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Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

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    Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

    1 ~ The Comforter would come in the life time of Jesus' disciples.. in fact before they depart Jerusalem see Acts 1:4-5, John 16:7 ........ Mohammed was born long after the Comforter must have come, i.e. 500+ years later.

    2 ~ The Comforter is not a physical being and can't be seen ordinarily see John 14:17 ....... Mohammed was a physical being and ordinarily visible.

    3 ~ The Comforter would come from Heaven directly from God see John 15:26..... Mohammed with all due respect, was ordinarily born in this World to parents; grew up ordinarily, became an employed trader etc before he eventually became the Prophet of Islam.

    4 ~ The Comforter, according to Jesus himself, was the Holy Spirit which his disciples Knew because he (the Spirit) was with them and was going to dwell in their mind see John 14:17......... Mohammed never lived with Jesus' disciples and he was a physical being who did not dwell in the mind.

    5 ~ The Comforter would be with Jesus' disciples and, of course the subsequent faithful for ever see John 14:16 .........Mohammed died long ago and has a tomb.

    6 ~ As Jesus promised, the Comforter came to the disciples before they departed Jerusalem see Acts 2:3-4...... Like I said earlier, Mohammed came a distant 6 generations later, and is there any evidence that Mohammed was in Jerusalem at Pentecost?

    7 ~ Jesus said the Comforter would bring to their remembrance His teachings. In preparation for their mission to take the Gospel of Jesus to all peoples.... Mohammed never heard Jesus teach so would have been unable to assist the disciples in this way. Besides Mohammed brought a message that was diametrically opposed to the mission of Jesus.

    So in conclusion.. The Comforter Jesus promised is the Holy Spirit.. Whom proceeded from God and was sent by Jesus..

    #2
    Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

    Hi, Arbed you are shrewd enough to start a thread challenging on the Comforter issue when you know am VERY Busy my mind involved in travel, house moving etc , but Inshallah i will prove my stance as my time permits to check your quotes as, then and then one by one

    Originally posted by Arbed View Post
    1 ~ The Comforter would come in the life time of Jesus' disciples
    .

    Your VERY first POINT IS 100 % WRONG see the next verse you quoted yourselves https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-8&version=CJB

    John 16:7-8

    ''7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you. However, if I do go, I will send him to you
    8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —

    Who showed the world is wrong about sin ? its ONLY our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because you took Shirk or triune concept, wine, swine usury, barring divorcee marriage as permitted and not as sins


    Originally posted by Arbed View Post
    . in fact before they depart Jerusalem see Acts 1:4-5,


    Acts 1 :4-5 deals with with the founding of the Christian church after Jesus's vanishing and the spread of its message to the Roman empire which happened after Jesus's so called crucifixtion which was just a ' fiction'' It never Mentioned the word '' Comforter '' ''Counselor'' or '' Advocate'' or '' Spirit of Truth'' and to wiki Chapter Acts was by anonymous author and not Jesus, see wiki below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles

    .'Acts is the second half of a two-part work, referred to as Luke-Acts, by the same anonymous author, referred to as Luke the Evangelist, and usually dated to around 80-90 CE.[2][3] ''

    So where are you carried away my dear when we are talking about '''''' THE COMFORTER '''' explicitly which was mentioned in Chapter John 14, 16 etc at the last supper or that Jesus ( Alive ) told him selves directly to his disciples before Jesus's so called ' cruci'fiction' .Shows you are VERY DESPERATE to prove somehow where even with completely unrelated verses which only Kills my limited precious time:( searching through your books :(

    Originally posted by Arbed View Post
    John 16:7 ........ Mohammed was born long after the Comforter must have come, i.e. 500+ years later.
    Of course this what the verse john 16:7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=CJB says that the Comforter will come later and not when Jesus is alive and in another verse of John 14:18
    '' I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. ''

    also refers to a long time after Jesus during his second coming and '' coming to you '' does not mean coming to the disciples who were alive then but dead now But to all the followers of Jesus later near the day of Judgement.

    Originally posted by Arbed View Post
    2 ~ The Comforter is not a physical being and can't be seen ordinarily see John 14:17 ....... Mohammed was a physical being and ordinarily visible.
    The next part of your John 14:17 says the disciples are seeing the comforter who is living with them So W,hy did you '' HIDE'' or did not mention the very next part of the same verse , Dear ? which gives YOU the answer OR REFUTES your Claim see my bolded red

    ''16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever.''

    So this 16 verse talks about Jesus who is the ' COMFORTER '' HIMSELVES already there present with the disciples .Proof : see the word by Jesus '' LIKE ME " like Jesus in Flesh Live and alive not any Holy spirit ( except the verse john 14:26 which is a self contradicting to all other comforter verses of John )



    17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.

    18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.


    Here in verse 17 Jesus will be united during his second coming and in verse 18 it says Jesus will not leave the Christians as Orphan ie orphan of true knowledge and he is COMING TO YOU does not refer the disciples who are already to dead but to all Chrisitians before the day of Judgement and also refer to https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=CJB
    that Jesus will get angry in his second coming because you people did not believe the Comforter who show what was Sin ? as in your verse

    John 16:8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —


    Originally posted by Arbed View Post


    So
    3 ~ The Comforter would come from Heaven directly from God see John 15:26..... Mohammed with all due respect, was ordinarily born in this World to parents; grew up ordinarily, became an employed trader etc before he eventually became the Prophet of Islam.

    4 ~ The Comforter, according to Jesus himself, was the Holy Spirit which his disciples Knew because he (the Spirit) was with them and was going to dwell in their mind see John 14:17......... Mohammed never lived with Jesus' disciples and he was a physical being who did not dwell in the mind.

    5 ~ The Comforter would be with Jesus' disciples and, of course the subsequent faithful for ever see John 14:16 .........Mohammed died long ago and has a tomb.

    6 ~ As Jesus promised, the Comforter came to the disciples before they departed Jerusalem see Acts 2:3-4...... Like I said earlier, Mohammed came a distant 6 generations later, and is there any evidence that Mohammed was in Jerusalem at Pentecost?

    7 ~ Jesus said the Comforter would bring to their remembrance His teachings. In preparation for their mission to take the Gospel of Jesus to all peoples.... Mohammed never heard Jesus teach so would have been unable to assist the disciples in this way. Besides Mohammed brought a message that was diametrically opposed to the mission of Jesus.

    So in conclusion.. The Comforter Jesus promised is the Holy Spirit.. Whom proceeded from God and was sent by Jesus..
    rest in next
    My sect - No Sect

    My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

    Just a Muslim

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

      [QUOTE=talibilm09;6391813]Hi, Arbed you are shrewd enough to start a thread challenging on the Comforter issue when you know am VERY Busy my mind involved in travel, house moving etc , but Inshallah i will prove my stance as my time permits to check your quotes as, then and then one by one

      Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
      [

      Your VERY first POINT IS 100 % WRONG see the next verse you quoted yourselves https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-8&version=CJB

      John 16:7-8

      ''7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you. However, if I do go, I will send him to you
      8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —






      Acts 1 :4-5 deals with with the founding of the Christian church after Jesus's vanishing and the spread of its message to the Roman empire which happened after Jesus's so called crucifixtion which was just a ' fiction'' It never Mentioned the word '' Comforter '' ''Counselor'' or '' Advocate'' or '' Spirit of Truth'' and to wiki Chapter Acts was by anonymous author and not Jesus, see wiki below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles

      .'Acts is the second half of a two-part work, referred to as Luke-Acts, by the same anonymous author, referred to as Luke the Evangelist, and usually dated to around 80-90 CE.[2][3] ''


      Of course this what the verse john 16:7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=CJB says that the Comforter will come later and not when Jesus is alive and in another verse of John 14:18
      '' I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. ''

      also refers to a long time after Jesus during his second coming and '' coming to you '' does not mean coming to the disciples who were alive then but dead now But to all the followers of Jesus later near the day of Judgement.

      The next part of your John 14:17 says the disciples are seeing the comforter who is living with them So W,hy did you '' HIDE'' or did not mention the very next part of the same verse , Dear ? which gives YOU the answer OR REFUTES your Claim see my bolded red

      ''16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever.''

      So this 16 verse talks about Jesus who is the ' COMFORTER '' HIMSELVES already there present with the disciples .Proof : see the word by Jesus '' LIKE ME " like Jesus in Flesh Live and alive not any Holy spirit ( except the verse john 14:26 which is a self contradicting to all other comforter verses of John )
      Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post


      17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.

      18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.


      Here in verse 17 Jesus will be united during his second coming and in verse 18 it says Jesus will not leave the Christians as Orphan ie orphan of true knowledge and he is COMING TO YOU does not refer the disciples who are already to dead but to all Chrisitians before the day of Judgement and also refer to https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=CJB
      that Jesus will get angry in his second coming because you people did not believe the Comforter who show what was Sin ? as in your verse

      John 16:8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —

      rest in next
      Let's look mopre closely at context. ESV John14 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?[b] 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”[c] 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

      8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

      12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me[e] anything in my name, I will do it.

      Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

      15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

      18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

      Jesus says here that the comforter and Spirit of truth will be in us. Muhammad is not in us; he wasn't in the disciples of Jesus either. I don't see where you see like me, but even if he said that, he said counselor like me; he didn't say physical appearance like me. Jesus means he'd be in us as the word of God; to send us his spirit he had to be with God.
      To say the Holy Spirit or Spirit of truth is Muhammad is blasphemous to us Christians. Muhammad was never in spirit form. The Spirit of truth glorifies Jesus in us. That is his sole purpose; Muhammad doesn't glorify Jesus in me. In fact, he diminishes him to a lesser creation than himself in the eyes of Muslims. Christians don't see Jesus as creation; we see him as the Creator, because it is written that all things were made by him and for him. Nice try.. You are back to square one

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

        Talibil, I don't get your point....

        You said...

        Odan**********Join Date*Male

        Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

        Hi, Arbed you are shrewd enough to start a thread challenging on the Comforter issue when you know am VERY Busy my mind involved in travel, house moving etc , but Inshallah i will prove my stance as my time permits to check your quotes as, then and then one by one

        *Originally Posted by*Arbed*

        1 ~ The Comforter would come*in the life time of Jesus'*disciples

        .

        Your VERY first POINT IS 100 % WRONG see the next verse you quoted yourselveshttps://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-8&version=CJB

        John 16:7-8*

        ''7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for*if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you*However, if I do go, I will send him to you
        8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —

        Who showed the world is wrong about sin ?*its ONLY our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because you took Shirk or triune concept, wine, swine usury, barring divorcee marriage as permitted and not as sins*

        You answered everything EXCEPT his first point Tal,
        Jesus said the Comforter would come to the disciples.
        PLEASE ADDRESS THAT.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

          Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
          Hi, Arbed you are shrewd enough to start a thread challenging on the Comforter issue when you know am VERY Busy my mind involved in travel, house moving etc , but Inshallah i will prove my stance as my time permits to check your quotes as, then and then one by one


          Talibilm... I'm not a clairvoyant!!!! I don't know if you're busy or not.. Travelling or moving house or whatever else is taking up your valuable time. There is no compulsion for you to reply and no pressure regards time.

          Your VERY first POINT IS 100 % WRONG see the next verse you quoted yourselves https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-8&version=CJB

          John 16:7-8

          ''7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you. However, if I do go, I will send him to you
          8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —

          Who showed the world is wrong about sin ? its ONLY our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because you took Shirk or triune concept, wine, swine usury, barring divorcee marriage as permitted and not as sins
          Right.. Okey dokey.. Jesus is saying He has to go in order to send the Comforter TO YOU.. Who is Jesus talking to here? It's the disciples. So as Jesus identifies the comforter as the Holy Spirit in John 14:17.. Why should I believe your account? That Jesus sent Mohammed as the comforter 600 years later! Not much use to the disciples then as they would have been long dead to the world. But not before they'd been teaching the Gospel of Jesus to anyone who would listen.. So who did they receive this promised guidance from if not the comforter.. Aka The Holy Spirit.

          If you think Shirk.. Wine.. Swine..usury..etc etc are sins not known to the world before Mohammed came you're way off the mark.. Although shirk and drinking of wine are only sins according to Islam. Not heard the term shirk mentioned in the Bible.. Seeing as Jews and Christians worship ONE God and don't associate partners to Him that's not applicable.. And wine is not forbidden in the Bible..... Being drunk is. Whichever way you cut it.. You would have me believe that Jesus waited 600 years leaving His disciples without the promised guidance and mankind adrift in sin. It's not logical. What is logical is that Jesus lived up to His promise, sent the comforter Holy Spirit.. Which the disciples received at Pentecost, thus preparing them for the Mission Jesus had assigned them.


          Acts 1 :4-5 deals with with the founding of the Christian church after Jesus's vanishing and the spread of its message to the Roman empire which happened after Jesus's so called crucifixtion which was just a ' fiction'' It never Mentioned the word '' Comforter '' ''Counselor'' or '' Advocate'' or '' Spirit of Truth'' and to wiki Chapter Acts was by anonymous author and not Jesus, see wiki below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles

          .'Acts is the second half of a two-part work, referred to as Luke-Acts, by the same anonymous author, referred to as Luke the Evangelist, and usually dated to around 80-90 CE.[2][3] ''
          You're not saying much here... And totally missing the point.

          So where are you carried away my dear when we are talking about '''''' THE COMFORTER '''' explicitly which was mentioned in Chapter John 14, 16 etc at the last supper or that Jesus ( Alive ) told him selves directly to his disciples before Jesus's so called ' cruci'fiction' .Shows you are VERY DESPERATE to prove somehow where even with completely unrelated verses which only Kills my limited precious time:( searching through your books :(
          I think you're getting carried away here.. They're not unrelated. What do you think the Church was founded on!!! Second thoughts don't answer that.. Life is too short and you are busy.

          Of course this what the verse john 16:7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=CJB says that the Comforter will come later and not when Jesus is alive and in another verse of John 14:18
          '' I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. ''

          also refers to a long time after Jesus during his second coming and '' coming to you '' does not mean coming to the disciples who were alive then but dead now But to all the followers of Jesus later near the day of Judgement.
          Think on... Yep.. The comforter will come ... AFTER JESUS EARTHLY DEATH... But the reason Jesus sent the comforter was to bring to remembrance all things Jesus had taught them. Why? To spread His Gospel to the world.. It has nothing to do with the second coming.. Where Jesus will judge those who did not heed the Gospels.

          The next part of your John 14:17 says the disciples are seeing the comforter who is living with them So W,hy did you '' HIDE'' or did not mention the very next part of the same verse , Dear ? which gives YOU the answer OR REFUTES your Claim see my bolded red

          ''16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever.''
          Living IN them.. It's known as "indwelling" of the Spirit.. Means they "know" the comforter.. Because it is as ONE with Jesus spiritually. LIKE ME... Not a person who looks like.. Not flesh .. But alike in Spirit and joined in purpose.. Which is to spread the Word of God. FOREVER.. Feel free to explain how Mohammed was IN the disciples and was with them FOREVER..


          So this 16 verse talks about Jesus who is the ' COMFORTER '' HIMSELVES already there present with the disciples .Proof : see the word by Jesus '' LIKE ME " like Jesus in Flesh Live and alive not any Holy spirit ( except the verse john 14:26 which is a self contradicting to all other comforter verses of John )


          17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.


          The world cannot receive him.. Pardon me.. But was Mohammed not received and acknowledged in the world? As a man?

          18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.

          Here in verse 17 Jesus will be united during his second coming and in verse 18 it says Jesus will not leave the Christians as Orphan ie orphan of true knowledge and he is COMING TO YOU does not refer the disciples who are already to dead but to all Chrisitians before the day of Judgement and also refer to https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=CJB
          that Jesus will get angry in his second coming because you people did not believe the Comforter who show what was Sin ? as in your verse
          This has nothing to do with the second coming... I'm amazed at your reasoning and I've never heard the like of it before..!! Thing is for Christians .. We know Jesus never left us.. he lives in each and every one of us who accept Him in truth. I can imagine for the first followers of Jesus.. Many who did not fully understand what they had had in Him but we're bereft by their loss of Him. The Comforter.. Holy Spirit brought understanding through the gospels the disciples told of the revealed Christ.. The Spirit works in each of us to bring that seed of understanding which grows to enlightenment as we come to accept Jesus into our lives.

          John 16:8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —
          that is truth... And you would do well to heed it.


          rest in next
          No rush.. Take your time. We all have episodes when demands on our time are great.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

            Originally posted by Quadratus1 View Post

            You answered everything EXCEPT his first point Tal,
            Jesus said the Comforter would come to the disciples.
            PLEASE ADDRESS THAT.

            I have addressed THAT TOO but its jumbled as is my mind in my pending multi works of repairing repainting my old house so kindly give it a good read Quad so i am copy & paste my post # 2 here below this for questions like yours and a further explanation is given below to prove ''You'' in this verse does not refer to disciples but to all followers of Jesus as a whole

            here it is from post # 2
            Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
            17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.

            18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.


            Here in verse 17 Jesus will be united during his second coming and in verse 18 it says Jesus will not leave the Christians as Orphan ie orphan of true knowledge and he is COMING TO YOU does not refer the disciples who are already to dead but to all Chrisitians before the day of Judgement
            Further Explaining it, speeches of Prophets in scriptures cannot be interpreted same and Exactly as a King or leader speaks because the king words are ONLY for the people who are present in his times Unlike the speech of A Prophet or a religious leader of the 1st source is for all those to follow him , his path & way & light that's why Kings ;like Heraclius of Byzantine commented something like if Muhammad is the same Prophet that we have been expecting than the land under my feet is going to his and i am pleased and will wash his feet if an near him , That's the same honour to all prophets be its Jesus, Moses David all the chosen noblest souls of Allah of their times and their words bear the same respect more than the words of a King or a leader and if they Prophets Say ''TO YOU '' it does not mean a . meagre 11 or 12 disciples but to all those who will follow them and also as seen CLEARLY in verse of John 14:18

            '' I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. ''

            Which Jesus says to ONLY his 11 or 12 disciples , So when Jesus says he will not leave them like orphans he will come back it means to all those Christians
            who are orphaned frm the true knowledge who will meet him before the end of the world when he will kill Dajjal, kill the swine , wine , jizzya and reprove the Law of Allah as the final law

            Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
            Jesus says here that the comforter and Spirit of truth will be in us. Muhammad is not in us; he wasn't in the disciples of Jesus either. I don't see where you see like me, but even if he said that, he said counselor like me; he didn't say physical appearance like me. Jesus means he'd be in us as the word of God; to send us his spirit he had to be with God.
            Aj4u the above explanation of Jesus's words '' to YOU ' is also for You and i continue further leaving your verses of Philips for which i can give an explanation but time & my mind involved in many works does not permit that now. and you are claiming ' Muhammad is not us or in disciples '' because of interpreting the below verses of Jhon 14 : 16-18 Right ? ( If not right quote me another proof )
            John 14:16-18Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

            16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you. 18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.

            You had actually MIXED UP with the comforter and the holy spirit for which you must compare with other verses like John 16 :13-15 (CJB) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...rsion=CJBwhere about 6 CLEAR TRAITS OF THE COMFORTER is given in John 16:13-15 ( as also Claimed by the Noble Quran that Allah had mentioned in the Gospels TRAITS of the last Prophet http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2 )

            Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
            To say the Holy Spirit or Spirit of truth is Muhammad is blasphemous to us Christians. Muhammad was never in spirit form. The Spirit of truth glorifies Jesus in us. That is his sole purpose; Muhammad doesn't glorify Jesus in me. In fact, he diminishes him to a lesser creation than himself in the eyes of Muslims. Christians don't see Jesus as creation; we see him as the Creator, because it is written that all things were made by him and for him. Nice try.. You are back to square one
            so your above quote & this quote both quotes WILL CONTRADICT the BELOW words of Jesus proving it to be lies ( May Allah forgive me he is the spirit of truth as all Prophet & Muhammad (pbuh) is and Prophets never lie ) '' IF YOU SAY COMFORTER OR THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH MEANS THE HOLY SPIRIT '' . The reason is NOT ONLY your mistake but one verse like 14:26 and John 14 :16-18 's self contradictory in some terms like '' I will ask the father '' where in other verse it says '' I will send him "' which is self contradictory as in the ' Another comforter like me, Spirit of Truth '' in John 14:16-17 & more verses against only verse in favour of you verse 14:26 '' Comforter, the holy host ''

            to concentrate on the below verses John 14:16-17

            16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you. 18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.


            &

            John 16:7-8

            ''7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you. However, if I do go, I will send him to you
            8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —

            From the above two verses I like to Bring your attention to THESE FACTS

            1) Firstly as per 16 : 7-8 's '' if i don't go away , the comforting counselor will not come '' and John John 14:16-17 '' ANOTHER '' comfortingg Counselor ''LIKE ME ''Jesus (pbuh) REFERRED TO SOMEBODY who was not Present at that time but we all know ' The HOLY GHOST '' was present always even at the time of Jesus and with the disciples known from verses of bible

            & when Jesus says in John 14:17-18

            ''The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him .You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you
            18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you''

            So All words of '' HIM '' refers to a Male person not a spirit as a SPIRIT will be referred ONLY as '' IT '' '' HIM''ONLY REFERS to JESUS HIMSELVES not to the Holy Spirit or to ANOTHER COMFORTER TO COME later ( as Aj4u Claims that Muhammad, the last Comforter was NOT with the disciples) who ONLY THE 12 disciples believed and knew him in true sense and but the world did not know as a whole Jesus in true sense of a Great Prophet of God (but as a magician) because He ( Jesus was staying with them and will be UNITED later as Jesus will not leave them as Orphans of '' knowledge ' and will come BACK t them ' in the 2nd coming'




            to Arbed I havent read your last post yet will see it asap
            My sect - No Sect

            My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

            Just a Muslim

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              #7
              Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

              Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
              ['' I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. ''

              to concentrate on the below verses John 14:16-17

              16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you. 18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you.[/COLOR]

              &

              John 16:7-8

              ''7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you. However, if I do go, I will send him to you
              8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —

              From the above two verses I like to Bring your attention to THESE FACTS

              1) Firstly as per 16 : 7-8 's '' if i don't go away , the comforting counselor will not come '' and John John 14:16-17 '' ANOTHER '' comfortingg Counselor ''LIKE ME ''Jesus (pbuh) REFERRED TO SOMEBODY who was not Present at that time but we all know ' The HOLY GHOST '' was present always even at the time of Jesus and with the disciples known from verses of bible

              & when Jesus says in John 14:17-18

              ''The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him .You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you
              18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you''
              Like me? what version of Bible is that in?

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                #8
                Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                Like me? what version of Bible is that in?
                CJB https://www.biblegateway.com/version...ish-Bible-CJB/

                I prefer this CJB though its inclined towards Concept of Christianity but its a little less inclined among them using the Jewish old terms as we know Jesus was a Jew and its important to know what Jesus really meant by his words though its still distorted as per the TESTIMONY of the Noble Quran , the Preserved one.
                My sect - No Sect

                My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                Just a Muslim

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                  #9
                  Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                  Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                  CJB https://www.biblegateway.com/version...ish-Bible-CJB/

                  I prefer this CJB though its inclined towards Concept of Christianity but its a little less inclined among them using the Jewish old terms as we know Jesus was a Jew and its important to know what Jesus really meant by his words though its still distorted as per the TESTIMONY of the Noble Quran , the Preserved one.
                  Where did Jesus say like me?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                    Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                    CJB https://www.biblegateway.com/version...ish-Bible-CJB/

                    I prefer this CJB though its inclined towards Concept of Christianity but its a little less inclined among them using the Jewish old terms as we know Jesus was a Jew and its important to know what Jesus really meant by his words though its still distorted as per the TESTIMONY of the Noble Quran , the Preserved one.

                    Yochanan 14:16-17Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

                    16 And I will ask HaAv and another Melitz Yosher [Advocate, Counselor, Helper in Court, 14:26; 15:26; 16:7] He will give you that He may be with you l’Olam,
                    17 The Ruach HaEmes, which the Olam Hazeh is not able to receive, because it does not see Him nor have da’as of Him. But you have da’as of Him, because He remains with you and He will be in you.
                    Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

                    Why didn't you choose the OJB Bible? Either way.. We're still talking about the Holy Spirit. "Ruach HaEmes" = Holy Spirit.


                    Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                    Where did Jesus say like me?
                    John 14:16-17Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

                    16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.

                    CJB translates it thus.. And Talibilm is taking the "Like me" to mean a flesh and blood man. But the rest of the verse makes it clear that Jesus is implying Likeness in the Spiritual sense. Which is born out by the rest of scripture where Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit. It's a no brainer. Talibilm cannot allow himself to see it. .... Lol.. And he calls me blind!

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                      #11
                      Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                      Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                      Like me? what version of Bible is that in?
                      "Another" Comforter implies similarity to the first "Comforter."
                      There is similarity between Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
                      Jesus said His blood was the new covenant for forgiveness of sins.
                      The Holy Spirit agrees, in that He imparts power over man's sin nature, when that man trusts in the sacrifice of Jesus for forgiveness.

                      A good example of that vindication is found on my post, The Power of the Blood of Jesus Over the Sin of Homosexuality.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                        Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                        Yochanan 14:16-17Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

                        16 And I will ask HaAv and another Melitz Yosher [Advocate, Counselor, Helper in Court, 14:26; 15:26; 16:7] He will give you that He may be with you l’Olam,
                        17 The Ruach HaEmes, which the Olam Hazeh is not able to receive, because it does not see Him nor have da’as of Him. But you have da’as of Him, because He remains with you and He will be in you.
                        Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

                        Why didn't you choose the OJB Bible? Either way.. We're still talking about the Holy Spirit. "Ruach HaEmes" = Holy Spirit.




                        John 14:16-17Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

                        16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.

                        CJB translates it thus.. And Talibilm is taking the "Like me" to mean a flesh and blood man. But the rest of the verse makes it clear that Jesus is implying Likeness in the Spiritual sense. Which is born out by the rest of scripture where Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit. It's a no brainer. Talibilm cannot allow himself to see it. .... Lol.. And he calls me blind!
                        I hear you, there are none so blind as those who will not see

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                          Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                          Yochanan 14:16-17Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

                          Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

                          Why didn't you choose the OJB Bible? Either way.. We're still talking about the Holy Spirit. "Ruach HaEmes" = Holy Spirit.

                          John 14:16-17Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
                          CJB translates it thus.. And Talibilm is taking the "Like me" to mean a flesh and blood man. But the rest of the verse makes it clear that Jesus is implying Likeness in the Spiritual sense. Which is born out by the rest of scripture where Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit. It's a no brainer. Talibilm cannot allow himself to see it. .... Lol.. And he calls me blind!
                          I never hear of that version before, but I told him even if Jesus said that, it is pertaining to likeness of spirit not flesh and blood

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            Talibilm... I'm not a clairvoyant!!!! I don't know if you're busy or not.. Travelling or moving house or whatever else is taking up your valuable time. There is no compulsion for you to reply and no pressure regards time.
                            But there is compulsion for me as I am sure 100 % the ' ANOTHER COMFORTER LIKE ME, The Spirit of truth '' is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
                            who the Rabbis of Medina Abdullah ibn Salam and his group & Rabbi Zayd Ibn Sanah, The Richest Man in medina and his group accepted and embraced Islam and also spent half of his wealth and died as a Martyr.

                            So are the King Negus and even Heraclius sent a message saying he accepted Islam & prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as the last awaited Comforter, prophet but will not display it since he fear to loose the support of his people & consequently his vast Kingdom as the top Superpower (like USA, will USA surrender to Nepal ) of those times.. Similarly Kings of Egypt etc showered Prophet with gifts asking time to take their decisions. So who is in a better position to decide who was the last Prophet or Comforter ? its You Or our Prophet's times Contemporaries ? who knew better ? is it you or the Christians of today or the Chrisitian king of Negus ? using DOUBLE STANDARDS to interpret your own books verses will never guide you to truth as you are talking in your next quote
                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            Living IN them.. It's known as "indwelling" of the Spirit.. Means they "know" the comforter.. Because it is as ONE with Jesus spiritually. LIKE ME... Not a person who looks like.. Not flesh .. But alike in Spirit and joined in purpose.. Which is to spread the Word of God. FOREVER.. Feel free to explain how Mohammed was IN the disciples and was with them FOREVER..
                            Those your red bolded words are REAL DOUBLE STANDARDS when you talk about Moses ' in Deut 18 about the coming of the prophet in my kinsmen ''LIKE ME '' you take literally and '' I & My father are ONE '' you take it literally - verbatim, word to word but when JESUS says ANOTHER COMFORTER ''LIKE ME '' you ELUDE like Jelly fish from the commitment trumpeting he meant ' spiritually'' but listen carefully to me by doing this deception , double standard you EFFECT ISLAM not to even 1 % and I 've been claiming always that Prophet Muhammad never used for Lobbying purpose this '' COMFORTER ISSUE '' or his name foretold as Ahamad ( Paraclyte in Greek or the praised one or comforter ) in the Gospels and as Muhammad in Torah in songs of song which was transferred from the main Torah to the book of Ketuvim in the 8th century ( Quran came in 7th century claiming the foretelling of Muhammad ) with a background fake story of lovers . lol , very unessential for the Torah . So by acting BLIND & DEAF for all the screams of all the scriptures you will not only take your sins but also the sins of all those who misguide



                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            Right.. Okey dokey.. Jesus is saying He has to go in order to send the Comforter TO YOU.. Who is Jesus talking to here? It's the disciples. So as Jesus identifies the comforter as the Holy Spirit in John 14:17.. Why should I believe your account? That Jesus sent Mohammed as the comforter 600 years later! Not much use to the disciples then as they would have been long dead to the world. But not before they'd been teaching the Gospel of Jesus to anyone who would listen.. So who did they receive this promised guidance from if not the comforter.. Aka The Holy Spirit.
                            John 14:17Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
                            17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you.

                            This explains about Jesus him selves since the world did not take seriously about the prophet hood of Jesus except the meagre 12 disciples and the world (even Jews) took his miracles as a Great Magic overlooking the truth of the Power of Allah behind me ( He showed miracles with the permission of Allah - The Noble Quran ) that's why Jesus says here to the disciples ' YOU KNOW HIM''
                            and he is staying with them and he will united with him . See all the '' HIMS' there which referred to ONLY JESUS HIM SELVES and not a spirit . Did the spirit of staying 24 hours with the disciples ? , sleeping, eating, praying ? But Jesus was with them doing all these so '' He is STAYING with YOU (Disciples) ;) ? is that Clear ? but know you are going into dig in your heels with Aj4u & Quad and all your missionaries that ere reading this post


                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            If you think Shirk.. Wine.. Swine..usury..etc etc are sins not known to the world before Mohammed came you're way off the mark.. Although shirk and drinking of wine are only sins according to Islam. Not heard the term shirk mentioned in the Bible.. Seeing as Jews and Christians worship ONE God and don't associate partners to Him that's not applicable.. And wine is not forbidden in the Bible..... Being drunk is. Whichever way you cut it.. You would have me believe that Jesus waited 600 years leaving His disciples without the promised guidance and mankind adrift in sin. It's not logical.
                            There are verses in both OT & NT condemning shirk but both of you committed but the Jews came out from it on seeing the warning of the noble quran who took Rabbi Ezra as the son of God after he rewrote the Torah destroyed by Nebud Nezzar and Chrisitians with their different misguided concepts adopted shirk as well when your book warned it that when Jesus says ''My father is above all.'' I cant myself do nothing'' ,'' To my father and your father, to my lord and Your Lord '' but the 40 authors of bible twisted & Inserted shirk and those verses like of Creation of Adam as of Jesus himselves as the first born (hebrews) and with a laughable contradicition ( To err is human so humans wrote it) in Exodus where Jacob, Israel as the first born as well. There are verses in NT where it condemns idolators, drunkards, Swine but its BIG JOKE you people who TRUMPET to follow Bible but dumped those verses making ego your god (*thaguth in Arabic) and you ELUDED the divorcee Re marriage as a sin in your books calling it a adultery. And you call your books are not adulterated ? shame on who ?




                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            What is logical is that Jesus lived up to His promise, sent the comforter Holy Spirit.. Which the disciples received at Pentecost, thus preparing them for the Mission Jesus had assigned them.
                            So i already pointed out the contradiction where in one verse Jesus i will send the comforter & in another verse he says '' I will ask the father to give another comforter '' and Quad stupidly quotes ' ANOTHER'' refers to holy spirit while holy spirit is ONLY ONE as per your doctrine and'' it '' holy spirit was before and during and after Jesus



                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            You're not saying much here... And totally missing the point.
                            Si I had explained you further , thus not missing the POINT.'' Comforter, the spirit of truth was Jesus and another comforter refers to some one after Jesus who was not present at the time of presence of Jesus and Its NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT because the SPIRIT was present while Jesus was alive & with the disciples.


                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            I think you're getting carried away here.. They're not unrelated. What do you think the Church was founded on!!! Second thoughts don't answer that.. Life is too short and you are busy.
                            your Church splitting into 41000 denominations proves my point & that's the reason you have to lie to hide another lie and all assumptions imaginations and the Jews wished you should split with their treachery through Paul as i had given my unbiased conclusions from histories from all sides.


                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            Think on... Yep.. The comforter will come ... AFTER JESUS EARTHLY DEATH... But the reason Jesus sent the comforter was to bring to remembrance all things Jesus had taught them. Why? To spread His Gospel to the world . It has nothing to do with the second coming.. Where Jesus will judge those who did not heed the Gospels.
                            You had ever said that Holy spirit appeared at Pentcost appeared 15 days after Jesus vanishing right ? kindly confirm please.





                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post
                            The world cannot receive him.. Pardon me.. But was Mohammed not received and acknowledged in the world? As a man?
                            I've proved you its was referring to Jesus only 12 disciples understood him in real sense but not the world. This was not spoken about the '' ANOTHER COMFORTER '' which you had mixed up, so you put yourselves in a headache by the self contradicting mixed verses of NT


                            Originally posted by Arbed View Post

                            No rush.. Take your time. We all have episodes when demands on our time are great.
                            Only time is not enough for me when our MIND is not free untill all things of my 5 members of my family and other things settle down
                            My sect - No Sect

                            My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                            Just a Muslim

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed

                              Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                              [COLOR="#000000"]

                              But there is compulsion for me as I am sure 100 % the ' ANOTHER COMFORTER LIKE ME, The Spirit of truth '' is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
                              What makes you so sure when that verse was already spoken for and accepted before Muhammad was born in the gospel?

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