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    the virgin mary pbuh

    asalamu alaikum - peace be upon you

    before jesus Christ was born or created by the almighty creator allah who creates out of nothing, mary pbuh worshiped allah in Arabic, ella in Hebrew, and eli in Aramaic. she prostrated to allah both before the birth of jesus pbuh and after his birth. as did zaccahriah and his family and moses. all the other prophets and their respective peoples and the jews worshiped the one god allah without associating partners to him, neither of son, daughter, animals or idols or any other human being or anything from nature i.e plants, sun, rivers, trees etc.

    the prophet Muhammad pbuh came to rectify people where they went astray with associating partners to allah, and called to the worship of one god only, allah, as did jesus Christ before him, and all the prophets came with the same message..

    wasalam

    peace be upon you.
    Last edited by cloud9; 28-04-17, 06:02 AM.

    #2
    Re: the virgin mary pbuh

    asalamu alaikum - peace be upon you

    who did the virgin mary pbuh worship when jesus Christ was not even created. she worshiped allah and continued to worship allah even after the birth of jesus Christ, she did not start worshiping her baby that she gave birth to.

    the prophet Muhammad pbuh came with the quran, the shariah, the sunnat, and the hadith to guide people to the completed and perfected religion of allah i.e islam.

    wasalam

    peace be upon you
    Last edited by cloud9; 28-04-17, 06:15 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: the virgin mary pbuh

      Well, the Bible doesn't explicitly say the Blessed Virgin Mary worshiped Jesus, however, there are accounts of others. Jesus actually was worshiped as a baby/child when the Magi came to visit him for example.

      "And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh." - Mathew 2:11

      His disciples also worshiped him in a few instances.

      "And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, 'Truly you are the Son of God.'" - Matthew 14:33

      "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted." - Matthew 28:17

      Even strangers who Jesus healed worshiped him.

      "He said, ‘Lord, I believe.’ And he worshiped him." - John 9:38

      The women who discovered him at his empty tomb worshiped him.

      "Suddenly Jesus met them and said, ‘Greetings!’ And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him." - Matthew 28:9

      Interestingly enough, when Cornelius, the first gentile convert, worshiped the apostle Peter, he objected to this.

      "As Peter entered his home, Cornelius fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter made him get up. 'Stand up,' he said, 'I am only a man myself.'" - Acts 10:25

      Yet Jesus never objected to anyone when they worshiped him.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: the virgin mary pbuh

        asalamu aalaikum - peace be with you

        Muhammad pbuh came to guide people who went astray back to the oneness of allah, without associating partners with him, neither son, daughter, idol, plant, tree, river or anything else that comes from nature or any other human being or created thing by man or the creator. jesus Christ was created, he was dependent and had needs like food and drink etc.etc. if allah had partners then each partner of his would champion his own creation.

        Muhammad pbuh came with the same message as jesus Christ, moses, Abraham and all the other prophets peace be upon them all. except he came to complete and perfect the continuation of the religion of all the prophets i.e islam with the shariah, quran, hadith and sunnat.

        jesus Christ pbuh did not worship the virgin mary pbuh as the mother of god and mary pbuh did not worship jesus Christ pbuh, they both worshiped allah the creator of the heavens and the earth. jesus Christ pbuh and the mary pbuh did not worship each other.

        wasalam

        peace be with you
        Last edited by cloud9; 28-04-17, 03:52 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: the virgin mary pbuh

          asalmu alaikum - peace be with you

          jesus Christ pbuh washed and prostrated to his creator, he did not worship himself, and if jesus Christ pbuh was god and he was the one to be worshipped than why would he need to worship anyone else. jesus Christ pbuh said worship my lord who is your lord, he did not say worship me i.e himself jesus Christ pbuh.

          wasalam - peace be upon you

          Comment


            #6
            Re: the virgin mary pbuh

            Originally posted by thephilosopher8 View Post
            Well, the Bible doesn't explicitly say the Blessed Virgin Mary worshiped Jesus, however, there are accounts of others. Jesus actually was worshiped as a baby/child when the Magi came to visit him for example.

            "And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh." - Mathew 2:11

            His disciples also worshiped him in a few instances.

            "And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, 'Truly you are the Son of God.'" - Matthew 14:33

            "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted." - Matthew 28:17

            Even strangers who Jesus healed worshiped him.

            "He said, ‘Lord, I believe.’ And he worshiped him." - John 9:38

            The women who discovered him at his empty tomb worshiped him.

            "Suddenly Jesus met them and said, ‘Greetings!’ And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him." - Matthew 28:9

            Interestingly enough, when Cornelius, the first gentile convert, worshiped the apostle Peter, he objected to this.

            "As Peter entered his home, Cornelius fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter made him get up. 'Stand up,' he said, 'I am only a man myself.'" - Acts 10:25

            Yet Jesus never objected to anyone when they worshiped him.
            The only reason why Jesus, in his lifetime on earth, never object to anyone when they “worshiped” him is because they NEVER worship him as a God but they are merely ‘worshiping’ him as a mark of respect to an honorable rabbi or teacher, which is what Jesus was.

            The English Bible you have today are translated from the Greek or Hebrew Bibles in which was originally written. ‘Worship’ was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’ or ‘prosekynesan’ and from the Hebrew word ‘shachah’.

            The Greek word 'proskuneo' (Strong’s number 4352) comes from the Greek words pros, “to” or “toward,” and kuneo, “to kiss.” It literally means to kiss the hand to (toward) someone in token of reverence, and among the Orientals, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence.

            The Hebrew word 'shachah' (Strong’s number 7812) is used of bowing or prostrating oneself, often before a superior eg. a King.

            All the words ‘worship’ in the verses you quoted was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo / prosekynesan’ meaning a mark of respect to someone in token of reverence and NOT worshiping a God.

            Similarly, in Acts 10:25, Cornelius was giving honorable respect to Peter who did not see himself worthy of such respect as he felt he too was just an ordinary man, not a rabbi like Jesus.

            Jesus made it very clear who you should worship when he said “You SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD and Him ONLY shall you serve” – Matthew 4:10.

            So, which part of Matthew 4:10 the Christians today do not understand ??

            Comment


              #7
              Re: the virgin mary pbuh

              asalamu alaikum - peace be with you

              they never worshiped jesus Christ pbuh but as a mark of respect they kissed and anointed his feet. the bible says you shall worship the lord your god as one ellah or elaha in the gospel in Aramaic, alaha in the gospel in syriac, eloha in the torah, alo in the hindu vedhas and allah in the quran. the creater of jesus Christ pbuh and all the universe who can create something out of nothing.

              wasalam
              Last edited by cloud9; 15-06-17, 12:21 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: the virgin mary pbuh

                Originally posted by JerryMyers View Post
                The only reason why Jesus, in his lifetime on earth, never object to anyone when they “worshiped” him is because they NEVER worship him as a God but they are merely ‘worshiping’ him as a mark of respect to an honorable rabbi or teacher, which is what Jesus was.

                The English Bible you have today are translated from the Greek or Hebrew Bibles in which was originally written. ‘Worship’ was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’ or ‘prosekynesan’ and from the Hebrew word ‘shachah’.

                The Greek word 'proskuneo' (Strong’s number 4352) comes from the Greek words pros, “to” or “toward,” and kuneo, “to kiss.” It literally means to kiss the hand to (toward) someone in token of reverence, and among the Orientals, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence.

                The Hebrew word 'shachah' (Strong’s number 7812) is used of bowing or prostrating oneself, often before a superior eg. a King.

                All the words ‘worship’ in the verses you quoted was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo / prosekynesan’ meaning a mark of respect to someone in token of reverence and NOT worshiping a God.

                Similarly, in Acts 10:25, Cornelius was giving honorable respect to Peter who did not see himself worthy of such respect as he felt he too was just an ordinary man, not a rabbi like Jesus.

                Jesus made it very clear who you should worship when he said “You SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD and Him ONLY shall you serve” – Matthew 4:10.

                So, which part of Matthew 4:10 the Christians today do not understand ??
                Were teachers, Rabbi's ever worshipped? I found an interesting article on the word "Proskuneo" bowing down in respect or worship. One needs to apply context to understand weather it was actual worship or not, seeing as the word is used in various instances. I know the article is a bit long, the rest can be found on the link provided. I thought the author had research quite thoroughly and put his point across quite well. Hope you give it a read. If Jesus was worshipped, and there are numerous Bible verses that claim He was, and Jesus accepted worship, which obviously as a prophet He would have known was wrong, yet He never once rebuked those that offered Him worship. It does not in any way negate Matthew 4:10 because God is worshipped and only God is served.

                An observation at this point was that we simply couldn't leave the issue here. For one reason, the point that my caller made really didn't solve anything. He offered an alternative explanation, he didn't offer an argument. He said that Jesus wasn't worshipped, but He was merely bowed down to like the bowing down (which is obviously not worship) recorded in Revelation. Now, that's not an argument; that's an assertion. What he didn't do was offer evidence why he believed that Jesus was being bowed down to and not worshipped in the same way as the word is used in other passages to denote worship of God.

                Now words are equivocal; words by themselves can mean different things. But in context they are univocal, they are usually unambiguous. The context helps narrow and refine the focus of a particular meaning so that in many cases the meaning cannot be missed. The context always determines the meaning.

                The second observation is that nothing really had been affirmed about the use of the word proskuneo . The only thing established was the fact that the use of this word in reference to Christ doesn't necessarily and automatically mean men worshipped Him. So it remains for us to solve the problem, "What does proskuneo mean when it is applied to Jesus? How do we go about solving this problem?" I'm going to show you in detail how to answer this kind of question.

                Keep in mind our goal. Our goal is to determine the meaning of a word in its particular context. Now words are equivocal; words by themselves can mean different things. But in context they are univocal, they are usually unambiguous. The context helps narrow and refine the focus of a particular meaning so that in many cases the meaning cannot be missed. The context always determines the meaning. So we're faced with the question, what clues, if any, does the context give us about this word proskuneo as it relates to the person of Jesus Christ.

                Of course to know the context we have to know what the words are and where the words are located and here is where a couple of very useful tools come into play. You need two things, basically. First, you need an exhaustive concordance. Strong's Concordance is one example. New American Standard Concordance is another. These concordances list where particular words are used in the text. They're keyed to the English translation so you won't get every place where the word proskuneo is used, you will get places it is translated into English as "worship." But other times it is translated as "bow down." That won't show up under "worship," you have to look under "bow down."

                How can you find every place in the New Testament that a particular Greek word is used so that you can examine all of the contexts and come to some conclusions about how the word is used? You do that by using a Greek concordance, a concordance that lists all the Greek words and not the English words. The Greek concordance that I use is called Wigram Englishman Concordance of the New Testament. You might say, "I don't know Greek, how can I look it up?" Now what's important about this is that this book is coded to the numbers in Strong's and the New American Standard Concordances. You can look up an English word in Strong's and find the number. You look up the same number in Wigram and it will give you the Greek word, in this case proskuneo. Then underneath proskuneo you will find every single reference of proskuneo in the New Testament, along with the way that it is translated in the King James Translation. It will enable you to look at all of the contexts so that you can see how the word is used.

                Incidentally, if you'd like to get a copy of Wigram's, I bought mine at The Christian Discount Bookstore in Whittier. The concordance will help you find the word and the corresponding number; the number will help you locate the Greek word in Wigram's.

                Having gone to Wigram's and looked up the word in question, proskuneo, I found that the word actually occurs 59 times in the New Testament. As I read through every single one of those verses--and this is what you must do if you want to do a thorough job--I realized that there were some conclusions I could draw immediately that represented a series of facts which became my working material.

                The first fact is this: Jesus said to proskuneo no one but the Father. This is in Matthew 4 and Luke 4, parallel accounts of Jesus' temptation in which Satan asks Jesus to bow down. The word used is proskuneo. We also see the angel in Revelation 19:10 and 22:9 saying, "proskuneo no one but the Father."

                Second point, there are 22 references citing the Father receiving proskuneo.

                Third point, we also see that Jesus received proskuneo (14 references).

                Fourth point, 14 additional references indicate improper proskuneo of the devil, demons, idols or the beast of Revelation. In other words, people worshipping the devil, demons, idols, falling down before them, that was not right and it was clear from the context that it wasn't right. And there are three other cases where men or angels are proskuneoed, worshipped. Cornelius fell down in Acts 10:25 and the Apostle John--surprisingly the beloved apostle himself--fell down before the angel of Revelation in 19:10, 22:8 and he was corrected for doing this.

                The fifth fact is that we also see men receiving proskuneo, the point my caller was bringing up. One time the action was forced by God (Rev 3:9). The only other time was in Matthew's Gospel (8:26), "The slave therefore falling down, prostrated himself [proskuneo] before him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will repay you everything.'" This was the story Jesus told of the man who owed much and then was forgiven that debt after being threatened with being hauled off and thrown into the debtors' prison.

                proskuneo

                The most important things about what I've done so far is that these five observations bring us to one simple conclusion and raise one simple question. The simple conclusion is that there is a type of proskuneo that is worship reserved to God alone, and there is a type of proskuneo that can be done with men--a bowing down, a courtesy, a sign of deference and respect, a tipping-the-hat, so to speak. In other words, sometimes it's okay and sometimes it isn't. What's the difference?

                Here's the simple question: How would one distinguish between bowing low to a man in respect, which is allowed, and true worship, which is forbidden? Or more specific to our task, "Did people worship Jesus or did they merely bow low in respect?" To answer that we have to go back to the text.

                As I looked at these texts, I realized something. There is a type of proskuneo that cannot be mistaken for mere courtesy. In Acts 10:25 Cornelius fell at Peter's feet and proskuneo ("worshipped") him. In Revelation 19:10 and 22:8 John fell at the angel's feet twice and proskuneo ("worshipped") him. Both Cornelius and John were seriously reprimanded. Why?

                The reason they were reprimanded is that proskuneo is generally translated to bow down but--listen closely--if a person is already down, the addition of proskuneo must indicate worship. Cornelius didn't fall at Peter's feet and then bow down, he was already down. John didn't fall down at the angel's feet and then bow down, he was already down. They both fell down and worshipped. Ergo the strong words of correction: "Worship God, not me."

                Remember the words of the devil in the temptation in Matthew 4:9? "And he said to Him, 'All these things will I give You, if You fall down and worship me.'" No possibility of mistaking that. Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.'"

                There are six different references that include the phrase "falling down" with the worship of God. In fact, the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures in Revelation were always keeling over at the foot of the throne and worshipping (proskuneo) the Father (1 Cor 14:25, Rev 4:10, 5:14, 7:11, 11:16 and 19:4).

                By the way, it isn't just falling down and worshipping that's condemned. There are twelve references where demons, idols or the beast of Revelation are merely proskuneo, worshipped (no reference to "falling down") and it's condemned. But the addition of the notion of falling down in other places merely makes the meaning impossible to miss in the context.

                Does this happen with any mere man? Only once in Matthew 18:26, "The slave therefore falling down, proskuneo ("prostrated himself") before him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will repay you everything.'" Keep in mind, though no editorial comment is made whether this is right or wrong. And let's face it, this guy is groveling for his life in the illustration that Jesus is giving. He may have been attempting to worship, we simply don't know. This doesn't tell us about the particular meaning of the word.

                Now to the point of our study: what kind of proskuneo was given to Jesus?

                The word proskuneo is used fourteen times of Jesus. There are six different times proskuneo is used of Jesus where it seems clear from the context that courtesy, respect or deference is in view. The leper came to Him and bowed down to Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean." In Matthew 9:18, "While He was saying these things to them, behold, there came a synagogue official and he bowed down before Him, saying, 'My daughter has just died; but come and lay Your hand on her, and she will live.'" In Matthew 15:25, we see a Canaanite woman whose daughter was demon-possessed bowing down before Him and saying, "Lord, help me!" In Matthew 20:20 the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Him on behalf of her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. Nothing in the context indicates that anything other than deference or respect is going on.

                There are two cases that are not clear. The demon possessed man from Gadarenes, Mark 5:6. And also Mark 15:19, the soldiers are bowing down and mocking Jesus. We don't know if they are mocking deference or mocking worship. It just doesn't say. So let's just set those aside for the time being.

                But what of the other eight references of proskuneo to Jesus? You tell me based on what we've already covered. Matthew 2:2, 8, 11, "'Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him.'...[Herod says,] 'Go and make careful search for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, that I too may come and worship Him.'...And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother and they fell down and worshiped Him...." Matthew 28:9, "And they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

                The Magi and the Christ child with the miraculous star overhead, the disciples with the risen Jesus, are not falling down and then bowing down; they're already down. They are falling down and, as the New American Bible accurately translates it, worshipping Jesus Christ.

                What of the other cases? Matthew 14:3, Peter gets out of the boat and walks on the water. Peter starts to sink, Jesus reaches out and saves him. And when they got into the boat the wind stopped. And those who were in the boat worshipped Him saying, "You are certainly God's Son!" These people are not just tipping their hats to an esteemed person. In Matthew 28:17 it says, "And when they saw Him, [the risen Jesus Christ whom they knew had been dead and was now alive] they worshipped Him." And then in John 9:38 the man blind from birth is healed. He said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. Hebrews 1:6, "And when He again brings the first-born into the world He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

                These verses show much more than mere respect, much more than deference, much more than courtesy. Jesus is being worshipped. Yes, there are times when the word proskuneo is used of Jesus and other men and it doesn't refer to worship. The context tells us. We looked at the context and especially the use of the phrase "falling down and worshipping." It seems hard to escape the conclusion that Jesus is being worshipped.

                We have just done an exhaustive analysis of the context and came to the fair and reasonable conclusion that Jesus was worshipped. Does that mean it's right? No, we could be wrong. But the evidence is compelling that on some occasions Jesus received the kind of proskuneo , worship, that was to be reserved for God alone.

                As I said, the context is the most important factor in determining the meaning of a word. We have just done an exhaustive analysis of the context and came to the fair and reasonable conclusion that Jesus was worshipped. Does that mean it's right? No, we could be wrong. But the evidence is compelling that on some occasions Jesus received the kind of proskuneo, worship, that was to be reserved for God alone.

                There are a number of places where the deity of Christ seems to be inferred (I would say implied, i.e., it was the intent of the author). All we need is one concrete anchor regarding Jesus' deity to justify the inference. We have several; this is one of them. Jesus, clearly, received worship. If He did, then we've proven His deity.

                https://www.str.org/articles/was-jes...d#.WURu8S94WrU
                Last edited by Pip1; 17-06-17, 12:09 AM. Reason: Forgot to add the link

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: the virgin mary pbuh

                  Originally posted by Pip1 View Post
                  Were teachers, Rabbi's ever worshipped? I found an interesting article on the word "Proskuneo" bowing down in respect or worship. One needs to apply context to understand weather it was actual worship or not, seeing as the word is used in various instances.
                  As I said, the context is the most important factor in determining the meaning of a word. We have just done an exhaustive analysis of the context and came to the fair and reasonable conclusion that Jesus was worshipped. Does that mean it's right? .………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………………….

                  There are a number of places where the deity of Christ seems to be inferred (I would say implied, i.e., it was the intent of the author). All we need is one concrete anchor regarding Jesus' deity to justify the inference. We have several; this is one of them. Jesus, clearly, received worship. If He did, then we've proven His deity.

                  https://www.str.org/articles/was-jes...d#.WURu8S94WrU
                  I’m sorry that I did not attach the complete post of yours as I found it to be pretty long but those who are interested, can go to post#8 to read the whole posting of Pip1 and to which I'm responding.

                  I am also so sorry that you have to sacrifice so much of your quality family time to come out with such a long and winding ‘explanation’ but ONLY to explain NOTHING.

                  Whether the people in Jesus’ lifetime worshiped him as a God or they ’worshiped’ him as a mark of respect, is NOT a contributing factor BUT what Jesus himself understood what the ‘worship’ was all about is. Did Jesus understand their worship of him as a mark of respect or did he understand it as a worship to him as a God ??

                  You have not shown any evidences that proved that when the people worshiped Jesus, Jesus understood their offer of worship is a worship to him as God and not as a mark of respect.

                  The fact that Jesus said what he said in Matthew 4:10 showed that Jesus will never accept worship of him as a God and thus, he understood the people’s worship of him is that of respect and NOT the worship of a God and that’s why he never rebuke them. It would not be the trait of Jesus, as a man of truth and a prophet of God, to say what he said in Matthew 4:10 and then silently, accept the people’s worship of him as God too. You think Jesus is that kind of a man ??

                  Originally posted by Pip1 View Post
                  "What does proskuneo mean when it is applied to Jesus? How do we go about solving this problem?" I'm going to show you in detail how to answer this kind of question.

                  What you ‘showed in detail how to answer this kind of question’ (really ??) is what we all already knew and that is, in Jesus’ lifetime, there are groups of people who ‘proskuneo’ ie. they pay respect and honour him as a rabbi/teacher and as a prophet of God and there are groups of people who go beyond the boundary of just respecting Jesus as a rabbi/teacher/prophet - they literally worship him as God !

                  Two things you need to consider – first, Jesus cannot stop people from loving and idolizing him to the point of worshiping him as a God just as he cannot stop people from hating him to the point where they are willing to falsely accuse him of blasphemy as an excuse to kill him. Second, the fact that there are groups of people who worship Jesus as a God DO NOT MAKE Jesus a God just as the Pharisees who claimed Jesus cast out devils by the power of Satan DO NOT MAKE Jesus a servant of Satan.

                  Its not what the people do or say that really tell us who Jesus is BUT its what Jesus did, said and understood that REALLY tell us who Jesus is.

                  So, what did Jesus himself say about worship ?

                  Let me quote again Jesus own words :

                  “You SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD and Him only shall you serve” – Matthew 4:10
                  - It cannot get any clearer than this as to who your worship should be to.

                  So, here's the question - why do the Christians today STILL worship Jesus as God when Jesus, in crystal clear words, said you shall worship God and ONLY Him you should serve ?

                  Because Jesus was silent and never rebuke those who worship him ?

                  Well, in Matthew 27:12-14, we were told Jesus remained silent and never rebuke all the charges made against him – “When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer. Then Pilate asked him, “Don’t you hear the testimony they are bringing against you?” But Jesus made no reply, not even to a single charge—to the great amazement of the governor.” Does this mean that because Jesus remained silent and never rebuke those charges it mean he’s admitting he’s guilty as charged ??

                  Obviously, silence does not always mean acceptance. For Jesus’ silence to be taken as acceptance (of him to be worshiped), there must be a pre-existing affirmation from Jesus that he’s God and worthy of worship as a God but there is none whatsoever in the whole Bible.

                  In the case of God, there is - God made it clear that He’s One and ONLY Him you shall worship and serve – a statement which Jesus never make about himself but which he repeated to affirm that only God you shall worship and serve.

                  Originally posted by Pip1 View Post
                  All we need is one concrete anchor regarding Jesus' deity to justify the inference. We have several; this is one of them. Jesus, clearly, received worship. If He did, then we've proven His deity.
                  The only thing you have proven is that your scholars and your Church believe Jesus was worshiped in his lifetime and that's a good reason why you too must worship Jesus as God ? I cannot even say your Bible have proven Jesus was worshiped as a God as the Greek word ‘proskeneo’ in the Bible, when applied to Jesus, even in context, does not necessarily mean worship (as to a God) but more likely a worship as a mark of respect.

                  As I said earlier in this post, its not what the people do, say and understand that really tell us who Jesus is BUT its what Jesus did, said and understood that REALLY tell us who Jesus is.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: the virgin mary pbuh

                    shachah (Hebrew)

                    1. to bow down

                    a. (Qal) to bow down
                    b. (Hiphil) to depress (fig)
                    c. (Hithpael)

                    1. to bow down, prostrate oneself 1c
                    d. before superior in homage 1c
                    e. before God in worship 1c
                    f. before false gods 1c
                    g. before angel

                    http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexic...v/shachah.html


                    Proskuneo (Greek)

                    Definition
                    1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
                    2 .among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
                    3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication


                    a. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank

                    1 .to the Jewish high priests
                    2. to God
                    3. to Christ
                    4. to heavenly beings
                    5 .to demons

                    http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexic...proskuneo.html

                    Comment


                      #11
                      if jesus was god and mary worshipped him in heaven before he was born than why did jesus pbuh not descend from heaven and why was he born from the loins of a woman. also if jesus pbuh was god in the form of man than why did he cry out elah elah why hast thou forsaken me. why did he cry out god oh god why hast thou forsaken me.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        in the bible it says there is only one god and he is a jealous god, elah, ilah, elaha, rabb in Aramaic gospel allah, ilah, rabb in quran, allo in hindu vedas, allah in Sikh scriptures, so why would anyone worship jesus Christ even as a mark of respect when allah is such a jealous god and he says do not set up partners with him, the message of all the prophets.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by cloud9 View Post
                          if jesus was god and mary worshipped him in heaven before he was born than why did jesus pbuh not descend from heaven and why was he born from the loins of a woman. also if jesus pbuh was god in the form of man than why did he cry out elah elah why hast thou forsaken me. why did he cry out god oh god why hast thou forsaken me.
                          Muslim :: Book 30 : Hadith 5836

                          Abu Huraira reported many a hadith from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and one is that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I am most close to JesusJs, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life. They said: Allah's Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostlele between us (between I and Jesus The Messiah).
                          My sect - No Sect

                          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                          Just a Muslim

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                            #14
                            JerryMyers jazakullah khayr for post # 9 in particular. Not only was it the Church that claimed Jesus approved of his worship, but the Church IMPOSED their misinterpretation of the texts, and followed up that imposition by utterly decimating all alternative interpretations and even decimated the presence of rational, critical thought within the Roman Catholic Church's authority. Opposing "sects" including monotheists were utterly decimated, hunted, kangaroo show trials, or just executed as part of their purges. This is also why the Jewish communities were so persecuted, to suppress dissent from their imposed unbelief. And it can be mentioned that the mission of Jesus (alaihi salam) lasted for only 3 years. While he lived among them for 30+ years, he was only among them for 3 years during which time some Jews overwhelming showed kufr and rebellion against him, with the major sects mounting attacks, plots, and conspiracies to turn Jews against him. Not to mention, the Pharisee rabbis who participated in murdering Yahya and Zakariyah ( ahs) before plotting against Isa bin Maryam (as).
                            Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
                            " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                              JerryMyers jazakullah khayr for post # 9 in particular. Not only was it the Church that claimed Jesus approved of his worship, but the Church IMPOSED their misinterpretation of the texts, and followed up that imposition by utterly decimating all alternative interpretations and even decimated the presence of rational, critical thought within the Roman Catholic Church's authority. Opposing "sects" including monotheists were utterly decimated, hunted, kangaroo show trials, or just executed as part of their purges. This is also why the Jewish communities were so persecuted, to suppress dissent from their imposed unbelief. And it can be mentioned that the mission of Jesus (alaihi salam) lasted for only 3 years. While he lived among them for 30+ years, he was only among them for 3 years during which time some Jews overwhelming showed kufr and rebellion against him, with the major sects mounting attacks, plots, and conspiracies to turn Jews against him. Not to mention, the Pharisee rabbis who participated in murdering Yahya and Zakariyah ( ahs) before plotting against Isa bin Maryam (as).
                              True, Akhi. The Christians placed their belief on what others said of who Jesus is, rather than who Jesus said of himself in their own scriptures.

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