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    Regarding Western orientalists...

    I was looking for some books about Islamic history, the topic I have started to be interested in, and I have found the introductory book by some Western orientalist. Lured by the price I bought an e-book and started to read. The author in very first chapters discussed the credibility of basic Muslim sources, that is Quran and hadiths – in his opinion, based on many other books produced by orientalists, both are prepared at eighth and ninth centuries, so they can’t show a true picture about origins of Islam. There were other horrible biases and lies, like that of Satanic Verses and others. For example, campaigns of Prophet Muhammad were considered as aggressive attacks due to gain political power.

    I know lots of very good books about defending our Faith but their lies are still very popular and authors of that books are very respected due to their academic degrees. I have always been thinking they could speak things they are sure about and we could believe them, as they have devoted to their work all of their lives. So why do they write such lies, half-truths, and biases? Forgive me, but I am very shocked.

    #2
    Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

    When you reject the truth then what are you left with except falsehood...?

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

      Originally posted by YoungMuslimah78 View Post
      I was looking for some books about Islamic history, the topic I have started to be interested in, and I have found the introductory book by some Western orientalist. Lured by the price I bought an e-book and started to read. The author in very first chapters discussed the credibility of basic Muslim sources, that is Quran and hadiths – in his opinion, based on many other books produced by orientalists, both are prepared at eighth and ninth centuries, so they can’t show a true picture about origins of Islam. There were other horrible biases and lies, like that of Satanic Verses and others. For example, campaigns of Prophet Muhammad were considered as aggressive attacks due to gain political power.

      I know lots of very good books about defending our Faith but their lies are still very popular and authors of that books are very respected due to their academic degrees. I have always been thinking they could speak things they are sure about and we could believe them, as they have devoted to their work all of their lives. So why do they write such lies, half-truths, and biases? Forgive me, but I am very shocked.
      Which book? Was it written or based on the work of Patricia Crone (what a name)?

      The idea of dismissing all islamic sources as unreliable and using all hostile non-muslim sources as "authentic" source method was first used by her I think.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

        Originally posted by Spicen View Post
        Which book? Was it written or based on the work of Patricia Crone (what a name)?

        The idea of dismissing all islamic sources as unreliable and using all hostile non-muslim sources as "authentic" source method was first used by her I think.
        I don't remember very clearly, but probably yes (I have deleted the book from my laptop and cleared the bin). I am not sure if she wasn't first but the method based on rejecting Islamic sources gets more and more popular.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

          Originally posted by YoungMuslimah78 View Post
          I don't remember very clearly, but probably yes (I have deleted the book from my laptop and cleared the bin). I am not sure if she wasn't first but the method based on rejecting Islamic sources gets more and more popular.
          On the last sentence:

          It's not possible to change people's mind, just let them read or believe what they want.

          It's kind of similar to how these so-called scholars are trying to prove that Isa(A) never existed. Infact the majority of "scholars" have actuallty reached a conclusion regarding this if I'm not wrong.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

            Islamic Awareness has refuted much of the Orientalist claims

            They only "study" Islam to attack it

            The strategy is to attack everything
            How dare they challenge me with their primitive skills? They're just as good as dead

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

              Originally posted by YoungMuslimah78 View Post
              I was looking for some books about Islamic history, the topic I have started to be interested in, and I have found the introductory book by some Western orientalist. Lured by the price I bought an e-book and started to read. The author in very first chapters discussed the credibility of basic Muslim sources, that is Quran and hadiths – in his opinion, based on many other books produced by orientalists, both are prepared at eighth and ninth centuries, so they can’t show a true picture about origins of Islam. There were other horrible biases and lies, like that of Satanic Verses and others. For example, campaigns of Prophet Muhammad were considered as aggressive attacks due to gain political power.

              I know lots of very good books about defending our Faith but their lies are still very popular and authors of that books are very respected due to their academic degrees. I have always been thinking they could speak things they are sure about and we could believe them, as they have devoted to their work all of their lives. So why do they write such lies, half-truths, and biases? Forgive me, but I am very shocked.
              Try reading ‘No God But God: The Origins, Evolution and Future of Islam’ by Reza Aslan. Its meant to be read as a history novel book and thus, like all novels, can be quite theatrical but it does give a pretty good insight of Islam and the societies and cultures of pre and post Revelation of the Quran to Prophet Muhammad SAW. It also highlights the hardships, misconceptions and rejections that the Prophet SAW faced in conveying God’s Final Revelation to the people.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                Originally posted by JerryMyers View Post
                Try reading ‘No God But God: The Origins, Evolution and Future of Islam’ by Reza Aslan. Its meant to be read as a history novel book and thus, like all novels, can be quite theatrical but it does give a pretty good insight of Islam and the societies and cultures of pre and post Revelation of the Quran to Prophet Muhammad SAW. It also highlights the hardships, misconceptions and rejections that the Prophet SAW faced in conveying God’s Final Revelation to the people.
                Stay away from Reza Aslan. He is not reliable at all when it comes to Islam.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                  Stay away from Reza Aslan. He is not reliable at all when it comes to Islam.
                  I heard of that too. In fact, I personally don’t think Reza Aslan is a true practicing Muslim eventho' he said he's now a Muslim !! BUT, have you read that particular book ?? At the end of the day, any book you read about Islam or Prophet Muhammad SAW, you have to apply your logical validation of that book with the Quran and authentic hadiths. If what is written is clearly against the Quran, then you should reject it BUT if it support the Quran, then you should accept it, even if its written by non-Muslims.

                  I don’t reject books based on their authors but I reject what was written if they are against the teaching of the Quran and authentic hadiths.

                  Salam.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                    Originally posted by JerryMyers View Post
                    I heard of that too. In fact, I personally don’t think Reza Aslan is a true practicing Muslim eventho' he said he's now a Muslim !! BUT, have you read that particular book ?? At the end of the day, any book you read about Islam or Prophet Muhammad SAW, you have to apply your logical validation of that book with the Quran and authentic hadiths. If what is written is clearly against the Quran, then you should reject it BUT if it support the Quran, then you should accept it, even if its written by non-Muslims.

                    I don’t reject books based on their authors but I reject what was written if they are against the teaching of the Quran and authentic hadiths.

                    Salam.
                    How can you trust someone with the truth if you doubt they follow or even believe in that truth?

                    If you are blessed with the knowledge and ability to read Qur'an and ahadeeth at that level then you don't really need any other books anyway.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      How can you trust someone with the truth if you doubt they follow or even believe in that truth?
                      Its not a question of trust but it’s a question of what he said or wrote.

                      As I said before if he said or wrote something which agrees with the Quran, why should I reject with what he said or wrote ??

                      Similarly, I don’t trust the Bible because its now a Book of truths and lies BUT that does not mean I should deny the verses in the Bible that support the Quran, now should I ?? Else, how can I debate with the Christians effectively if I don’t even accept the verses in their scriptures that agree with the Quran ?

                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      If you are blessed with the knowledge and ability to read Qur'an and ahadeeth at that level then you don't really need any other books anyway.
                      Well, I wouldn’t say that. Even if someone is blessed with the knowledge and ability to read and understand Qur'an and ahadeeth (not saying I am), that does not mean he/she don’t need to read any other books on Islam as different books will open up your mind in different ways.

                      Similarly, you cannot say you have understood the Quran because you have read the whole Quran once as the more you revise the Quran, the more you learn about the truth of Allah.

                      Salam.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                        Originally posted by JerryMyers View Post
                        Its not a question of trust but it’s a question of what he said or wrote.

                        As I said before if he said or wrote something which agrees with the Quran, why should I reject with what he said or wrote ??

                        Similarly, I don’t trust the Bible because its now a Book of truths and lies BUT that does not mean I should deny the verses in the Bible that support the Quran, now should I ?? Else, how can I debate with the Christians effectively if I don’t even accept the verses in their scriptures that agree with the Quran ?...
                        It is a question of trust. You learn from people you trust - you don't learn 'directly' until you are competent enough. If you're reading up on subject as a layman then by default you are not competent enough to go directly to the sources.

                        ...Well, I wouldn’t say that. Even if someone is blessed with the knowledge and ability to read and understand Qur'an and ahadeeth (not saying I am), that does not mean he/she don’t need to read any other books on Islam as different books will open up your mind in different ways...
                        Yes, but we are talking about learning Islam and history from non-Muslims. Why would a student of knowledge go to a non-Muslim to learn about Islam? Everything would have to be cross-checked so there'd be no point.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                          It is a question of trust. You learn from people you trust - you don't learn 'directly' until you are competent enough. If you're reading up on subject as a layman then by default you are not competent enough to go directly to the sources.

                          Yes, but we are talking about learning Islam and history from non-Muslims. Why would a student of knowledge go to a non-Muslim to learn about Islam? Everything would have to be cross-checked so there'd be no point.
                          I think you misunderstood my point. I am NOT saying you should seek Islamic knowledge primarily from non-Muslims BUT I am saying apart from learning and gaining Quranic and Islamic knowledge from the Muslim Quran experts and Islamic scholars, which, by the way, should be your PRIMARY sources of knowledge, you should also not ignore other sources of Islamic knowledge too, even if it was written by non-Muslims as long as they did not contradict the Quran.

                          Most of the Islamic documents on Islamic history, origin, etc are written by those (mainly Muslims and few non-Muslims) who are professionals in their works and they are solely interested in the facts. Of course, there are those who wrote to mislead the masses about Islam but, you can spot them just after reading a few pages of their works.

                          The key criteria is, as you correctly pointed out, everything have to be crossed-checked. Even if that information came from a Muslim source, it does not mean it’s 100% Quran or authentic hadiths verified, as nowadays, there are too many Muslim experts and scholars !

                          As for Reza Aslan’s book ‘No God But God: The Origins, Evolution and Future of Islam’, I find it, in general, a good read as apart from the insights, it does address a lot of the ‘points’ that anti-Islam groups like to bring up to degrade Islam and our Prophet Muhammad SAW. Then again, its my personal take and not meant to replace those true Islamic sources of knowledge.

                          Salam.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                            Non-Muslims can never be a source for knowledge on Islam. The fact that everything would have to be checked reflects the reason why.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Regarding Western orientalists...

                              Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                              On the last sentence:

                              It's not possible to change people's mind, just let them read or believe what they want.

                              It's kind of similar to how these so-called scholars are trying to prove that Isa(A) never existed. Infact the majority of "scholars" have actuallty reached a conclusion regarding this if I'm not wrong.
                              Yes. It is impossible to change their way of thinking. For some of them, there is no holiness - they only trust to their scientific methods. According to these "scholars" who claim that Isa (A) never existed, they are atheists and attack religion in general. I don't know if the majority of them reached any conclusion, to be honest, just because there is strong Catholic (and Christan in general) opposition to be found. What is interesting, many of Catholic priests and theologians are historians too, and they even created "biblical archeology" based on finds in Israel.

                              Originally posted by Talwaar View Post
                              Islamic Awareness has refuted much of the Orientalist claims

                              They only "study" Islam to attack it

                              The strategy is to attack everything
                              This is true. But I am curious why. Firstly, they have spent all of their lives at studying it. Secondly, what business have they in attack everything, especially Islam?

                              Comment

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