, sister.

    The following is taken from a monograph entitled: ‘Wahhabism, Salafism and Islamism: Who Is The Enemy?’, written by Doctor Ahmad Moussalli; Professor of Political Science and Islamic Studies at the American University of Beirut. He writes:

    ‘'Salafism started as a trend that finds in the concept of al-salaf al-salih (the pious predecessors) the instrument to either understand the true interpretation and practice of Islam or to reject the cumulative experience of the Muslim community.

    ‘'All formations of salafism are based on reforming individuals and communities on the basis of returning to the pure Islam of the Qur’an and prophetic sunna as understood and practiced by al-salaf al-salih. Like the Wahhabis, other salafists believe that the trajectory of the Islamic communities after the pious salaf moved rather into diverse forms of polytheism (shirk), reprehensible innovation (bid‘a), and superstition (khurafa). Thus, neglecting ‘the purist’ interpretation of Islam, that of al-salaf al-salih, is tantamount to neglecting Islam itself. Consequently, all religious, intellectual, social, doctrinal, political conflicts have resulted from the failure to follow the method of al-salaf al-salih.

    ‘'If this is the case then, only the salafists are true Muslims; for they believe that only the salafist method is the method of Ahl al-Hadith/Sunna, and consequently belong to the ‘saved’ sect or al-firqa al-najiya. The Salafist da‘wa in its original –- but not the original Wahhabi-form –- centres on peaceful guidance away from corruptions that have affected pure religious beliefs and practices. It focuses on teaching ‘true’ Islam, by referring to the comprehensive principles of creed in order to answer all problems facing the community; to purify Muslim beliefs and practices from the infiltration of the elements of reprehensible innovations (bid‘a) and unbelief (kufr), and consider debating such beliefs and practices as fallacious; to revive the practices of the Prophet Muhammad and disseminate the message of solidarity and unity of the community on the basis of its loyalty to the Prophet Muhammad, al-wala’, and hostility towards heresy and unbelief, al-bara’.

    ‘'The doctrine of al-wala’ wa al-bara’ has provided the basis for the salafists’ choice to live in a small tight-knit community (jama‘a). They are convinced that the community system will protect them from bida‘ and reinforce their unity in the face of Muslim enemies. By living in their own societies, they believe that this is the effective way to avoid any resemblance to infidels. For the same reason, they also reject all entertaining distractions: music, theatre and places of pleasure and entertainment such as cafés, discotheques, and dance clubs. Perfume, the cinema, television and photographs are considered part of infidel cultures. The salafists emphasize that the roots of their concern with the community system lies more in a willingness to withdraw from corrupting innovations and to live in accordance with the example of al-salaf al-salih, rather than in a revolutionary activism to create a totally Islamic society.

    ‘'The doctrine of al-wala’ wa al-bara’ developed by the salafists is reminiscent of the thoughts expressed by Ahmad Ibn Taymiyya. He developed the idea that the dissimilarity between believers and unbelievers must be total. In his book entitled Iqtida’ al-Sirat al-Mustaqim, he explained in detail all aspects of differences that should be drawn by Muslims in their encounters with non-Muslims. According to him, Muslims, for instance, should speak Arabic in preference to any other language and should cut their hair and leave beards to grow long in a manner different from that of Jews and Christians. The followers of these two religions (Ahl al-Kitab) were seen by Ibn Taymiyya as active agents of unbelief who posed a threat to Islam.

    'On the basis of the doctrine of al-wala’ wa al-bara’, firm distinctions are drawn between the members of the community and outsiders. The members of this community associate the outside people with shirk and bid‘a whose lives are considered to be removed from true tawhid. The medieval heritage of Ibn Taymiyya’s ideology, which developed in a period of high tension between Muslims and Christians, has added another dimension. The purity of this community is believed to guarantee the immunity of its members from the influences of infidels, to be identified with Jews and Christians.’'

    I hope this serves as a 'starter' towards your understanding of 'salafism'.
    just stop

    Leave a comment:

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