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  • Re: New Muslim support thread

    I've decided to let go of my car Inshallah. If the insurance is unislamic then it's giving me a knot in my stomach to have insurance, knowing this.

    I'm saying I've made that decision because you can hold me to account by asking me as I know my flesh will want to hang onto it as long as possible, if you know what I mean.

    Give me two weeks then ask me please because I'm afraid I'll procrastinate. We have so many students here, it should be easy to sell it on cheap.
    I have no excuse <(repeat to me if necessary)

    Jazakallah khair

    Comment


    • Re: New Muslim support thread

      Originally posted by Rifqah View Post
      I've decided to let go of my car Inshallah. If the insurance is unislamic then it's giving me a knot in my stomach to have insurance, knowing this.

      I'm saying I've made that decision because you can hold me to account by asking me as I know my flesh will want to hang onto it as long as possible, if you know what I mean.

      Give me two weeks then ask me please because I'm afraid I'll procrastinate. We have so many students here, it should be easy to sell it on cheap.
      I have no excuse <(repeat to me if necessary)

      Jazakallah khair
      Wait what?

      Car insurance is haram? Where I am from you are forced to buy it. All the imams and shaykhs drive.

      Explain please.

      Comment


      • Re: New Muslim support thread

        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
        Wait what?

        Car insurance is haram? Where I am from you are forced to buy it. All the imams and shaykhs drive.

        Explain please.
        I was told it is haram... [MENTION=82080]nonameakhi[/MENTION]

        A contract between two or more parties is haram. All of the insurance contracts are more than two parties apparently.

        I'm not asking you to say where you live but you must not be in the UK.
        Last edited by Rifqah; 15-03-17, 07:53 PM.

        Comment


        • Re: New Muslim support thread

          Originally posted by Rifqah View Post
          I was told it is haram...

          A contract between two or more parties is haram. All of the insurance contracts are more than two parties apparently.

          I'm not asking you to say where you live but you must not be in the UK.
          I don't live there but before you do that , I would urge you to speak to someone knowledgeable in the UK regarding this. Do not grab any random fatwa online and just apply it. I mean , I wouldn't do such a thing.

          Ask someone knowledgeable and pious in your own country. There are many people here on this forum from the UK , are you telling me no one here drives? I find that hard to believe.

          Comment


          • Re: New Muslim support thread

            I feel a bit awkward, sorry. A brother from the UK mentioned it on another thread so... I've tagged him to explain, Inshallah.

            Comment


            • Re: New Muslim support thread

              Sr [MENTION=140612]Rifqah[/MENTION]

              https://islamqa.info/en/102969

              http://www.daruliftaa.com/node/5812
              ( Answers the question, though not specifically posed by questioner)
              LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH
              -------------------------------
              "And if you would count the graces of God, never could you be able to count them. Truly, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'aan 16:18)
              NOTE: Please kindly do NOT rep my posts. (Jazaa'akumullah).

              Comment


              • Re: New Muslim support thread

                What is the ruling on insuring a car? In case of an accident, the insurance company pays all repair fees instead of the other side.
                Published Date: 2007-12-05
                Praise be to Allaah.
                This question was put to Prof. Dr. Sa’ood ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Fanaysaan, the former dean of the Faculty of Sharee’ah in the Imam Muhammad ibn Sa’ood Islamic University, and he replied: Car insurance is not permissible because it insures one against accidents involving others, and this kind of insurance comes under the heading of commercial insurance which is forbidden in sharee’ah, because it is based on uncertainty and consuming people’s wealth unlawfully. The fatwas of the majority of scholars in fiqh councils and fatwa organizations forbid commercial insurance as it exists today in most countries of the world, if it is optional and no one is obliged to purchase it. But if it is compulsory insurance and one has no choice, then it is permissible to take out car insurance, for example, and the sin is on those who forced others to do it, based on the principle of “necessities which make forbidden things permissible”. But the person who is forced to take out car insurance, for example, should not take more than he paid, if the company compensates him for harm suffered, based on the principle of “necessity should be properly estimated (without exaggeration)”. The Muslim should strive for the sake of his religious commitment and honour, and keep away from haraam things or that which may be haraam, as mentioned in the hadeeth narrated by al-Nu’maan ibn Basheer: “That which is halaal is clear and that which is haraam is clear, and between them are doubtful matters which many people do not understand. Whoever guards against the doubtful matters will protect his religious commitment from shortcomings and will protect his honour from slander, but whoever falls into that which is doubtful will fall into that which is haraam …” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2051) and Muslim (1599). And Allaah knows best. End quote.

                Among the fatwas of scholars on the ruling on car insurance are the following:

                1 –Fatwa by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), when he was asked: Recently there has appeared that which is known as insurance, for wealth, business and cars, and there are now companies which deal with this and insure cars in the sense that if the car is in an accident they will pay for its value and if people are killed as a result of the accident they will pay the diyah (blood money). What is your view, seeing that they describe the insurance as a kind of cooperation? What is your opinion, may Allaah reward you with good?

                He replied: According to what you have mentioned, we think that this is haraam, i.e., for the car owner to pay money each month or each year to this company, and the company will pay up if an accident happens with this car. We think that this is haraam, and that it is a kind of gambling, which Allaah mentions alongside worshipping idols and drinking alcohol. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

                “O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols etc) and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful”

                [al-Maa'idah 5:90]

                The reason is that if this policy-holder pays five hundred riyals per month, then he will pay six thousand riyals per year, and perhaps he will have an accident in this year which incurs costs of twenty thousand riyals, or perhaps he will have no accident. If the former happens, i.e., an accident which incurs costs of twenty thousand riyals, then the policy holder who paid insurance will be a winner and the company will be a loser. But if the opposite happens and no accident takes place during the year, then the company will be the winner and the policy holder will be the loser. This is the essence of gambling, so it is haraam and it is not permissible for a person to get involved in it. Do not be deceived by what people do because Allaah, may He be blessed and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And if you obey most of those on the earth, they will mislead you far away from Allaah’s path” [al-An’aam 6:116]. My advice to my brothers is to boycott this insurance. As for their saying that it is a kind of cooperation, this is as false as it can be. Can anyone who does not get involved in this insurance benefit from this organization? No he cannot, rather it is insurance which involves gambling. End quote from Liqaa’aat al-Baab al-Maftooh (23/158).

                2 –Fatwa of Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan (may Allaah preserve him) when he was asked: What is the shar’i ruling on insurance where, for example, a person pays a sum of money every month or every year to the insurance company to insure his car, in case an accident happens in which his car is damaged, so that they will pay for the cost of repairs, which may or may not happen to the car during this year, but despite that he is obliged to pay this annual fee. Are such transactions permissible or not?

                He replied: It is not permissible to insure cars or anything else because it is a risk and it is consuming people’s wealth unlawfully. What people must do is put their trust in Allaah and if anything happens to a person by the will and decree of Allaah then he should be patient and pay the costs and penalties that result from that from his own wealth, not from the wealth of the insurance company. Allaah is the One Who will help him with these things and others, so he should not resort to insurance companies and what they involve of risk-taking and consuming people’s wealth unlawfully. Moreover, when car owners insure their cars and know that the company will pay the penalty, this makes them careless when driving and so they may cause harm to people and their property, unlike the case if they know that they will bear the costs and they will be responsible, in which case they will be more cautious.

                We said that insurance is consuming people’s wealth unlawfully, because the penalty that is paid by the company may be many times greater than the payments made by the policy holder, so he is consuming people’s wealth unlawfully. Or the policy holder may not be involved in any accident, in which case the company is consuming his wealth unlawfully. End quote from al-Muntaqa min Fataawa Shaykh al-Fawzaan.

                And Allaah knows best.

                Comment


                • Re: New Muslim support thread

                  Alhamdulillah and thank you for finding that link. I thought I'd post for those who don't like to click. For those who don't like to read looong - you can't have car insurance.

                  The part that some people have messaged me about is that you can have car insurance if it's difficult not to have a car but in the UK, (unless you use a car specifically for your own business and need to transport major products such as in the building trade etc.) there are plenty of trains, buses, bicycles and two legs if you're predominantly using a car to get to and from work every day. I can't seriously use 'necessity' as an excuse.

                  Inshallah I'll ask Abu Mus'ab what is considered necessity and what is considered an excuse.

                  Comment


                  • Re: New Muslim support thread

                    Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                    Shaytan is taunting me to leave Islam. Please help me brothers and sisters.
                    Allah عز وجل has called Jannah house of peace (Dar us Salaam) in Surah Yunus for a reason. It is the only place where trials & tribulations does not exist. The shaytaan has attempts to make our hearts full of sorrow & sadness to disturb our religious wellbeing. Hold on fast as we shall all leave this world soon.
                    ليتني أموت على ما ماتت عليه عجائز نيسابور

                    Comment


                    • Re: New Muslim support thread

                      Originally posted by Rifqah View Post
                      Alhamdulillah and thank you for finding that link. I thought I'd post for those who don't like to click. For those who don't like to read looong - you can't have car insurance.

                      The part that some people have messaged me about is that you can have car insurance if it's difficult not to have a car but in the UK, (unless you use a car specifically for your own business and need to transport major products such as in the building trade etc.) there are plenty of trains, buses, bicycles and two legs if you're predominantly using a car to get to and from work every day. I can't seriously use 'necessity' as an excuse.

                      Inshallah I'll ask Abu Mus'ab what is considered necessity and what is considered an excuse.
                      http://www.daruliftaa.com/node/5812

                      "However, it should be remembered that if one is obliged by law to have an insurance cover for one’s car, then it would be permissible for one to have insurance up to the minimum level required by law. Since the third party insurance is mandatory by law in many countries, it would be permissible to take up this insurance, for it is impossible for one to avoid it."

                      I would be completely shocked if the Imams of the masaajid around the UK are taking trains because driving a car is haram.

                      Can someone show me links of Imaams claiming it is haram and therefore they are taking trains?

                      :jkk:

                      Not saying it's not possible, just saying it's highly improbable.

                      Would love to know what they do at Green Lane masjid.


                      In case that it is completely haram, then all the Muslims driving to work are actually sinning.
                      Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 17-03-17, 03:09 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: New Muslim support thread

                        Originally posted by Rifqah View Post
                        I was told it is haram... [MENTION=82080]nonameakhi[/MENTION]

                        A contract between two or more parties is haram. All of the insurance contracts are more than two parties apparently.

                        I'm not asking you to say where you live but you must not be in the UK.
                        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                        I don't live there but before you do that , I would urge you to speak to someone knowledgeable in the UK regarding this. Do not grab any random fatwa online and just apply it. I mean , I wouldn't do such a thing.

                        Ask someone knowledgeable and pious in your own country. There are many people here on this forum from the UK , are you telling me no one here drives? I find that hard to believe.
                        insurance is haram and i dont think there are any ulema that say it isnt. yes many people do drive. some simply take out insurance and others, including myself, use methods where we dont. So for example a leasing option

                        My imams etc that do drive use the ''no choice'' argument. However its usually a false argument. For example many years ago a bunch of sufis had their pir give a fatwa that mortgage was allowed out of necessity. the same pir later changed the fatwa. The reason being that initially he was asked if it can be done out of necessity and he said yes. then he found out that people can rent and live in council houses so he said its not necessity

                        With a car people see it is a necessity but saving money isnt a necessity

                        Comment


                        • Re: New Muslim support thread

                          Originally posted by nonameakhi View Post
                          insurance is haram and i dont think there are any ulema that say it isnt. yes many people do drive. some simply take out insurance and others, including myself, use methods where we dont. So for example a leasing option

                          My imams etc that do drive use the ''no choice'' argument. However its usually a false argument. For example many years ago a bunch of sufis had their pir give a fatwa that mortgage was allowed out of necessity. the same pir later changed the fatwa. The reason being that initially he was asked if it can be done out of necessity and he said yes. then he found out that people can rent and live in council houses so he said its not necessity

                          With a car people see it is a necessity but saving money isnt a necessity
                          In the UK and for me, the "no choice" option would feel like an excuse to keep my car as, I don't haul heavy materials for my own business or anything, I just use it for going to work and general use. We have other means available here too, trains, buses, bikes and of course leasing (which Inshallah I'll look into).

                          Thank you for the information.
                          :jkk:

                          Comment


                          • Re: New Muslim support thread

                            Originally posted by Rifqah View Post
                            In the UK and for me, the "no choice" option would feel like an excuse to keep my car as, I don't haul heavy materials for my own business or anything, I just use it for going to work and general use. We have other means available here too, trains, buses, bikes and of course leasing (which Inshallah I'll look into).

                            Thank you for the information.
                            :jkk:
                            wa iyyak

                            I think the issue for us muslims is how we define necessity. For some I have known being slightly hungry is enough for them to eat a big mac at mcdonalds and they use the ''its halal if hungry'' yet there is a quote from Ayesha ra where she said that a whole month would pass without the family of the Prophet saw making a fire for cooking. Their diet would be dates and water only unless someone gifted them some meat (Bukhari)

                            I remember the story of the sahabi who denied the Prophet saw when he was being tortured used by some brother once and when i looked into it I found that this was after 11 days (if i recall correctly) of torture which included hot oil being poured on him.

                            Comment


                            • Re: New Muslim support thread

                              Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                              http://www.daruliftaa.com/node/5812

                              [B]"However, it should be remembered that if one is obliged by law to have an insurance cover for one’s car, then it would be permissible for one to have insurance up to the minimum level required by law. Since the third party insurance is mandatory by law in many countries, it would be permissible to take up this insurance, for it is impossible for one to avoid it"
                              [MENTION=82080]nonameakhi[/MENTION]

                              According to this , since it's obliged by law then it's fine.

                              Now if you can find away around it , that would be great. If not , you have this.

                              Comment


                              • Re: New Muslim support thread

                                Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                                [MENTION=82080]nonameakhi[/MENTION]

                                According to this , since it's obliged by law then it's fine.

                                Now if you can find away around it , that would be great. If not , you have this.
                                There is a way around it in the UK.

                                We have public transport that many people, without cars, use just fine.

                                Necessity would be, if you really couldn't get around any other way.

                                I don't know about other countries, maybe in your country there is not such a good public transport system to use. In the UK that's not the case.

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