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An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

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    An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Hi

    I was listening to some atheistic arguments against religion. I heard this one, about Millions of babies dying each year. I know this comes under the "Problem of Evil" and I have heard some refutations for the problem of evil. but, I have a different take on this particular argument.

    Millions of babies, under the age of 7 dying each year due to natural causes, they get a free pass into heaven, without ever facing the hardships of life.

    I wish I would have died before the age of 7, without having to endure any of this worldly life.

    How do you address this issue?

    #2
    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Originally posted by panther123 View Post
    Hi

    I was listening to some atheistic arguments against religion. I heard this one, about Millions of babies dying each year. I know this comes under the "Problem of Evil" and I have heard some refutations for the problem of evil. but, I have a different take on this particular argument.

    Millions of babies, under the age of 7 dying each year due to natural causes, they get a free pass into heaven, without ever facing the hardships of life.

    I wish I would have died before the age of 7, without having to endure any of this worldly life.

    How do you address this issue?
    Correction, it is before puberty, not age 7.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

      simply avoided by not begetting babies

      arnt yall afraid about overcrowding your planet ?

      imagine if that happened now, you cant colonize other planets yet
      "arm yourself with knowledge and laugh at the accusers"
      me - 2017

      Comment


        #4
        Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

        Originally posted by panther123 View Post
        Hi

        I was listening to some atheistic arguments against religion. I heard this one, about Millions of babies dying each year. I know this comes under the "Problem of Evil" and I have heard some refutations for the problem of evil. but, I have a different take on this particular argument.

        Millions of babies, under the age of 7 dying each year due to natural causes, they get a free pass into heaven, without ever facing the hardships of life.

        I wish I would have died before the age of 7, without having to endure any of this worldly life.

        How do you address this issue?
        Exactly, they are the extremely fortunate ones.

        All of these types of arguments come from the fact that atheists don't believe in the afterlife, hence they view the sufferings of people as "evil" since they don't believe there will be a compensation in the hereafter.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

          Originally posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
          Exactly, they are the extremely fortunate ones.

          All of these types of arguments come from the fact that atheists don't believe in the afterlife, hence they view the sufferings of people as "evil" since they don't believe there will be a compensation in the hereafter.
          And if these fortunate children are going to have an eternally happy afterlife as compensation anyway, why give them a miserable fore-life? And why not arrange it so that everyone dies young enough to go directly to heaven?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

            You dont address the issue.

            All will given life;death; jannat or hell to who He wishes.

            You leave the dumb devils to argue and not waste time appeasing them.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

              Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
              And if these fortunate children are going to have an eternally happy afterlife as compensation anyway, why give them a miserable fore-life? And why not arrange it so that everyone dies young enough to go directly to heaven?

              Just as youth go to Jannah, kufar and atheists go to Jahannam. It may be infants suffer in this life such that kufar misguide themselves with evil thoughts and questions about Allah, thereby confirming and fulfilling their destiny as eternal dwellers of Jahannam.
              Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
              " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

              Comment


                #8
                Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                Just as youth go to Jannah, kufar and atheists go to Jahannam. It may be infants suffer in this life such that kufar misguide themselves with evil thoughts and questions about Allah, thereby confirming and fulfilling their destiny as eternal dwellers of Jahannam.
                I see, god tortures children so that people won't believe in a good god because god wants a reason to send them to hell and torture them for ever.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                  Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                  I see, god tortures children so that people won't believe in a good god because god wants a reason to send them to hell and torture them for ever.
                  First, be careful of what you say. You are becoming more emotional, rather than just being a cold skeptic.

                  Allah does NOT torture children. If anyone tortures children, it's men and women who think they know what is right, but in fact do wrong and corrupt others.

                  Discussions like this expose the irrationality of disbelievers such that when it suits them, they accuse Allah of doing "wrongs" like torture, but when it suits them, they claim they and themselves do "right". Arbitrary and self-serving criteria to elevate themselves and their illogic.

                  It is absolving men of wrongdoing arbitrarily when in fact they are accountable, and then granting men accolades arbitrarily, when in fact they deserve no credit and Allah deserves all praises.

                  Hypothetical ethereal discourse is fruitless when there are concrete realities that must be addressed.

                  Take Yemen today. Sep 2017 ce, Ngo reports 700,000 cases of cholera in Yemen, most are infants and sickly.

                  According to your illogic, Allah is torturing them with cholera.
                  In reality, cholera is an epidemic spread as a result of war in Yemen. The war is between the Zaidi Shia who overthrew the Saudi backed regime and the Saudi regime and their allies. They have all contributed to devastating the infrastructure and functioning of Yemeni society. On top of that, prior to the war, Yemen was in a deplorable state of affairs with wide-scale khat addictions and redirection of normal human resources; limited arable lands being used for khat production, indicating a sick society.
                  So, when the Zaidis moved, Yemen was one step away from regional disaster, famine, illnesses, much like China during and in the aftermath of the Opium Wars. (And there are more comparisons with imperial China: the British empire was directly involved in opium trade to cause China's opium epidemic, as well as facilitated the rebellion that caused the death of 20 million people. Similarly, the British empire was directly involved in mass production of khat in Africa and later Yemen while both were under British colonial power, resulting in expansion of khat in Yemen).

                  So perhaps 100s of 1000s of children are suffering from cholera, and millions are malnourished, suffering from too little food, or insufficient food.

                  Who in their right mind blames Allah for this and absolves Yemenis, especially Yemeni khat growers and users, Zaidi rebels, and Saudi tyrants who are destroying infrastructure, as well as Western powers selling bombs and planes for Saudis to use for years?

                  Who is being irrational?
                  Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
                  " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                    Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                    First, be careful of what you say. You are becoming more emotional, rather than just being a cold skeptic.

                    Allah does NOT torture children. If anyone tortures children, it's men and women who think they know what is right, but in fact do wrong and corrupt others.

                    Discussions like this expose the irrationality of disbelievers such that when it suits them, they accuse Allah of doing "wrongs" like torture, but when it suits them, they claim they and themselves do "right". Arbitrary and self-serving criteria to elevate themselves and their illogic.

                    It is absolving men of wrongdoing arbitrarily when in fact they are accountable, and then granting men accolades arbitrarily, when in fact they deserve no credit and Allah deserves all praises.

                    Hypothetical ethereal discourse is fruitless when there are concrete realities that must be addressed.

                    Take Yemen today. Sep 2017 ce, Ngo reports 700,000 cases of cholera in Yemen, most are infants and sickly.

                    According to your illogic, Allah is torturing them with cholera.
                    In reality, cholera is an epidemic spread as a result of war in Yemen. The war is between the Zaidi Shia who overthrew the Saudi backed regime and the Saudi regime and their allies. They have all contributed to devastating the infrastructure and functioning of Yemeni society. On top of that, prior to the war, Yemen was in a deplorable state of affairs with wide-scale khat addictions and redirection of normal human resources; limited arable lands being used for khat production, indicating a sick society.
                    So, when the Zaidis moved, Yemen was one step away from regional disaster, famine, illnesses, much like China during and in the aftermath of the Opium Wars. (And there are more comparisons with imperial China: the British empire was directly involved in opium trade to cause China's opium epidemic, as well as facilitated the rebellion that caused the death of 20 million people. Similarly, the British empire was directly involved in mass production of khat in Africa and later Yemen while both were under British colonial power, resulting in expansion of khat in Yemen).

                    So perhaps 100s of 1000s of children are suffering from cholera, and millions are malnourished, suffering from too little food, or insufficient food.

                    Who in their right mind blames Allah for this and absolves Yemenis, especially Yemeni khat growers and users, Zaidi rebels, and Saudi tyrants who are destroying infrastructure, as well as Western powers selling bombs and planes for Saudis to use for years?

                    Who is being irrational?
                    What would you describe the deliberate creation and infliction of children's diseases or painful and lethal parasites as, if you wouldn't call it torture?
                    Cholera has existed for a long time and it is only in the last couple of hundred years that effective ways to prevent, alleviate or cure it have existed. They were the result of human endeavours. Certainly, it isn't to human credit that children are dying of cholera in Yemen now. Nor is it to god''s credit - if you believe in god - that children died of cholera for hundreds of thousands of years before that and are still dying of it..

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                      Originally posted by panther123 View Post
                      Hi

                      I was listening to some atheistic arguments against religion. I heard this one, about Millions of babies dying each year. I know this comes under the "Problem of Evil" and I have heard some refutations for the problem of evil. but, I have a different take on this particular argument.

                      Millions of babies, under the age of 7 dying each year due to natural causes, they get a free pass into heaven, without ever facing the hardships of life.

                      I wish I would have died before the age of 7, without having to endure any of this worldly life.

                      How do you address this issue?
                      Entry into Jannah is by the mercy of Allah عز و جل

                      They slave doesn't get to decide or tell his Master who enters Jannah and who doesn't. Atheist arguments are illogical.

                      Secondly those are innocent children we are talking about, why an Atheist would have problems with innocent children entering Jannah, shows another problem in their mentality,

                      Thirdly according to Atheists, its "tough luck" that the babies died, were killed or suffered.

                      They will neither be recompensed nor the perpetrators punished.

                      Atheists have a mental fit, when you tell them the third point.

                      :jkk:
                      http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                      "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                      – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                        Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                        Entry into Jannah is by the mercy of Allah عز و جل

                        They slave doesn't get to decide or tell his Master who enters Jannah and who doesn't. Atheist arguments are illogical.

                        Secondly those are innocent children we are talking about, why an Atheist would have problems with innocent children entering Jannah, shows another problem in their mentality,
                        Slavery is wrong in itself, whoever the slave-owner.
                        The problem "with innocent children entering Jannah" is the supposed mercy shown. One assumption on the part of believers is that the "innocent children" in many cases are tortured by illness and then enter Jannah. Another is that their torture is somehow justified because they enter Jannah. A third is that entering Jannah will alleviate previous torture. A fourth is the arbitrary way that people are chosen at random to die young and enter Jannah or grow up and end up in hell. If god is so merciful and all-knowing, why aren't those who would commit sins the ones that die young and those who wouldn't the ones that die old?
                        Thirdly according to Atheists, its "tough luck" that the babies died, were killed or suffered.

                        They will neither be recompensed nor the perpetrators punished.

                        Atheists have a mental fit, when you tell them the third point.

                        :jkk:
                        Surely the "just tough luck" argument is the muslim argument? "It is all the will of allah." Including babies suffering and dying and the perpetrator - allah - is left unpunished.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                          Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                          What would you describe the deliberate creation and infliction of children's diseases or painful and lethal parasites as, if you wouldn't call it torture?
                          Cholera has existed for a long time and it is only in the last couple of hundred years that effective ways to prevent, alleviate or cure it have existed. They were the result of human endeavours. Certainly, it isn't to human credit that children are dying of cholera in Yemen now. Nor is it to god''s credit - if you believe in god - that children died of cholera for hundreds of thousands of years before that and are still dying of it..
                          Hypocritical claims. Once again, you absolve adults who corrupt the earth with shirk, greed and war and who cause children to suffer from diseases like cholera which is directly tie to contaminated waters with human biowaste.

                          Just "human endeavors"? Mufasaduun.
                          The recent cholera outbreak in Haiti was tied to UN 'peacekeepers' arrogantly dumping their biowaste into drinking water sources.

                          The despicable, arrogant lying rebellion against Allah illustrated on this thread shows what "kafir" truly means.
                          Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
                          " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                            Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                            Slavery is wrong in itself, whoever the slave-owner.
                            The problem "with innocent children entering Jannah" is the supposed mercy shown. One assumption on the part of believers is that the "innocent children" in many cases are tortured by illness and then enter Jannah. Another is that their torture is somehow justified because they enter Jannah. A third is that entering Jannah will alleviate previous torture. A fourth is the arbitrary way that people are chosen at random to die young and enter Jannah or grow up and end up in hell. If god is so merciful and all-knowing, why aren't those who would commit sins the ones that die young and those who wouldn't the ones that die old?
                            Surely the "just tough luck" argument is the muslim argument? "It is all the will of allah." Including babies suffering and dying and the perpetrator - allah - is left unpunished.
                            Your a slave to your desires.

                            We are slaves to Allah عز و جل the one who is most Just.

                            The tough luck argument is a logical consequence of Atheists disbelief, which Atheists don't like unfortunately.

                            As a Muslim, we don't believe in luck, nor on the screwed up mentality, that you only get your commuppance if you get caught, otherwise you got away with it.

                            Such a mentality does not exist amongst Muslims because we believe nobody he's away scott free from committing Heinous crimes.

                            Your dirty mentality isn't shared amongst the Muslimeen, we believe Allah عز و جل only wants good for us, we don't commit Evil and try and pass the buck shamelessly as you have done here

                            It's no wonder the moral compass of the Kuffar is completely Haywire.
                            http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                            "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                            – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                              Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                              First, be careful of what you say. You are becoming more emotional, rather than just being a cold skeptic.
                              I didn't detect any emotionalism in Sceptic's comment. Sometimes I think it's easy for believers to forget that, from the perspective of an unbeliever, God is just a character in a story. We get no more emotional about God's alleged crimes than about the crimes committed by Sauron from Lord of the Rings.

                              Who in their right mind blames Allah for this and absolves Yemenis, especially Yemeni khat growers and users, Zaidi rebels, and Saudi tyrants who are destroying infrastructure, as well as Western powers selling bombs and planes for Saudis to use for years?
                              This isn't a dichotomy where blame can only rest on one person or group. Rather, blame can be shared. To say that God is to blame is not to deny that the Yemenis are also to blame. It could well be the case that they are all to blame.

                              Comment

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