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Atheist moving to muslim country: can atheists and muslims live together in peace?

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  • Atheist moving to muslim country: can atheists and muslims live together in peace?

    Hi everybody.

    I'm planning to migrate to a muslim contry, but I'm an atheist myself. So I don't believe in any God and I made this decision after more then 10 years of thinking about it, so it's not like a didn't ever go to Church or been raised in atheistic family. No. Actually, my parents believes in God (they are christians).

    The question is: how would muslims behave to people who not believe in God? Can they accept it and is it possible that muslim will ever be a friend to atheist?

    What should I know before migrating to muslim country?

    The main question through - about meaning of Jihad. I've read some fragments of Quran about Jihad and to me it's sounds that every true muslim must defend his faith and he should not be afraid to die for it and kill the non-believers. And as far as I got it, it's even a sin if he would prefer a peaceful life instead of participate in Jihad.
    So, simply speaking, if you are a muslim - will you wish and try to kill another man, who are not believe in Allah? I mean, if this non-believer man would never somehow hurt you or your country or religion, he just makes his living peacefully, but not belong to any religion. Is it a reason for a true muslim to kill him in the name of the God?

    P. S.: in any way I do not want to hurt or abuse someone. I'm not a troll or something like that. I'm just on the way to change my life and country where I live. So my only wish - is to understand muslims in their faith and to learn how to peacefully live with them.
    I'd really be glad to hear all this answers from the "first hands", from real people, but not from Wikipedia or some info-articles.

    Thank you in advance and I wish peace to you and your family without regarding to your faith, race, age, whether you male/female etc.
    I'll appreciate any answer.
    Last edited by sociohacker; 06-12-18, 02:54 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by sociohacker View Post
    Hi everybody.

    I'm planning to migrate to a muslim contry, but I'm an atheist myself. So I don't believe in any God and I made this decision after more then 10 years of thinking about it, so it's not like a didn't ever go to Church or been raised in atheistic family. No. Actually, my parents believes in God (they are christians).

    The question is: how would muslims behave to people who not believe in God? Can they accept it and is it possible that muslim will ever be a friend to atheist?

    What should I know before migrating to muslim country?

    The main question through - about meaning of Jihad. I've read some fragments of Quran about Jihad and to me it's sounds that every true muslim must defend his faith and he should not be afraid to die for it and kill the non-believers. And as far as I got it, it's even a sin if he would prefer a peaceful life instead of participate in Jihad.
    So, simply speaking, if you are a muslim - will you wish and try to kill another man, who are not believe in Allah? I mean, if this non-believer man would never somehow hurt you or your country or religion, he just makes his living peacefully, but not belong to any religion. Is it a reason for a true muslim to kill him in the name of the God?

    P. S.: in any way I do not want to hurt or abuse someone. I'm not a troll or something like that. I'm just on the way to change my life and country where I live. So my only wish - is to understand muslims in their faith and to learn how to peacefully live with them.
    I'd really be glad to hear all this answers from the "first hands", from real people, but not from Wikipedia or some info-articles.

    Thank you in advance and I wish peace to you and your family without regarding to your faith, race, age, whether you male/female etc.
    I'll appreciate any answer.
    May I ask what country it is you're looking to move to?

    I highly doubt you will be killed if you're not causing any trouble.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why would an atheist want to go live in a Muslim land where religion it taken more seriously than he is use to living in the West. I too would like to know his purpose. The important things to stay away from talking about is disparaging Islam, Allah, the Prophet s.a.a.w. and not creating fitnah with your atheist nonsense and causing doubts to the Muslims and his beliefs.
      The Prophet s.a.a.w warned when he said: "You will surely follow the ways of those who came before you, in exactly the same fashion, to the point were they to enter the hole of a lizard, you too would enter it." It was asked of him, "O Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w., do you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else?" (Bukhari and Muslim)

      Comment


      • #4
        Roughly 1 in 5 of the world's population is Muslim so that means several countries. How well you'd be received depends on where you go as each country varies and has different cultural norms and some regions are more welcoming towards non Muslims from other countries than others. The fact that you're an atheist wont be a problem and by n large, people will be indifferent about it. As for Jihad, yes it is mentioned in the Quran but it is often misquoted or taken out of context. For example the line from Quran that translates as "kill them wherever you find them" was an order given to Muslims at the time of the Prophet (saw) just as their army was entering a battlefield against an army of non Muslims from a community that had persecuted them. It is not a general rule that Muslims have to go round killing non Muslims wherever they find them. That is why for many centuries there has been a thriving Coptic Christian community in Egypt and when Europe was persecuting and exiling the Jews and killing them off during the Spanish inquisition, the Jews were welcomed into North Africa which was under Islamic rule and their descendants still live in Tunisia and Morocco to this day.

        Islam isn't pacifism and anyone who tells you "Islam means peace" is lying. We do not believe in turning the other cheek, that's a Christian notion and besides, just look at the history of Christianity, it was about forcing people to convert or die whether it was the Spanish Inquisition or whether it was the European Christians who committed genocide against natives in the Americas or British Christians who committed genocide in Australia against the Aborigines and in the 20th century made concentration camps that killed a chunk of the Kenyan population as well as Churchill deliberately causing the man made famine in India by stealing their food and deliberately letting millions of them starve to death. So you don't have to scratch far beneath the surface to find that religions and nations and governments that claim to be acting on the basis of being "peaceful" are actually hypocrites that use such terminology to fool people into thinking they have noble intentions. Islam doesn't allow such hypocrisy.

        The most important thing to bear in mind though is that you never say anything that comes across as insulting or disparaging against Islam or against the Prophet Muhammad (saw) even casually or as a joke. Insults to Islam are taken seriously so that's a definite no no regardless of where you go.
        The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

          May I ask what country it is you're looking to move to?

          I highly doubt you will be killed if you're not causing any trouble.
          It's Egypt. Maybe it's not such religious country as United Arab Emirates, but still it seems there were some problems with radical fanatic regilious groups of people who set a few teracts (that not only killed a tourists but a local inhabitants as well).

          So therefore different thoughts comes to mind.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sociohacker View Post

            It's Egypt. Maybe it's not such religious country as United Arab Emirates, but still it seems there were some problems with radical fanatic regilious groups of people who set a few teracts (that not only killed a tourists but a local inhabitants as well).

            So therefore different thoughts comes to mind.
            I take it you're alright with the government there?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Musbah View Post
              Why would an atheist want to go live in a Muslim land where religion it taken more seriously than he is use to living in the West. I too would like to know his purpose. The important things to stay away from talking about is disparaging Islam, Allah, the Prophet s.a.a.w. and not creating fitnah with your atheist nonsense and causing doubts to the Muslims and his beliefs.
              I'm not from the West, I'm from Ukraine, actually.
              Why I decided to move? Well, there is number of reasons:
              - I tired from Ukraine and ukrainian people; the 90% of them are angry, ignorant and poor people. I do not want to waste my whole life arguing with them or trying to ignore them.
              - I like more warm climate then it is in Ukraine. So Egypt is pretty nice in this aspect.
              - the rent of appartments costs in Ukraine the same as in Egypt. Even less in winter season. So there is nothing to lose in financial aspect.
              - I want to "burn the bridges" - to change the enviroment and so to become more efficient in my work (I work online).

              There were main reasons.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by neelu View Post
                As for Jihad, yes it is mentioned in the Quran but it is often misquoted or taken out of context. For example the line from Quran that translates as "kill them wherever you find them" was an order given to Muslims at the time of the Prophet (saw) just as their army was entering a battlefield against an army of non Muslims from a community that had persecuted them. It is not a general rule that Muslims have to go round killing non Muslims wherever they find them.

                Islam isn't pacifism and anyone who tells you "Islam means peace" is lying.
                Thanks for detailed answer.
                Still, I don't fully get it: Islam isn't all about peace, but you say that Muslims do not instructed by the Quran to kill non-believers.
                So, it's sounds kinda opposed statements to me.
                Who is an atheist in the eyes of Muslim? Is he an equal human being, does he have equal rights as have Muslim?
                About Christianity - probably you are right and there also was religion wars and killings in the name of the God.
                Actually, this meaningless religious agression is one of the reason of my atheism.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                  I take it you're alright with the government there?
                  You mean Egypt government or Ukrainian?
                  I thing I'm alright with both. I do not have any convictions, never had problems with the law. Had some debts while was officially in the Enterpreneur status. But then I closed my Enterpreneur activity and paid out all the debts to government of Ukraine.

                  So now I clean and free - and this may be a good time to make that serious decision of migrate from Ukraine.

                  There is problem with the visa - as I am not a citizen of Egypt I need to formalize a visa from time to time. As far as I understand it, I need to leave Egypt every 3-4 month in order to just cross the border so I can get visa again. Thought about going with touristic excursion to Israel for 1 day and then come back. It's possible to make in Shanr El Sheikh, as far as I know.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sociohacker View Post

                    You mean Egypt government or Ukrainian?
                    I thing I'm alright with both...
                    I meant that you seemed to be concerned about radical fanatics which fits the Egyptian government. Are you alright when the government kills/tortures/imprisons/oppresses innocent people?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sociohacker View Post

                      Thanks for detailed answer.
                      Still, I don't fully get it: Islam isn't all about peace, but you say that Muslims do not instructed by the Quran to kill non-believers.
                      So, it's sounds kinda opposed statements to me.
                      Who is an atheist in the eyes of Muslim? Is he an equal human being, does he have equal rights as have Muslim?
                      About Christianity - probably you are right and there also was religion wars and killings in the name of the God.
                      Actually, this meaningless religious agression is one of the reason of my atheism.
                      islam does not allow randomly killing people, it allows fighting in war or if a criminal endangers your or anyone elses life, islam is a balance, in terms of equality a mulim and any other kaafir are not 100% equal just like a government official is not equal to a poor homeless citizen, however this does not mean muslims can mistreat non muslims living in their land without causing problems, if a muslim committs a crime against non muslim he is still punished etc. etc. further more id like to add, athiestic governments of recent history have also committed some of the worlds worst crimes ever all in the name of country and nationalism and communism or capitalism

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay let me put it another way. I live in England and in western countries, people tell two main stories about Islam. One is the story that Islam is a bloodthirsty and violent religion that was spread by the sword and preaches violent extremism and intolerance and it should be viewed as a threat to mankind and human rights everywhere etc. The other story is that Islam means peace and exemplifies peace and tolerance for all and a type of "turn the other cheek" attitude. Both of these stories are wrong. One story is spread by people who hate Muslims and think one person committing acts of terrorism is the fault of every Muslim regardless of whether they speak out against such acts or not. The other story is spread as a reactionary measure by people who try to overcompensate.

                        Islam is a comprehensive belief system, meaning it sets out guidance and rules that govern all aspects of a Muslim's life. It sets out rules for peace treaties and making amends between people of different tribes and beliefs and it sets out rules for war and how best to defend Muslim lands from attacks and so on. It teaches us to fight against injustice and not tolerate oppression.

                        I don't know that much about Egyptian laws, but I don't foresee you experiencing any legal problems in Egypt as a non Muslim or atheist, particularly in somewhere like Sharm el Sheikh cos' I hear a lot of non Muslims already live there so it's not the same as living amongst a local native community. As far as I know, I don't know of any legal problems relating to you being a non Muslim, if anything, your main issue would be that you're not an Egyptian citizen so you'd need to manage your visa situation, but you already know that. The law is that if you commit theft or murder or other crimes, then you'd be punished whether you are Muslim or non Muslim. Muslims aren't treated leniently by the law there if anything there's a lot of oppression and injustice going on like the fact that the elected head of state was arrested and jailed in a military coup and thousands of people who protested it were locked up, many were killed and some are still locked up to this day even though that protest was years ago.

                        As I said in my previous post though, as a non Muslim, the one thing you really have to be mindful of is that most Muslims do not tolerate Islam or the Prophet Muhammad (saw) being insulted. If you avoid that sort of thing, you should be okay. Also are you male or female? Generally the culture over there is such that it's not a good idea for a lone woman to live over there as in some cities, there is a problem of sexual harassment and people leave you alone if they see that you have a husband or brother/father living with you. Other than that, it's worth finding out what the cultural norms are in the town where you will live. One of my facebook friends is a non Muslim who has been living and working in Egypt for years- I could ask him about this if you like.

                        Originally posted by sociohacker View Post

                        Thanks for detailed answer.
                        Still, I don't fully get it: Islam isn't all about peace, but you say that Muslims do not instructed by the Quran to kill non-believers.
                        So, it's sounds kinda opposed statements to me.
                        Who is an atheist in the eyes of Muslim? Is he an equal human being, does he have equal rights as have Muslim?
                        About Christianity - probably you are right and there also was religion wars and killings in the name of the God.
                        Actually, this meaningless religious agression is one of the reason of my atheism.
                        Muslims are not instructed to kill non believers- that is the general rule. More specifically, if a non Muslim army gathers to fight against Muslims, then the Muslim army would be instructed to kill that army. Also if a non Muslim (or Muslim) commits a crime that warrants capital punishment such as murder, then the Islamic laws state that the murderer can be killed if the judge gives a verdict to execute and the victim's family do not forgive him or plead for leniency. Other than that, Prophet Muhammad (saw) forbids the killing or harming of non Muslims living in Muslim lands as he said in a hadith "he who harms the dhimmi (non Muslim living in Islamic lands) harms me". Those are the only two exceptions in which killing non Muslims would be permitted under Islamic law, but bear in mind, Islamic law is not implemented anywhere in the world- it isn't implemented in Egypt or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else.

                        The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is no capital punishment for the Muslim who kills a disbeliever. Just blood money paid to the victims family if I recall correctly from how the Sahaba dealt with it.

                          Correction there is capital punishment for the Muslim but there are exceptions.
                          Last edited by Musbah; 12-12-18, 10:53 AM. Reason: Correction.
                          The Prophet s.a.a.w warned when he said: "You will surely follow the ways of those who came before you, in exactly the same fashion, to the point were they to enter the hole of a lizard, you too would enter it." It was asked of him, "O Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w., do you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else?" (Bukhari and Muslim)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                            I meant that you seemed to be concerned about radical fanatics which fits the Egyptian government. Are you alright when the government kills/tortures/imprisons/oppresses innocent people?
                            I don't know anything about such an actions of Egyption government. Sure it's not alright at all to use legal power for illegal actions of any kind.
                            But those situations you've mentioned has also sometimes taken place in Ukraine and, I think, maybe even in all countries on one level or another.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sociohacker View Post

                              I don't know anything about such an actions of Egyption government. Sure it's not alright at all to use legal power for illegal actions of any kind.
                              But those situations you've mentioned has also sometimes taken place in Ukraine and, I think, maybe even in all countries on one level or another.
                              It's strange that you're worried about random groups but haven't researched the government.

                              Comment

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