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  • Question? Do you agree with the ban on women driving?

    Saudi Arabia had a law some time ago where women were prohibited from driving. Wonder what the people think of it.

    Do you think that the law was legitimate in terms of Islamic beliefs?
    10
    Yes
    30.00%
    3
    No
    70.00%
    7
    "When you want to cry, laugh.
    If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

  • #2
    salam alaykum wa rahmat allah
    the less the harm in her driving to her destination the more permissible it is
    if she dosent have a mahram that can drive her to her destination and she will get harassed in mixed public transport then driving to her destination is certainly better
    if she dosent have a mahram that can drive her to her destination and she will get harassed walking to her destination then driving to her destination is certainly better
    but if she abuse the fact that she have a car to travel between cities in her car alone without a mahram then that is prohibited due to the harm that might happen to her

    Comment


    • #3
      Isn't this a saudi cultural issue and nothing to do with islam? Happens in Bangladesh too and that's because the men (and women) dont want women to have freedom. Didnt some saudi scholars claim twitter leads you to hell back when it was convenient in preventing critique of their government...wouldn't be surprised if they try to use islam to justify all sorts of random ish.

      Re post above, maybe the answer would be to do more to tackle those harassing women rather than leave them to carry on being the rotten people they are and just lock up the women

      Comment


      • #4
        "يا أيها النبي لم تحرم ما أحل الله لك؟ "

        As a default, there is nothing to explicity prohibit a woman from driving. The rules of travel by foot would apply to the driving as well I guess... if the leader sees it fit, due to same prevalent issue, then probably he will have some scope to impose restrictions. Though, it would be very good for sisters to learn driving should any issues arise. Driving also has more hijaab for a woman than walking...Allahu A'lam.

        Wouldn't it be nice for men to just do all of the taxi services for their wives : ) that would be royalty... but there again he needs to go to work etc

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cho09082489 View Post
          Isn't this a saudi cultural issue and nothing to do with islam? Happens in Bangladesh too and that's because the men (and women) dont want women to have freedom. Didnt some saudi scholars claim twitter leads you to hell back when it was convenient in preventing critique of their government...wouldn't be surprised if they try to use islam to justify all sorts of random ish.

          Re post above, maybe the answer would be to do more to tackle those harassing women rather than leave them to carry on being the rotten people they are and just lock up the women
          Twitter leads you to hell goodness.
          I don't know why these countries like restricting freedoms for women even though it's not something prescribed in the religion. Happens in Pakistan as well.

          "When you want to cry, laugh.
          If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SeekingtheCreator View Post
            "يا أيها النبي لم تحرم ما أحل الله لك؟ "

            As a default, there is nothing to explicity prohibit a woman from driving. The rules of travel by foot would apply to the driving as well I guess... if the leader sees it fit, due to same prevalent issue, then probably he will have some scope to impose restrictions. Though, it would be very good for sisters to learn driving should any issues arise. Driving also has more hijaab for a woman than walking...Allahu A'lam.

            Wouldn't it be nice for men to just do all of the taxi services for their wives : ) that would be royalty... but there again he needs to go to work etc
            I agree. There have been numerous occasions where my mom had to drive since my father wasn't around at the time and there were important things that needed to be done. Thinking of a ban on driving for women therefore doesn't sit well in my head.
            "When you want to cry, laugh.
            If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bolt View Post
              Saudi Arabia had a law some time ago where women were prohibited from driving. Wonder what the people think of it.

              Do you think that the law was legitimate in terms of Islamic beliefs?
              If there were no need, I would agree with a ban on women driving and likewise I would agree with a ban on driving generally including for men.

              Burns fuel, pollutes the Earth, creates waste. Even with electical vehicles you are getting the power from those fossil fuel plants. Even with the growth of Solar, the ignorant Kuffar have not thought ahead and the solar panels they use create toxic waste and pollution when being decomissioned. We should walk as much as we can, then cycle then use public transport. Public transport will always be more efficient and superior to private transport as there is less energy use.

              Nevertheless, the modern Ulama have not prohibited such things even if they cause harm to the Earth and its creatures, based on the fact that there is a need.

              Anyway, if we talk about riding horses etc. Then the Fuqahah that I take fatwa from have stated that this is Makruh and permitted only in need (and with full hijab etc.), due to general provisions on modesty etc. The Muhadithun have stated that they know of no such authentic hadith explicitly prohibiting it (there is a commonly cited fabrication however).

              SourcesFiqhi fatawa are in accordance with the Hanafi school - I cannot comment on Saudi whose government scholars generally follow the Hanbali school.

              Comment


              • #8
                (Mistakenly stated)
                Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 10-08-20, 04:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                  ...
                  Actually the fatwa on Camels would be the same, even if RasulAllah Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam praised the women who rode - as the stipulations on riding horses are general stipulations related to women travelling out the house (i.e. that it is done only for necessity etc.) in the Hanafi school.

                  Sources
                  Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 10-08-20, 04:37 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Anyone who makes something haram that Allah didn't should fear his wrath.

                    Especially when it's based on petty and moronic reasonings.
                    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For anyone who wants to have a good laugh:

                      Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen was asked: I hope you can explain the ruling on women driving cars. And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?

                      The answer to this question is based on two principles which are well known among the Muslim scholars:

                      The first principle is: that whatever leads to haraam is itself haraam. The evidence for this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

                      “And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge”

                      [al-An’aam 6:108]

                      So Allaah forbids insulting the gods of the mushrikeen – even though that serves an interest – because it leads to insults against Allaah.

                      The second principle is: that warding off evil – if it is equal to or greater than the interests concerned – takes precedence over bringing benefits. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

                      “They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit”

                      [al-Baqarah 2:219]

                      Allaah has forbidden alcohol and gambling even though there is some benefit in them, so as to ward off the evils that result from them.

                      Based on these two principles, the ruling on women driving should be clear, because women driving includes a number of evils, including the following:

                      1 – Removal of hijab, because driving a car involves uncovering the face which is the site of fitnah and attracts the glance of men. A woman is only regarded as beautiful or ugly on the basis of her face, i.e., if it is said that she is beautiful or ugly, people only think in terms of her face. If something else is meant it must be specified, so that one would say that she has beautiful hands or beautiful hair or beautiful feet. Hence it is known that the face is the focal point. If someone were to say that a woman can drive a car without taking off her hijab, by covering her face and wearing dark glasses over her eyes, the answer to that is that this is not what really happens when women drive cars. Ask those who have seen them in other countries. Even if we assume that this could be applied initially, it would not last for long, rather the situation would soon become as it is in other countries where women drive. This is how things usually develop; they start out in an acceptable fashion then they get worse.

                      2 – Another evil consequence of women driving cars is that they lose their modesty, and modesty is part of faith as is narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Modesty is the noble characteristic that befits the nature of women and protects them from being exposed to fitnah. Hence it is mentioned in a metaphorical sense (in Arabic), in the phrase “more modest than a virgin in her seclusion.” Once a woman’s modesty is lost, do not ask about her.

                      3 – It also leads to women going out of the house a great deal, but their homes are better for them – as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said – because those who love to drive enjoy it very much, hence you see them driving around in their cars here and there for no purpose, except to enjoy driving.

                      4 – You may find a divorced woman going where she wants, whenever she wants and however she wants, for whatever purpose she wants, because she is alone in her car, at any time she wants of the day or night. She may stay out until late at night. If people are complaining about this with regard to young men, then what about young women, going all over the place the length and breadth of the country, and maybe even beyond its borders.

                      5 – It is a means of women rebelling against their families and husbands; at the least provocation they may go out of the house and drive in the car to wherever they think they can get some peace, as happens in the case of some young men, who are able to put up with more than women.

                      6 – It is a cause of fitnah in many places: when stopping at the traffic lights, or at gas stations, or at inspection points, or when stopped by policemen at the scenes of traffic infractions or accidents, or if the car stalls and the woman needs help. What will her situation be in this case? Perhaps she may come across an immoral man who takes advantage of her in return for helping her, especially if her need is great to the point of urgency.

                      7 – When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that.

                      8 – It causes fitnah to flourish because women – by their nature – like to make themselves look good with clothing etc. Do you not see how attached they are to fashion? Every time a new fashion appears they throw away what they have and rush to buy the new things, even if it is worse than what they have. Do you not see the adornments that they hang on their walls? In the same way – or perhaps more so – with the cars that they drive, whenever a new model appears they will give up the first for the new one.

                      What a load of hogwash.
                      You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                      You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm surprised some people on here voted yes.

                        I don't think that preventing women from driving is useful. I really believe that it does more harm than good, but still, I think it's better to have more respect for the scholars who took that opinion.

                        Before I had a car I used to walk and take public transport, and that exposed me to a lot of bad and even dangerous situations. All of that was while wearing the niqab and jilbab, so no, you can't put any blame of fitnah on me. To give one example, I was walking through the ghetto and some loser sitting outside a liquor store catcalled me. I was pretty irritated and I swung my arm at him in a "go away" type motion, but I realize that he probably interpreted it as a backhanded slap. He stood up and started cussing at me and said some things implying that he wanted to beat me. Imagine if he really did come for me. What kind of situation would I be in then? And I don't think he was drunk. Men in those areas are more filthy and corrupt than sewage water. This is just one example of many others. And honestly, I used to be a lot more shy before having to walk and take public transport, and all those occurrences took away from my modesty. You can kind of see that in how I reacted to that man.

                        It doesn't make sense to expect women to walk or just rely on men around them. Walking exposes them to more men and fitnah, and expecting women to wait on men all the time is not reasonable as not all women have men or reliable/available men in their lives.
                        Last edited by .khayriyyah.; 14-08-20, 03:42 AM.
                        Has the time not come for those who have believed that their hearts should become humbly submissive at the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And let them not be like those who were given the Scripture before, and a long period passed over them, so their hearts hardened; and many of them are defiantly disobedient. (57:16)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post
                          I'm surprised some people on here voted yes.

                          It doesn't make sense to expect women to walk or just rely on men around them. Walking exposes them to more men and fitnah, and expecting women to wait on men all the time is not reasonable as not all women have men or reliable/available men in their lives.
                          This.
                          "When you want to cry, laugh.
                          If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post
                            I'm surprised some people on here voted yes.

                            I don't think that preventing women from driving is useful. I really believe that it does more harm than good, but still, I think it's better to have more respect for the scholars who took that opinion.

                            Before I had a car I used to walk and take public transport, and that exposed me to a lot of bad and even dangerous situations. All of that was while wearing the niqab and jilbab, so no, you can't put any blame of fitnah on me. To give one example, I was walking through the ghetto and some loser sitting outside a liquor store catcalled me. I was pretty irritated and I swung my arm at him in a "go away" type motion, but I realize that he probably interpreted it as a backhanded slap. He stood up and started cussing at me and said some things implying that he wanted to beat me. Imagine if he really did come for me. What kind of situation would I be in then? And I don't think he was drunk. Men in those areas are more filthy and corrupt than sewage water. This is just one example of many others. And honestly, I used to be a lot more shy before having to walk and take public transport, and all those occurrences took away from my modesty. You can kind of see that in how I reacted to that man.

                            It doesn't make sense to expect women to walk or just rely on men around them. Walking exposes them to more men and fitnah, and expecting women to wait on men all the time is not reasonable as not all women have men or reliable/available men in their lives.
                            Exactly sis. It's so comfortable as a niqaabi to drive and get along without asking others for help. I have to do a 20 min walk back and forth to the madrasah and only recently it's become comfortable (husband takes car for work). I find the bus worse as there are more folks on there... hence I prefer to walk. Not every woman likes to adorn herself outside, some of us will cover up and risk taunts to remain obedient to Allah. May Allah grant us steadfastness and safety. Ameen.

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