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Does Skin Colour Matter?????

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    Originally posted by muzzybee View Post

    I dont think just because you like fair skin ,and disregard others is racism at all it is preference ,the problem is you disregard a race or color for a reason then it is racism.

    liking or feeling attracted to only one feature is not a negative thought process which is needed for it to be racial.

    the negative can be due to superiority as well.
    Eg : I only like fair cos it is Better than others ,this is wrong.
    But it is- Whether subconsciously or consciously.

    Studies have shown in baby and child behaviour colour/race preferences are not naturally occurring and therefore are a direct result of society- if you have a preference for fairer people ask yourself how and why the preference came from? There's no such thing as a preference without any reason. Its inverted racism or more accurately colourism/shadeism.

    The preference of colour stems from the above even if you aren't consciously discriminating against anyone its still directly influenced.

    Comment


      https://colorismhealing.org/colorism-in-relationships/

      I tried to copy and paste this so people could read without going clicking the link but it wasn't letting me post. Its worth a look as it explains what I am trying to get across in detail about how colourism is involved in relationships. will try to post the bit abour preference vs prejudice inshaAllah
      "Preference or Prejudice?


      I acknowledge that many relationship choices are controlled by subconscious programming, both biological and sociological. However, there are some clear signs that a person isn’t innocently falling for whomever destiny has chosen for them. Predetermined Attraction


      If physical attraction is supposed to be biological and instinctual, then predetermining the skin color of a future partner is a clear warning sign that a person is color struck.

      Saying, “I only date ___ skinned girls/guys” exposes the colorism behind a person’s choice of partners.

      Also, predetermining who you will partner with based on their skin color is NOT the same as preferring a certain personality, work ethic, or sense of humor. Skin color has no substantive effect on the quality of a relationship, whereas other sorts of personal qualities often do.

      If a person is really just reacting to pure physical attraction rather than superficial societal standards, they would not be able to predetermine who they will or will not be attracted to based solely on skin color because not all dark/brown/light skinned people look alike.

      And just because lots of people have similar superficial prejudices against other physical features, doesn’t make colorism in relationships okay. Fetishes or Stereotypes about Complexion


      A second warning sign that a person is color struck is that they make excessive comments about skin color. The comments may be positive or negative, and they may be about the person they’re currently in a relationship with or a total stranger.

      The real giveaway is whether the comment contains over-generalizations, fetishizing language, and stereotypes (“dark/light skinned girls be like…”). If a person’s choice is really just “preference” based purely on biological physical attraction and not socially conditioned prejudice, then there would be no need for fetishizing and stereotyping. If you can’t express your so called “preference” without demeaning other people, then it’s not merely a “preference,” it’s actually prejudice. If racist stereotypes aren’t cool with you, then colorist stereotypes shouldn’t be either. And it does not matter if the person claims it’s “just a joke.” It’s still colorism.

      If you can’t express your so called “preference” without fetishizing complexion, then it’s not a “preference,” but a sickness. It’s one thing to find someone’s complexion, hair, and features attractive. It’s another thing entirely to fetishize those traits. Hypocritical Stance on Discrimination


      Someone says they would never date outside of their race, and you call them racist. Someone says they’d never date a dark skinned girl, and you shrug and say it’s just “preference.” Those who insist that race should not matter in who a person loves, should, by their own logic, also insist that skin tone should not matter. Instead, those who “go to bat” to defend black men who choose to date/marry non-black women, saying it’s wrong to discriminate based on race, are completely silent and perfectly okay with black men (and women) discriminating based on skin tone. They support skin tone discrimination by saying, “it’s just preference,” but will call other people racist if they choose to only date within their race.

      The ugly truth is that this double standard plays into the hands of colorism and white supremacy: Fight for the right to marry white/light (an effort founded on the perceived superiority of whiteness) and cosign anti-blackness. Why Does it Matter?
      1. These harmful beliefs don’t just affect who dates whom. These negative ideas permeate other important aspects of our lives like employment and wealth.
      2. Colorism in dating and marriage choices upholds white supremacy and racism.
      3. Anti-black prejudice is wrong. Period.
      Recognition is Only the Beginning


      Some people really struggle to admit their prejudices (and perhaps never will), while others boast about their colorism. I don’t go out crusading to change these people’s attitudes and actions. I merely focus on awareness. It’s not my goal to make a color struck adult see the beauty in all skin tones. But by focusing on awareness, and acknowledging that the problem of colorism in relationships is real, perhaps we can impact younger/future generations and open up lanes of healing."

      Comment


        This thread started over ten years ago and is still going- looks like the topic is no closer to being resolved. At this rate the thread will keep going longer than the Duracell bunny.

        Bottom line: skin colour doesn't matter to Allah (swt), it only matters to human beings because the wider society carries prejudices over it because people are stupid.
        The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

        Comment


          The real bottom line is that it doesn't matter what people think about my preferences because in the end, I have to wake up everyday and see that other person whom I married, so its better that she is pleasing to my eye and if that is racist and superficial then so be it. Also, I would never marry a woman with ugly hands and feet either...
          The Prophet s.a.a.w warned when he said: "You will surely follow the ways of those who came before you, in exactly the same fashion, to the point were they to enter the hole of a lizard, you too would enter it." It was asked of him, "O Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w., do you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else?" (Bukhari and Muslim)

          Comment


            Um_saf so ur saying that it is impossible for someone to not be racist if they prefer one color over another? and that it is ALWAYS because of indoctrination and racism deep down?

            Comment


              Originally posted by Musbah View Post
              The real bottom line is that it doesn't matter what people think about my preferences because in the end, I have to wake up everyday and see that other person whom I married, so its better that she is pleasing to my eye and if that is racist and superficial then so be it. Also, I would never marry a woman with ugly hands and feet either...
              your not allowed to have preferences, to prove your not prejudice u MUST marry someone you dont feel anything towards!

              Comment


                I am saying that preferences are caused by society-it impacts what we define as beauty. Did you read what I quoted? And yes the colourism is directly related to racism. Whether people what to accept that they have been heavily influenced by society to believe the beauty standard it doesn't change the facts. But I will never agree that the preference is natural nor not related to racism. It sucks to be judged on you skin tone alone regardless if its in a positive or negative way.

                As mother I would not allow my daughter to marry a man who pre-stated he wanted a fair wife, why? My child is more than a colour and he has just revealed his colour bias. If InshaAllah in the future I have other children it angers and upsets me to think that one of my children might be seen as 'preferred' purely on the tone of skin alone. I would not be happy if my child pre-stated a preference to race/colour and I somehow failed them.

                I will never make my children feel like they aren't good enough because of ignorance and yet I have seen mothers desperately wanting to make their kids 'fairer'-often beginning in pregnancy with the belief what you eat influences skin tone, try correcting and they don't believe it.

                Its a sad world we live in when we cant see or raise above superficial standards and when the 'preferences' cause negative affects with people desperately trying to change themselves to fit what society deems beautiful.(The same way weight/shape 'ideals' cause eating disorders and increase plastic surgery rates.)

                You know mixed race children (and people in general) are regularly fetishized because they have 'the compete ideal' not too pale for one society not to dark in another. I have heard some purely ignorant comments from some people over the years.Not okay.

                If you like a women who happens to have fair skin not a problem, only looking for a fair girl and disregarding others is. If you happen to like a women who has bronzed skin okay, only looking for a bronzed girl isn't okay. See the difference?

                It isn't going to change peoples 'preferences' on here but if we challenge societies standards maybe our children wont judge beauty as skin deep? wishful thinking I know.
                Last edited by Um_Saf; 07-02-18, 03:36 PM.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Musbah View Post
                  The real bottom line is that it doesn't matter what people think about my preferences because in the end, I have to wake up everyday and see that other person whom I married, so its better that she is pleasing to my eye and if that is racist and superficial then so be it. Also, I would never marry a woman with ugly hands and feet either...
                  How will that make your wife feel that she was 'selected' only because she happens to be fair and had she been born exactly the same but with darker skin tone you would have disregarded her as a potential? How you feel personally being rejected or seeing your children being rejected because someone classed you/ them as "too dark"?

                  I can tell you there was nothing worse than only being seen as attractive because of skin tone- its just as bad as if you were rejected as 'unattractive' on skin tone. Hearing 'wow your so fair' is like yeah that isn't a compliment- its stating fact.

                  Comment


                    Taken from the link I posted- https://colorismhealing.org/colorism-in-relationships/

                    "we can control who we love. As a society and as individuals, we make conscious choices about who’s loved and who’s rejected. We must not be satisfied with an uncritical acceptance of our beauty standards. We have to be willing to examine why we have preferences and realize that “preference” isn’t merely biological, physical, harmless attraction. Our preferences are shaped, molded, and conditioned by our environment. There’s no doubt in my mind that colorism plays a huge role in romantic relationships, but perhaps there’s some doubt in yours. So here’s why I’m so sure that colorism exists in relationships.

                    As long as racism exists, and as long as that racism is internalized by various groups of people, colorism will also exist. That’s because racism causes colorism, like an offshoot.

                    If you believe that the world has evolved to a point where racism is no longer an everyday problem, then you might not recognize colorism as a problem either.
                    It’s not surprising that some blacks have adopted “society’s color complex” because of all the racism, white supremacy, and stereotypes that saturate everyday culture.

                    Tastsoglous also summarizes a lot of historical research on the issue by writing, “Even in the Black community, the fair-skinned Black woman who most nearly resembled White women was seen as the lady and placed on a pedestal, whereas darker-skinned Black women were viewed as b****** and whores.”

                    Many Jamaicans who bleach their skin do so to be more attractive to potential mates.

                    Charles also makes the very important statement that, “some of these people choose a browning [light skin] partner to have light skin children.”

                    Although there’s more research, I’ll close this section by referring to the writings of Darrick Hamilton, Arthur H. Goldsmith, and William Darity, who co-wrote “Shedding ‘light’ on marriage: The influence of skin shade on marriage for black females.” In that article, the writers refer to prior research that’s provided “ample evidence that greater social status is ascribed to black women with lighter skin shade in the U.S.”

                    However, in their own research, they establish further evidence of this, specifically for women under the age of 30. They report that “as skin shade lightens the incidence of marriage rises.” More specifically, they report general percentages as follows: “55 percent of light skinned black females had been married, but only 30 percent of those with medium skin shade and 23 percent of the dark skinned females had ever been married. The ever married rate for young white women, 50 percent, is slightly less than the rate for young light skin blackwomen…”

                    In a short film- "Fair? a documentary about skin color in India" people report on the pervasive culture of colorism in India. The first woman to speak in , who’s not really dark by world standards, admits that throughout her childhood people had told her: “You are dark, so you will never get married.”

                    Other testimonies in the documentary discuss how weddings have been cancelled because the bride was too dark, that photos used in marriage proposals are lightened and the women are made to wear powder to appear fairer, that local ads specifically request fair skinned marriage partners, and many more instances of day-to-day colorism in relationships"

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Um_Saf View Post

                      How will that make your wife feel that she was 'selected' only because she happens to be fair and had she been born exactly the same but with darker skin tone you would have disregarded her as a potential? How you feel personally being rejected or seeing your children being rejected because someone classed you/ them as "too dark"?

                      I can tell you there was nothing worse than only being seen as attractive because of skin tone- its just as bad as if you were rejected as 'unattractive' on skin tone. Hearing 'wow your so fair' is like yeah that isn't a compliment- its stating fact.
                      I am white and my wife is Indian with the bronze skin tone that I love in a woman. She was not offended when I told her what I like even down to the hands and feet.

                      Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: When one of you asked a woman in marriage, if he is able to look at what will induce him to marry her, he should do so. He (Jabir) said: I asked a girl in marriage, I used to look at her secretly, until I looked at what induced me to marry her. I, therefore, married her. (Abu Dawud graded hasan)

                      The Prophet s.a.a.w warned when he said: "You will surely follow the ways of those who came before you, in exactly the same fashion, to the point were they to enter the hole of a lizard, you too would enter it." It was asked of him, "O Messenger of Allah s.a.a.w., do you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else?" (Bukhari and Muslim)

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Musbah View Post

                        I am white and my wife is Indian with the bronze skin tone that I love in a woman. She was not offended when I told her what I like even down to the hands and feet.

                        Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: When one of you asked a woman in marriage, if he is able to look at what will induce him to marry her, he should do so. He (Jabir) said: I asked a girl in marriage, I used to look at her secretly, until I looked at what induced me to marry her. I, therefore, married her. (Abu Dawud graded hasan)
                        I am not saying you should marry someone your not attracted to- I am not saying you cant find complexion attractive- of course you can.

                        But did you seek out a bronzed women or did you consider her as a potential rather than an attractive colour? That's the difference I am trying to explain-of course we should find our spouses attractive.
                        But if you are discriminating potentials due to skin colour alone- that not okay and falls into colourism.
                        Finding a women you find pleasing to look at is very different to prejudging who you will find attractive on colour alone, would you consider a pale potential or black potential for example?

                        As a white person who lived I assume in a society where bronzed is the beauty standard you have proved the point that we are influenced in what is attractive to us. In the west I have heard constant negative about my skin tone.
                        Perhaps your wife is pleased she found a husband who saw her beauty without the need to "be fair".

                        I have seen and experienced some very negative views about dark people in India- it impacts negatively when a large % of the society feels the need to change themselves in order to get married, when a mother says her baby isn't as beautiful because the baby is dark. To people overly praising me, taking pictures of my child in public without consent etc. Its sad to realise that the "obsession" people had was not because my baby was cute but because baby looked white. That's not ok-its racism.

                        Comment


                          Since seeing this post I have looked into this history of beauty standards- Because I do feel very strongly about racism and colourism as it affects us all- including our children and future children.

                          Because we are talking about colourism. I thought its worth looking at how the western beauty standards changed over time from fairness to tanned- As the white brothers are stating preferences to tanned/bronzed-maybe we should be in interested in why its now 'fashionable' for white people to be bronzed as compared to other societies continued fair fashion?
                          Beauty standards are all related to being (or being perceived as) wealthily and high class/ imitating the rich. So lets stop trying to fool ourselves that its a naturally occurring preference we have without any social influence inshaAllah. As how can generations of white men desiring white/very fair women suddenly change to desiring bronzed women be natural?

                          https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ory-of-tanning (I will post the article in segments as it isn't allowing me to post it in one post)
                          Last edited by Um_Saf; 08-02-18, 01:59 PM.

                          Comment


                            In the millennia preceding the industrial revolution, pallor was popular within the upper classes, hinting at a noble life of leisure spent indoors. Dark skin was associated with serfdom and toiling in fields all day. Using poisonous whiteners to create pale skin has been popular throughout history – particularly during the ancient Greek, Roman and Elizabethan eras.
                            The trend for whiteness halted after the industrial revolution. Its corollary urbanisation of Britain meant that by the 19th century, the working classes had moved into the shadows. They lived in cramped dwellings and worked in mines and factories. Any leisure time available was taken indoors, to avoid the smog and soot of the streets. Children developed rickets and other bone deformities and, by 1890, Theobald Palm recognised that sunlight was crucial for bone development. A year later, John Harvey Kellogg – who had still to invent the corn flake – invented the "the incandescent light bath" which was used by King Edward VII, installing units in Buckingham Palace to help cure his gout.

                            Comment


                              In 1903, Niels Finsen was awarded the nobel prize for medicine after using "phototherapy" to remove skin ulcers caused by lupus vulgaris. Tanning was only made chic 20 years later, when coco channel caught too much sun on a Mediterranean cruise. The photographs of her disembarking in Cannes set a new precedent of beauty; her friend Prince Jean-Louis de Faucigny-Lucigne later said: "I think she may have invented sunbathing. At that time, she invented everything."
                              But for Britons, this look was aspirational rather than achievable – holidays were rare, and went no further than the nearest seaside or holiday camp. The depression, the second world war and its subsequent austerity measures meant that the closest women got to tanning was dousing their legs in bovril to create the illusion of stockings.

                              Comment


                                By the 1960s, colour film and commercial air travel were now available and people soon had enough money to enjoy both. The glamour of sunbathing drew Britons to the Mediterranean, particularly Spain. When economic strife returned to Britain in the 1970s, methods of sunless tanning – such as Coppertone self-tan – grew in popularity, and by 1978, the sunbed was reintroduced as a quick way of bronzing. The cosmetics boom of the 1980s and the accessibility of Mediterranean package holidays too carried the glamour of tanning through to the 1990s. By 2000, a survey showed that 50% of Britons said that returning with a tan was the single most important reason for actually going on holiday.
                                Women with toffee-coloured skin (Jessica Alba, Beyonce, Halle Berry, Kim Kardashian) are at the forefront of definitions of 21st century beauty. An argument runs that white women try to achieve similar complexions, ignoring that these celebrities' skin tones are the result of being mixed race or non-caucasian. However, those obsessed with tanning also have Katie Price, Victoria Beckham and even the whole cast of Gordie shore as tanning role models. The desire to tan runs deeper than race.
                                Fears surrounding the risks of tanning were confirmed in 2009, when it was found that rates of malignant melanoma in the UK have more than quadrupled in the past 30 years and that it is the most common form of cancer among those aged 15-34. The World Health Organisation has found that people who have been using tanning devices before age 30 are 75% more likely to develop melanoma.

                                The sunbeds (regulations) act, introduced in 2010 with much help from Girls Aloud singer and ex-tanner Nicola Roberts, made it illegal for tanning salons to allow under-18s to use sunbeds. However, there is no regulation on how often an adult can use a sunbed.

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