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An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

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    #16
    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Your a slave to your desires.

    We are slaves to Allah عز و جل the one who is most Just.

    The tough luck argument is a logical consequence of Atheists disbelief, which Atheists don't like unfortunately.

    As a Muslim, we don't believe in luck, nor on the screwed up mentality, that you only get your commuppance if you get caught, otherwise you got away with it.

    Such a mentality does not exist amongst Muslims because we believe nobody he's away scott free from committing Heinous crimes.

    Your dirty mentality isn't shared amongst the Muslimeen, we believe Allah عز و جل only wants good for us, we don't commit Evil and try and pass the buck shamelessly as you have done here

    It's no wonder the moral compass of the Kuffar is completely Haywire.
    Morality isn't about getting "comeuppance" or not. Wrong is wrong, whether or not you get caught, and whether or not you are eventually punished (either here or in some mythical afterlife). It's sad to think that some people need the threat of punishment to keep them from doing wrong, or the promise of reward to motivate them to do right. Hopefully you are not like that. I mean, I hope that if you ever come to doubt the existence of God, you won't suddenly degenerate into selfishness and immorality.

    I don't think most people are like that. Most people will try to live good lives even if they reject the existence of God.

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      #17
      Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

      Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
      Hypocritical claims. Once again, you absolve adults who corrupt the earth with shirk, greed and war and who cause children to suffer from diseases like cholera which is directly tie to contaminated waters with human biowaste.
      I didn't see Sceptic absolve anyone. Again, blame can be assigned to more than one party. To blame God is not to absolve human beings. It's just to blame God, period.

      The despicable, arrogant lying rebellion against Allah illustrated on this thread shows what "kafir" truly means.
      Whoa. Why are you getting so upset? Didn't you just scold Sceptic for being (so you thought) emotional?

      Personally, if a topic like this caused me to lash out like that, I'd stop participating in it. Just a suggestion.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

        Originally posted by hatsoff View Post
        Morality isn't about getting "comeuppance" or not. Wrong is wrong, whether or not you get caught, and whether or not you are eventually punished (either here or in some mythical afterlife). It's sad to think that some people need the threat of punishment to keep them from doing wrong, or the promise of reward to motivate them to do right. Hopefully you are not like that. I mean, I hope that if you ever come to doubt the existence of God, you won't suddenly degenerate into selfishness and immorality.

        I don't think most people are like that. Most people will try to live good lives even if they reject the existence of God.
        Morality is subjective according to an Atheist,

        They have no non-subjective criterion to define right and wrong, it's just a bundle of opinions,

        Also if Atheists don't believe in judgement day, then they have to accept that if they get done over and the culprit doesn't get caught, they got away there is no justice.

        Atheists present themselves as logical, but they don't like the logical consequences of their disbelief,
        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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          #19
          Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

          Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
          Morality is subjective according to an Atheist,

          They have no non-subjective criterion to define right and wrong, it's just a bundle of opinions,
          This is a common criticism, and it's well-known to be flawed in three big ways: First, there are many plausible objective moral theories compatible with atheism; second, there are no plausible objective moral theories which depend on the existence of God; and third, there is no good evidence that objective morality exists anyway.

          Also if Atheists don't believe in judgement day, then they have to accept that if they get done over and the culprit doesn't get caught, they got away there is no justice.
          Justice only makes sense in a social setting. The most obvious reason to have a justice system is to enforce and/or encourage good behavior. It is not an end in itself, as if it would help to tack on some kind of final torment in an afterlife, for people who committed crimes in this life.

          In other words, the lack of a final punishment is actually a good thing, not bad.

          But if you don't like that idea, well, that's life. Reality isn't always peaches and roses.

          Atheists present themselves as logical, but they don't like the logical consequences of their disbelief,
          If you believe in God because you find His nonexistence distasteful or unlikable, that's called wishful thinking. I'm sure you know that.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

            Originally posted by hatsoff View Post
            This is a common criticism, and it's well-known to be flawed in three big ways: First, there are many plausible objective moral theories compatible with atheism; second, there are no plausible objective moral theories which depend on the existence of God; and third, there is no good evidence that objective morality exists anyway.



            Justice only makes sense in a social setting. The most obvious reason to have a justice system is to enforce and/or encourage good behavior. It is not an end in itself, as if it would help to tack on some kind of final torment in an afterlife, for people who committed crimes in this life.

            In other words, the lack of a final punishment is actually a good thing, not bad.

            But if you don't like that idea, well, that's life. Reality isn't always peaches and roses.



            If you believe in God because you find His nonexistence distasteful or unlikable, that's called wishful thinking. I'm sure you know that.
            I'm not talking about my belief,

            I'm talking about the fact that you guys won't accept the fact that if someone knifed & robbed you, and long arm of the law wasn't long enough to catch him,

            It's "tough luck"

            Assuming as you do, God doesn't exist and that there is no accountability unless you get caught.

            Atheists often have a mental breakdown and start attacking Islam or other Religions because they can't accept the logical consequences of their disbelief.
            http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

            "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

            – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

            Comment


              #21
              Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

              Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
              I'm not talking about my belief,

              I'm talking about the fact that you guys won't accept the fact that if someone knifed & robbed you, and long arm of the law wasn't long enough to catch him,

              It's "tough luck"

              Assuming as you do, God doesn't exist and that there is no accountability unless you get caught.
              I wouldn't phrase it quite like that, but sure, I guess that's true enough. Some people do, in fact, get away with murder. Literally. And for the victim, I agree, it's just tough luck. Life stinks sometimes, and to insist otherwise is just wishful thinking.

              Why do you think atheists deny this? Do you think it poses some kind of problem for atheism?

              Comment


                #22
                Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                Originally posted by hatsoff View Post
                I wouldn't phrase it quite like that, but sure, I guess that's true enough. Some people do, in fact, get away with murder. Literally. And for the victim, I agree, it's just tough luck. Life stinks sometimes, and to insist otherwise is just wishful thinking.

                Why do you think atheists deny this? Do you think it poses some kind of problem for atheism?
                It's just tough luck, for all those rape victims, Pedo victims and those who were murdered, if the culprit doesn't get caught,

                How do you live like that?

                So if you get run over and the culprit does a hit and run, and the police fail to find him,

                It's "tough luck" he got away,

                What a pathetic and depressing way to live.

                Yes it poses a problem for Atheists due to the very consequences of their disbelief.

                Another absurdity is that an Atheists definition of right and wrong is subjective, it's just a bundle of opinions,
                Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 05-11-17, 01:26 AM.
                http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                  Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                  It's just tough luck, for all those rape victims, Pedo victims and those who were murdered, if the culprit doesn't get caught,

                  How do you live like that?

                  So if you get run over and the culprit does a hit and run, and the police fail to find him,

                  It's "tough luck" he got away,

                  What a pathetic and depressing way to live.
                  That's life, man. It stinks sometimes, but we do the best we can to get along. It doesn't do any good to pretend that the world is better than it really is.

                  Yes it poses a problem for Atheists due to the very consequences of their disbelief.
                  What problematic consequences are those?

                  Another absurdity is that an Atheists definition of right and wrong is subjective, it's just a bundle of opinions,
                  I already responded to this criticism here. Allow me to copy-paste:

                  Originally posted by hatsoff View Post
                  This is a common criticism, and it's well-known to be flawed in three big ways: First, there are many plausible objective moral theories compatible with atheism; second, there are no plausible objective moral theories which depend on the existence of God; and third, there is no good evidence that objective morality exists anyway.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                    Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                    Hypocritical claims. Once again, you absolve adults who corrupt the earth with shirk, greed and war and who cause children to suffer from diseases like cholera which is directly tie to contaminated waters with human biowaste.

                    Just "human endeavors"? Mufasaduun.
                    The recent cholera outbreak in Haiti was tied to UN 'peacekeepers' arrogantly dumping their biowaste into drinking water sources.

                    The despicable, arrogant lying rebellion against Allah illustrated on this thread shows what "kafir" truly means.
                    And why did god invent cholera then, if he knew that UN 'peacekeepers' would arrogantly dump their biowaste into drinking water sources? Why didn't god let humans kniw cholera was spread by people their biowaste into drinking water sources rather than letting them work it out over several thousand years?


                    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                    Your a slave to your desires.

                    We are slaves to Allah عز و جل the one who is most Just.

                    The tough luck argument is a logical consequence of Atheists disbelief, which Atheists don't like unfortunately.
                    You mean allah didn't know or intend babies to suffer and die, but it just happened?

                    As a Muslim, we don't believe in luck, nor on the screwed up mentality, that you only get your commuppance if you get caught, otherwise you got away with it.
                    Doesn't the muslim belief that god knows everything mean that everybody gets caught and gets their "commuppance"? What they get caught for and whether the "commuppance" is just is another matter.

                    Such a mentality does not exist amongst Muslims because we believe nobody he's away scott free from committing Heinous crimes.
                    Often allegedly heinous alleged crimes. On the other hand, really heinous real crimes, if done for the right reasons, are excused.

                    Your dirty mentality isn't shared amongst the Muslimeen, we believe Allah عز و جل only wants good for us, we don't commit Evil and try and pass the buck shamelessly as you have done here

                    It's no wonder the moral compass of the Kuffar is completely Haywire.
                    And - as it's the will of allah that I do it - do I have any choice about committing evil and trying to pass the buck shamelessly? I'd be going against Allah's will if I tried to stop it.
                    Last edited by Sceptic; 05-11-17, 05:40 AM.

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                      #25
                      Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                      ....

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                        Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                        And why did god invent cholera then, if he knew that UN 'peacekeepers' would arrogantly dump their biowaste into drinking water sources? Why didn't god let humans kniw cholera was spread by people their biowaste into drinking water sources rather than letting them work it out over several thousand years?
                        if X didn't happen for atheists , then God would exist.

                        Thats the lamest argument one has to respond to , if X doesn;t happen , you'd still be whining about why Y happens and why God hasn't stopped it.



                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                          Originally posted by hatsoff View Post
                          I didn't detect any emotionalism in Sceptic's comment. Sometimes I think it's easy for believers to forget that, from the perspective of an unbeliever, God is just a character in a story. We get no more emotional about God's alleged crimes than about the crimes committed by Sauron from Lord of the Rings.
                          Sceptic outrageously alleges Allah tortures children, and you compare Allah AWJ, the Lord of the Worlds, with Sauron. In just a few words, you prove my points that kufr is arrogant, despicable, rebellious degradation.

                          As for believers empathizing with kufr:

                          Kufr (unbelief) is not equivalent to Iman (belief). The perspective of kufr is not an equivalent alternative.
                          32:18
                          Is then the man who believes no better than the man who is rebellious and wicked? Not equal are they
                          "Unbelief", as you call it, is described in Islam as "thulm" against oneself- tyranny of oneself, "rebellion" against Allah. When Allah commands, the believers say "we hear and we obey" (2:285), and the disbelievers say "we hear and we rebel" (2:93).

                          "Unbelief" is tyranny of oneself such that on the Day, your body, your limbs, your eyes, your hands, your mouth, your tongue, will testify against you.





                          This isn't a dichotomy where blame can only rest on one person or group. Rather, blame can be shared. To say that God is to blame is not to deny that the Yemenis are also to blame. It could well be the case that they are all to blame.[/QUOTE]

                          Your rationale doesn't matter. It is irrelevant what you accuse, as you are no source of moral or any other authority. You don't make accusations against Allah, you merely show the world your evil and rebelliousness, like Iblees.

                          There really is no discussion with your type. You come to a Muslim forum and compare the Creator of the universe, the All Merciful, the All Powerful, Lord of the Worlds, with a pathetic man made demonic fictional character from a book and movie, Sauron?


                          This reflects the kind of spite and denigration you and yours bring to the world. You have worsened in your kufr until you have become TAGHUT. Look it up. Taghut, like Firaun- Pharoah, like Nimrod, like the worst of mankind. You think you are like gods on earth, but really, Allah AWJ allows you to continue to worsen as your hearts desire until He determines.

                          Indeed, the worst of creation.
                          Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
                          " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

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                            #28
                            Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                            Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                            You mean allah didn't know or intend babies to suffer and die, but it just happened?
                            This is typical of Dirty Atheists, instead of acknowledging the consequences of their disbelief, they try and blame Allah عز و جل

                            There is nothing that Allah عز و جل does not know,
                            http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                            "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                            – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                              Originally posted by noobz View Post
                              if X didn't happen for atheists , then God would exist.

                              Thats the lamest argument one has to respond to , if X doesn;t happen , you'd still be whining about why Y happens and why God hasn't stopped it.
                              Where did I argue "if X didn't happen...then God would exist."? I'd say If X happens, it's evidence that a benevolent all-knowing all-powerful god doesn't exist." My argument isn't "Why does Y happen and why hasn't god stopped it?" but "Why does Y happen and why did god start it?" and the same applies to Z, A, B...


                              Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                              This is typical of Dirty Atheists, instead of acknowledging the consequences of their disbelief, they try and blame Allah عز و جل
                              How is babies suffering and dying a consequence of my disbelief?
                              There is nothing that Allah عز و جل does not know,
                              Precisely.
                              Last edited by Sceptic; 05-11-17, 08:39 PM.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

                                Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                                Where did I argue "if X didn't happen...then God would exist."? I'd say If X happens, it's evidence that a benevolent all-knowing all-powerful god doesn't exist." My argument isn't "Why does Y happen and why hasn't god stopped it?" but "Why does Y happen and why did god start it?" and the same applies to Z, A, B...


                                How is babies suffering and dying a consequence of my disbelief?Precisely.
                                rickey gervais also wonders why babies are born and why he hates them and why god hasn't made people infertile to stop population explosion.

                                lame argument , you say why Y happens , another says why does Y^2 happen.

                                In the end , its all about why why X , Y and Z happens. Just show me all the answers so i can talk a walk in this life without any tests and show my loyalty.



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