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Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

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    Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

    It is obvious that The Torah Allah sent to Bani Isra'il was changed and is no longer in it's orginal format. I'm just curious what's in the Torah and what Jews believe in.

    #2
    Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

    Where do you find the torah...
    There is Talmud ......but original Torah dont exist anymore in my view

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

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      #3
      Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

      Originally posted by muzzybee View Post
      Where do you find the torah...
      There is Talmud ......but original Torah dont exist anymore in my view
      There is also Torah which was collected and compiled by Ezra.

      The Talmud itself is separate from this. The Talmud consists of two parts: The Misrah Torah (Oral torah) and Gemarah (commentary on misrah torah).

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        #4
        Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

        Originally posted by Spicen View Post
        There is also Torah which was collected and compiled by Ezra.

        The Talmud itself is separate from this. The Talmud consists of two parts: The Misrah Torah (Oral torah) and Gemarah (commentary on misrah torah).
        Oh

        Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

        **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

        Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

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          #5
          Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

          When umar ra was reading the torah the prophet:saw: got angry and told him not to read it

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            #6
            Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

            how do we know the torah was changed? if i remember correctly, the verses in the quran are about injeel, no? and when did the torah change? because the following hadith apparently says that the torah was there till the prophet pbuh's time.

            Narrated Ibn `Umar:
            A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet (ﷺ) asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." `Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn `Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.
            bukhari 6819

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              #7
              Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

              Originally posted by hassan246 View Post
              It is obvious that The Torah Allah sent to Bani Isra'il was changed and is no longer in it's orginal format. I'm just curious what's in the Torah and what Jews believe in.
              There is indeed extensive proof for substantive scribal interpolation and textual damage to the original Christian Gospels, but such proof does not exist for the Jewish Torah.

              Below a discussion on exactly this claim on the Judaic stack exchange: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/36687/has-the-torah-been-changed-over-the-ages

              Funnily, they also refer to the same hadith in which the prophet, may he rest in peace, pronounces a ruling concerning the adulterous jew and jewess, by having the applicable verse lifted straight from the Torah.

              There are issues with corrupted spelling, though:

              He defends the thesis that the texts did suffer some issues in the era of the Judges, and that Jewish authorities have often discussed these issues and their relationship to various special dots and modified letters in the traditional scribal text.

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                #8
                Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                Originally posted by pronorah View Post
                There is indeed extensive proof for substantive scribal interpolation and textual damage to the original Christian Gospels, but such proof does not exist for the Jewish Torah.

                Below a discussion on exactly this claim on the Judaic stack exchange: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/36687/has-the-torah-been-changed-over-the-ages

                Funnily, they also refer to the same hadith in which the prophet, may he rest in peace, pronounces a ruling concerning the adulterous jew and jewess, by having the applicable verse lifted straight from the Torah.

                There are issues with corrupted spelling, though:

                He defends the thesis that the texts did suffer some issues in the era of the Judges, and that Jewish authorities have often discussed these issues and their relationship to various special dots and modified letters in the traditional scribal text.
                i was once debating an atheist and he brought this issue up. got me thinking, to be honest. but there are a few explanations i have. it is possible that the torah was not changed in theology or law but changed in stories and examples. it is also possible, and probably true, that some parts of the torah were lost. i dont think it changed nearly as badly as the gospels.

                thanks for the link.
                Last edited by Muhaqqiq; 08-09-17, 10:27 AM.

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                  #9
                  Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                  Originally posted by Muhaqqiq View Post
                  how do we know the torah was changed? if i remember correctly, the verses in the quran are about injeel, no? and when did the torah change? because the following hadith apparently says that the torah was there till the prophet pbuh's time.

                  Narrated Ibn `Umar:
                  A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet (ﷺ) asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." `Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn `Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.
                  bukhari 6819
                  Both books are corrupted.
                  Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                  How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                  Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

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                    #10
                    Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                    Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                    Both books are corrupted.
                    was asking for the daleel that the torah is corrupted brother. and an explanation for the hadith that i quoted.

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                      #11
                      Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                      Originally posted by Muhaqqiq View Post
                      was asking for the daleel that the torah is corrupted brother. and an explanation for the hadith that i quoted.
                      http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/ev...ish_scriptures
                      Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                      How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                      Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

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                        #12
                        Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                        jazakallahu khaira brother. the link is very good.

                        can you or someone else explain the hadith in light of the fact that the torah was indeed changed?

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                          #13
                          Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                          Originally posted by Muhaqqiq View Post
                          was asking for the daleel that the torah is corrupted brother. and an explanation for the hadith that i quoted.
                          Some stories of the Genesis do match with hadiths.

                          And I have heard the argument that when the Allah mentions that jews brought sayings which they say are from the Torah but actually are not from the Torah, the Quran is referencing to the Misrah Torah(Oral Torah)/Talmud.

                          The jews believe that the Misrah Torah (Oral torah) is also part of the actual torah.

                          Saying that some passages including the one addressing Isaac (A) and not Ishmael(A) as the sacrifice are jewish changes. Infact, in Genesis Moses (A) mentions that he fears the ink of scholars could change the scripture. That's why he kept a stone tablet and a copy of the scripture in a chest (?) which I think is the Ark of the Covenant(?) Not sure though.

                          Due to some of these reasons I no longer make fun of or mock passages of the Torah, may Allah forgive me for my errors.

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                            #14
                            Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                            [MENTION=145385]Muhaqqiq[/MENTION] - pronorah is right about the spelling.

                            What Torah you have now is known as Masoretic texts. The texts had various spelling mistakes which had to be corrected by the Masoretic rabbis in the 9th/10th century. These rabbis were more or less very careful when trying to 'fix' these mistakes.

                            Oh I forgot to mention, you should discard the Book of Esther because it actually is 100% fiction.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Is reading the Torah forbidden in Islam?

                              Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                              Some stories of the Genesis do match with hadiths.

                              And I have heard the argument that when the Allah mentions that jews brought sayings which they say are from the Torah but actually are not from the Torah, the Quran is referencing to the Misrah Torah(Oral Torah)/Talmud.

                              The jews believe that the Misrah Torah (Oral torah) is also part of the actual torah.

                              Saying that some passages including the one addressing Isaac (A) and not Ishmael(A) as the sacrifice are jewish changes. Infact, in Genesis Moses (A) mentions that he fears the ink of scholars could change the scripture. That's why he kept a stone tablet and a copy of the scripture in a chest (?) which I think is the Ark of the Covenant(?) Not sure though.

                              Due to some of these reasons I no longer make fun of or mock passages of the Torah, may Allah forgive me for my errors.
                              i wasnt that concerned about what changed. i only wanted to know whether the changes did take place or not. and the link provided by the brother was more than enough in providing evidence for tahreef. thanks for further explanation though.

                              what i am looking for now is an explanation for the hadith where the prophet pbuh asked the jews what was in the torah. and the torah was actually brought to him.

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