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  • #31
    Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
    Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah.

    I've never really given it too much thought but it occurred to a few times before fleetingly and now recently...

    Sisters don't have too many options when it comes to female Islamic speakers (or maybe they do and I just don't know them?) and it's commonly the case that they will be watching videos of a male daa'i or scholar...

    As a brother, I don't watch female speakers and I don't believe it's acceptable for me to do so, but if I did, I wonder would I start to admire the speaker 'a little too much' and in the wrong ways...? If she speaks well, maybe in an appealing manner, has a charming demeanour, if she speaks of things that resonate with me while she is also blessed with some physical beauty?

    I'm sure you understand what I mean here.

    Is it an issue for sisters?
    ​​​​​​Do you just listen and avoid looking at the male speaker in the video?
    Would you disapprove of your husband or future husband watching/listening to a female speaker?

    Brothers, would you be uncomfortable with your wife watching a particular favourite male speaker / speakers, especially if they are charismatic, good-looking, etc, etc?

    (Mutiple Choice Poll, btw, and anonymous)
    ​​
    We haven't been told to lower our gaze if we admire the speaker akhi,

    We've been commanded by Allah عز و جل to lower our gaze,

    Wether we think we feel attracted, admire the speaker or not.
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
      I think one of the reasons behind me thinking a little more about this whole issue was a video my sister posted to me on my phone. It was of a sister claiming she along with a number of other practicing sisters were married, used, abused mentally and physically and divorced (discarded) in quick succession by yet another very well-known person thought of as a scholar / taalibul ilm.

      Clearly people develop admiration and also other feelings for such people. We have a tendency to be forgetful of the good we have also and shaitaan loves to make the grass look greener on the other side, so even with married people there could be stirrings of dissatisfaction and other things arising...(?)

      (Just on that, the amount of comments you find on certain videos where people are saying things such as 'I wish I had a husband like him ' or 'if my husband was only like him' and similar.)

      I hadn't really thought meaningfully about it from the the point of view of a husband or a wife until now, especially with a few of these recent unsavoury situations coming to light.

      For a brother to be watching a female speaker, being male myself I can appreciate why we should not be watching (or even be listening to) female speakers. For some reason I had this default acceptance that it isn't really a big issue for women though, or that practicing sisters naturally and easily refrain from looking at the person speaking given the context of this whole discussion.


      The points made by Sr @Rumaysah...

      Hmmm... Sister mentioned preference. It makes me think, unless we're talking about a different kind of knowledge being imparted and in a very different setting, could we really say there is an actual need?

      ...And some would say (as has been done to be fair) that woman could listen to those same reminders without having to look..?

      ​​​​​For myself probably the most powerful, deeply penetrating words of reminder and teaching I have listened to over the years were only audio recordings of shuyookh talking (alhamdulillah).

      There are also the fiqhi rulings themselves on these matters where I think we're likely to find a few differing opinions - those haven't been bought up yet. The thread was really just as a result of my own quiet musings on the matter, though, and as something for us to think about in relation to ourselves if we hadn't already.
      Are you referring to a UK speaker or someone overseas?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

        Are you referring to a UK speaker or someone overseas?
        Not UK-based, sister. I'd prefer to not give away too many details, inshaa'Allah, so I can't really say much else.

        (Jazaa'akallah Khair)
        LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH
        -------------------------------
        "And if you would count the graces of God, never could you be able to count them. Truly, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'aan 16:18)
        NOTE: Please kindly do NOT rep my posts. (Jazaa'akumullah).

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Fakhri View Post

          Not UK-based, sister. I'd prefer to not give away too many details, inshaa'Allah, so I can't really say much else.

          (Jazaa'akallah Khair)
          That's understandable.

          Comment


          • #35
            The best Speech is the Qur'aan and the best guidance is the guidance of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


            Allaah says in the Qur'aan


            Tell the believing men to to lower their gaze and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

            [Qur'aan 24:30]


            If you look at a woman accidentally, you are to look away as quickly as possible.


            Jarir bin 'Abdullah (May Allah be pleased with him) said:

            I asked the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) about (the Islamic ruling on) accidental glance (i.e., at a woman one is not Islamically allowed to look at) and he ordered me to turn my eyes away.

            [Sahih Muslim]


            Tafsir Ibn Kathiir
            Watch those eyes

            Comment


            • #36
              Allaah also says


              And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.)...



              Many seem to forget this. Little knowledge can be dangerous.
              Watch those eyes

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
                Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah.

                I've never really given it too much thought but it occurred to a few times before fleetingly and now recently...

                Sisters don't have too many options when it comes to female Islamic speakers (or maybe they do and I just don't know them?) and it's commonly the case that they will be watching videos of a male daa'i or scholar...

                As a brother, I don't watch female speakers and I don't believe it's acceptable for me to do so, but if I did, I wonder would I start to admire the speaker 'a little too much' and in the wrong ways...? If she speaks well, maybe in an appealing manner, has a charming demeanour, if she speaks of things that resonate with me while she is also blessed with some physical beauty?

                I'm sure you understand what I mean here.

                Is it an issue for sisters?
                ​​​​​​Do you just listen and avoid looking at the male speaker in the video?
                Would you disapprove of your husband or future husband watching/listening to a female speaker?

                Brothers, would you be uncomfortable with your wife watching a particular favourite male speaker / speakers, especially if they are charismatic, good-looking, etc, etc?

                (Mutiple Choice Poll, btw, and anonymous)
                ​​
                I thought we didn't have the the option to stare at another non Mahram, are you suggesting its a matter of preference?
                ​​​​​​
                if not whats the point of this poll?

                I mean Surely there is a ruling on this matter right?

                In which case our preference is irrelevant,
                http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

                  I thought we didn't have the the option to stare at another non Mahram, are you suggesting its a matter of preference?
                  ​​​​​​
                  if not whats the point of this poll?

                  I mean Surely there is a ruling on this matter right?

                  In which case our preference is irrelevant,
                  Maybe you could post for us, br Saif Uddin, specifically related to student teacher interaction, something that includes the different views there might be, and allowances if any.

                  If you go by the actions and permitted practices of many places of Islamic learning these days, there seems to be more than one ruling rather than the one, even those you might consider more conservative.

                  The obvious point is that we restrain our eyes with non-nahram male/female. Yet when it comes to this setting/context, it somehow seems to become different.
                  LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH
                  -------------------------------
                  "And if you would count the graces of God, never could you be able to count them. Truly, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'aan 16:18)
                  NOTE: Please kindly do NOT rep my posts. (Jazaa'akumullah).

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Fakhri View Post

                    Maybe you could post for us, br Saif Uddin, specifically related to student teacher interaction, something that includes the different views there might be, and allowances if any.

                    If you go by the actions and permitted practices of many places of Islamic learning these days, there seems to be more than one ruling rather than the one, even those you might consider more conservative.

                    The obvious point is that we restrain our eyes with non-nahram male/female. Yet when it comes to this setting/context, it somehow seems to become different.
                    Akhi you need to ask a qualified sheikh for a ruling. I don't see the point in asking for individual opinions, since we don't have the luxury to pick and choose.

                    Of course we don't go by the actions of people, otherwise we'd be in the same mess as the Deviants who allow intermingling, with no barriers between brothers and sisters in Islam.

                    Thats the modernist deviant view. (Highlighted above) that for dawah or Islah, we cann throw Hijaab between men and women out the window.

                    جزاك الله خيرا

                    ​​​​​
                    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 03-09-18, 10:48 AM.
                    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

                      Akhi you need to ask a qualified sheikh for a ruling. I don't see the point in asking for individual opinions, since we don't have the luxury to pick and choose.

                      Of course we don't go by the actions of people, otherwise we'd be in the same mess as the Deviants who allow intermingling, with no barriers between brothers and sisters in Islam.

                      Thats the modernist deviant view. (Highlighted above) that for dawah or Islah, we cann throw Hijaab between men and women out the window.

                      جزاك الله خيرا

                      ​​​​​
                      Brother Saif Uddin - the issue isn't about getting a ruling. We all know the limitations set regarding freemixing.

                      The point of contention is - how can people of knowledge convey their teachings without compromising the mixed gender interaction?

                      I think that's what Br Fakhri is asking.

                      What we have - in some institutions - is freemixing from people who should know better.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
                        Sisters don't have too many options when it comes to female Islamic speakers (or maybe they do and I just don't know them?) and it's commonly the case that they will be watching videos of a male daa'i or scholar...
                        Can a woman look at men who are strangers when there is no fear of fitnah and she does so without any lust or desire?

                        The scholars have two opinions on the matter.

                        The first opinion is that it is permissible.

                        Ibn Hajar al-asqalaani said that based on the title that Imaam al-Bukhaari gave to the chapter under which he put this hadiith it appears that his Madhhab was that it was permissible.

                        He then goes on to say that there are two opinions among the Shaafi'i and the following hadith seems to support those who permit it.

                        Narrated 'Urwa:

                        Aisha said, "While the Ethiopians were playing with their small spears, Allah's Messenger (sallallaahu alayi wa sallam) screened me behind him and I watched (that display) and kept on watching till I left on my own." So you may estimate of what age a little girl may listen to amusement.


                        Ibn Baaz holds this opinion as well. He further highlights that during the time of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) women would pray behind men. He says they also see men in the market place.

                        As long as there is no fear of fitnah and the woman looks without desire or lust, there is no issue.


                        The other opinion is that it is not permissible.

                        al-Nawawi says that in the above mentioned hadith there is evidence that it is permissible for a woman to look at the act of men playing without looking at their bodies. If she looks at their faces with desire than that is haraam by agreement of all scholars. If she does it without desire and lust and there is no fear of fitnah than there are two views among our Companions and most correct opinion is that it is haraam.
                        Watch those eyes

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          As for a male looking at a woman who is a stranger without desire or lust, then the majority of scholars hold that it is not permissible.

                          Some scholars like Ibn Hazm said that if he looks at her palms and face (that which is permissible for her to display) without desire or lust, then that is permissible.
                          Watch those eyes

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                            As for a male looking at a woman who is a stranger without desire or lust, then the majority of scholars hold that it is not permissible.
                            Are you sure?
                            You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                            You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post

                              Are you sure?
                              Yes yaani have you read something different?
                              Watch those eyes

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post

                                Yes yaani have you read something different?
                                Yes, the opposite.
                                You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                                You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                                Comment

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