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  • Explorations with Shia Practice

    Assalamu alaikum.

    Many of you know that after last Ramadan I started to dive into Shia beliefs and practices. I did so after questioning some of the history of the Sahabah as taught by various Sunni scholars. While I don't regret looking into it as I think Muslims should be educated on different interpretations (whether we consider them valid or not), I quickly saw some pitfalls in it.

    1. I noticed too much of what I would call a "cult of personality." Everything seems to revolve around the personalities of the Ahlul Bayt rather than the message of Islam that they stood for. Further, I consistently noticed an emphasis on the Imams first, followed by the Prophet (saw), followed by Allah (swt) when it should be in the reverse order. All Muslims should love the Ahlul Bayt but focusing more on them or even more on the Prophet (saw) than on Allah (swt) does not seem wise to me.

    2. Too many practices that don't seem to have a strong shariah basis. Namely the many mourning rituals related to martyrdom of the Ahlul Bayt. While it is normal that we humans mourn the loss of any loved one, if we understand the situation Islamically then we know that in the case of martyrs they are not dead but that they are receiving their provisions from Allah (swt). We should therefore be happy for them. Looking at the situation of martyrs now whether it be the atrocities happening in Gaza or the recent Chapel Hill Shooting sure there are many emotions we all go through. Of course we cry tears for them. Many of us want to beat our chests or pound fists against something but once we get a hold of ourselves we realize that this is all a test from Allah (swt) and that if He accepts their martyrdom then they have not lost but won. Why the Shia want to make annual rituals over crying for martyrs and beating chests is beyond me. I approached it with open-mindedness to see if there was some logic behind it. I just don't get it. This was all a part of Allah's plan for them and we should be happy that they are among the best in Jannah.

    3. As an extension to point #2 I noticed a severe lack of focus on contemporary issues. They spoke out a lot against ISIS but nothing whatsoever against American imperialism. I find it strange to have yearly calendars around crying for martyrs of the Ahlul Bayt while not putting anything into practice over what is going on today. You'd think they would mourn over today's martyrs. Of course the same is true with most of the Sunni leaders I've seen as well. They simply don't touch contemporary issues. But with the extensive focus on martyrdom of Ahlul Bayt you would think they would apply those lessons to today. Why tell the sacrifice of Imam Hussein and not talk about the sacrifices we can make for Islam today? It doesn't make sense.

    On the other hand, I do think the condemnations that some Sunnis make towards the Shia are greatly exaggerated. Walking into Shia masjids I don't see a huge difference in basic Islamic practices and beliefs. The prayers are quite similar with some minor differences, there are different hadeeth collections cited, different classical scholars quoted, etc. but the core of the religion is as far as I can tell the same. I won't do takfeer on them as some do. I think that is very dangerous to do. I also did not see evidence of the shirk that so many people claim Shia engage in. Bidah perhaps but not shirk. I would like to see mainstream Sunni scholars include more content on the Ahlul Bayt as I think this is an area too neglected in Sunni teachings especially considering the fact that the Ahlul Bayt are considered Sahabah and Salaf as well (for the ones who lived during those generations).

    The conclusion I've drawn is that the Shia approach seems too risky and that it is safer to stick to the mainstream understanding and approach. Therefore, I have reversed this and gone back to ahlus sunnah wal jammah. I am open minded and willing to read stuff about Shia teachings but this is secondary while learning ahlus sunnah wal jammah is primary. Any constructive thoughts are welcome here. Please keep proper adab. I don't like seeing these threads turn into hostile Sunni vs. Shia debates.

  • #2
    Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

    You can't have researched Tashayyu` without visiting our website:
    http://twelvershia.net/
    And our forums for further questions and discussions:
    http://forum.twelvershia.net/

    ^ These two places are pretty much the only ones where you'll get in-depth analysis and explanations on Shia sects.

    We just received a new ex-Shia brother a few minutes ago, "sheikh" here:
    http://forum.twelvershia.net/sahabah...y/msg4650/#new

    As far as what I think about what you wrote, nothing surprising really, except for where you said "They have Bid`ah but not Shirk", this is not accurate at all, but I understand if you seemed to have stumbled upon a bunch of reformist Shia wherever you live. However, truth of the matter is, the majority of Shia today have sunk into a level of Shirk that no one except Allah can help them get out of.
    Last edited by TripolySunni; 17-03-15, 03:37 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

      الله اکبر

      Walaikum Salam wr wb,

      Alhamdulellah. He guides whom He wills.

      Like brother Tripoly mentioned, forum.twelvershia.net is the best Sunni-Shia discussion forum so if you have doubts or questions about any matter please join the forum.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

        Jazakallah khair for the comments. Not sure that I have the time to check out yet another forum, lol, but if time permits I'll take a look insha'Allah. :)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

          =faithandpeace;6386653]Assalamu alaikum.

          Many of you know that after last Ramadan I started to dive into Shia beliefs and practices. I did so after questioning some of the history of the Sahabah as taught by various Sunni scholars. While I don't regret looking into it as I think Muslims should be educated on different interpretations (whether we consider them valid or not), I quickly saw some pitfalls in it.

          1. I noticed too much of what I would call a "cult of personality." Everything seems to revolve around the personalities of the Ahlul Bayt rather than the message of Islam that they stood for. Further, I consistently noticed an emphasis on the Imams first, followed by the Prophet (saw), followed by Allah (swt) when it should be in the reverse order. All Muslims should love the Ahlul Bayt but focusing more on them or even more on the Prophet (saw) than on Allah (swt) does not seem wise to me.

          Shias do mention Ahlul bait (as) a lot because no other sect even remember them. Plus for shias belief and matter about Allah and prophet (saws) is quite clear as it can be found in all the muslim sects but not about Ahlul bait (as). Although we Shias have a better belief about Allah and prophet (saws) than any other sects.

          2. Too many practices that don't seem to have a strong shariah basis. Namely the many mourning rituals related to martyrdom of the Ahlul Bayt. While it is normal that we humans mourn the loss of any loved one, if we understand the situation Islamically then we know that in the case of martyrs they are not dead but that they are receiving their provisions from Allah (swt). We should therefore be happy for them. Looking at the situation of martyrs now whether it be the atrocities happening in Gaza or the recent Chapel Hill Shooting sure there are many emotions we all go through. Of course we cry tears for them. Many of us want to beat our chests or pound fists against something but once we get a hold of ourselves we realize that this is all a test from Allah (swt) and that if He accepts their martyrdom then they have not lost but won. Why the Shia want to make annual rituals over crying for martyrs and beating chests is beyond me. I approached it with open-mindedness to see if there was some logic behind it. I just don't get it. This was all a part of Allah's plan for them and we should be happy that they are among the best in Jannah.
          We do not cry upon getting killed in the way of Allah (swt) but we cry for the way the where killed and the position and status they have near Allah. Since each and every infallible imams were killed and were not let to live and lead their lives peacefully and were always under rulers control and were made to migrate and distance themselves from their family because being from the lineage of Prophet (saws) and having his kwowledge, ethics and every other attribute except being prophet and they were his successor and thus cannot be superior to him (saws). None of the shias believe that their imams are superior to Holy Prophet (saws) but yes they are superior to any other prophets (as) and for this we have our reasons and proofs from Quran and Ahadith e Holy Prophet (saws).

          3. As an extension to point #2 I noticed a severe lack of focus on contemporary issues. They spoke out a lot against ISIS but nothing whatsoever against American imperialism. I find it strange to have yearly calendars around crying for martyrs of the Ahlul Bayt while not putting anything into practice over what is going on today. You'd think they would mourn over today's martyrs. Of course the same is true with most of the Sunni leaders I've seen as well. They simply don't touch contemporary issues. But with the extensive focus on martyrdom of Ahlul Bayt you would think they would apply those lessons to today. Why tell the sacrifice of Imam Hussein and not talk about the sacrifices we can make for Islam today? It doesn't make sense.
          It is because of sacrifice of Imam Hussain (as) that islam is alive and can is being followed in this world otherwise Yazid along with his friends had tried each and every way to remove islam from this world. As when the captives of Karbala were brought in the courtyard of Yazid, he was reciting these lines Yazid recited the blasphemous poetic verses of Abdullah bin Zab'ari Sahmi which he had composed while he was an unbeliever and also added some poetic verses of his own and said openly that he wanted to take revenge upon the descendants of Muhammad because Muhammad and his companions had killed his polytheist ancestors.
          So here if not Imam Hussain (as) islam would not have survived and we all would have been following a islam, sold and made by yazid and his friends. ISIS is just an islamic name given to a Zionist led force created in order to kill muslims for betterment of Israel and America. They have attacked Iraq just to steal Oil and other natural resources which they will not get so easily. All this is coming at the expense of lives of Muslims and none of the Jews and Christians who support Israel are being harmed. Just like many terrorist organization who attack masjid, schools and claim to be islamic movement while they leave Bars and Clubs and other places where sins are committed. No Islamic movement will teach anyone to kill innocent women and children and old people and also young for their pleasure and comfort.

          On the other hand, I do think the condemnations that some Sunnis make towards the Shia are greatly exaggerated. Walking into Shia masjids I don't see a huge difference in basic Islamic practices and beliefs. The prayers are quite similar with some minor differences, there are different hadeeth collections cited, different classical scholars quoted, etc. but the core of the religion is as far as I can tell the same. I won't do takfeer on them as some do. I think that is very dangerous to do. I also did not see evidence of the shirk that so many people claim Shia engage in. Bidah perhaps but not shirk. I would like to see mainstream Sunni scholars include more content on the Ahlul Bayt as I think this is an area too neglected in Sunni teachings especially considering the fact that the Ahlul Bayt are considered Sahabah and Salaf as well (for the ones who lived during those generations).
          Ahlul bait (as) can never be counted in same level with other sahabas as these ahlul bait (as) are divinely chosen by Allah (swt) to Succeed Holy Prophet (saws)'s mission and message till the day of Qiyamat.

          The Prophet Muhammad said: "Islam shall neither pass away nor be deviated while there are my 12 Caliphs/Khalifahs (successors) from my nation in it, all of them will be from Quraysh. When the last of them passes away, the Hour will be established and the earth will be destroyed (swallowed) with all its inhabitants."

          The conclusion I've drawn is that the Shia approach seems too risky and that it is safer to stick to the mainstream understanding and approach. Therefore, I have reversed this and gone back to ahlus sunnah wal jammah. I am open minded and willing to read stuff about Shia teachings but this is secondary while learning ahlus sunnah wal jammah is primary. Any constructive thoughts are welcome here. Please keep proper adab. I don't like seeing these threads turn into hostile Sunni vs. Shia debates.


          Shias teachings are not risky if you accept their reasons and proofs and talk without being biased and getting angry if your points are proved wrong or your beliefs wrong. Before coming to any conclusion think about it and then decide. I hope i do not get banned for posting.
          Last edited by jibtwataghut; 19-03-15, 02:12 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

            Look as a Christian I would say this. If you are an adult Sunni and of sober mind, then you are not allowed to move to Shiah with your own free will. If you are born into it or are Shiah through no fault of your own that is one thing. But if you WILLINGLY leave Sunni Islam for Shiah then I would say that is very serious and not allowed. It would be preferred if you come back to Sunni.

            When you willingly support Shiah, you are supporting divisions and sects. You are taking part in bloodshed. You can technically get a share of all those sins if you WILLINGLY use your Free Will as an adult to support this division. Thats why it is so serious. It's very serious to support this kind of division as an adult. Shiah is still tied far too much to Paganism and i would personally stay away.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

              Originally posted by Crush View Post
              Look as a Christian I would say this. If you are an adult Sunni and of sober mind, then you are not allowed to move to Shiah with your own free will. If you are born into it or are Shiah through no fault of your own that is one thing. But if you WILLINGLY leave Sunni Islam for Shiah then I would say that is very serious and not allowed. It would be preferred if you come back to Sunni.

              When you willingly support Shiah, you are supporting divisions and sects. You are taking part in bloodshed. You can technically get a share of all those sins if you WILLINGLY use your Free Will as an adult to support this division. Thats why it is so serious. It's very serious to support this kind of division as an adult. Shiah is still tied far too much to Paganism and i would personally stay away.
              How want basis you called US PAGAN???? or it was out of guess and heard words without any research???

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                Originally posted by Crush View Post
                Look as a Christian I would say this. If you are an adult Sunni and of sober mind, then you are not allowed to move to Shiah with your own free will. If you are born into it or are Shiah through no fault of your own that is one thing. But if you WILLINGLY leave Sunni Islam for Shiah then I would say that is very serious and not allowed. It would be preferred if you come back to Sunni.

                When you willingly support Shiah, you are supporting divisions and sects. You are taking part in bloodshed. You can technically get a share of all those sins if you WILLINGLY use your Free Will as an adult to support this division. Thats why it is so serious. It's very serious to support this kind of division as an adult. Shiah is still tied far too much to Paganism and i would personally stay away.
                The ignorance is your post is amazing. A Christian who worships three calls a group of Muslims, who worship the One True God, a pagan?

                Why do you speak on a topic you have no knowledge on?
                I am surprised at the man who searches for his lost item, while he has lost his own soul and does not search for it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                  Oh I did not read he is a Christian.
                  Now can u answer my question. How can 1=3 and 3=1?? This is what you believe right and follow, right??

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                    There is another pattern I've noticed. While Sunni leaders don't address the issue of oppression in our ummah near enough, the Shia leaders seem to talk about persecution non-stop to a level similar to what one might hear from the Jews. Yet like the Jews, I don't see much evidence of persecution to anywhere near the degree they go on about it. Most of the hate crimes in the West, arsons and vandalism of masjids, and people put in prison are against Sunnis not Shias. It's like how Jews go on and on and on about how persecuted they supposedly are when the truth is that any American knows that a simple comparison to what American blacks are going through with police violence or what the Muslim community is dealing with far exceeds anything Jews as a community are going through. And I see the same nonsense promoted from the Shias. Worse, most of what I've heard is directed at persecution from the Sunnis rather than persecution from the kuffar. And again as far as the West goes, I'm not seeing evidence of it. I'm not seeing hate crimes happening to them at all (not that it doesn't sometimes happen) but instead it is Sunnis constantly getting thrown in prison, beaten up, discriminated against, killed, etc. even right here in America. I hate to generalize like this but this is what I've seen. And when it comes to community response, it is largely the Sunnis who are fighting the oppression (albeit the lay people, not the scholars so much). CAIR puts out article after article of oppression and yet either the Shias are silent and it is the Sunnis speaking up or I'm actually seeing Shias making excuses for the oppression (i.e. arguing that Muslims shouldn't be challenging the kuffar systems too much, typical apologist stuff, etc.) and another matter is that I'm finding also that like the Jews it seems far more common for Shias to hide their identity and mask who they really are. Same thing I find with many Jews. Almost all of the well known islamophobia-industry leaders in America have Jewish names. And I'm seeing similar deceptiveness among the Shias. Like when hate crimes happen against Sunnis, Sunnis condemn the American media and poor police investigations whereas the Shias say that it is a reaction to ISIS, arguing that Sunnis need to do more to condemn ISIS, as if ISIS somehow was responsible for the hate crimes. These are just observations. Don't take this to mean I am saying everyone is guilty. But I'm not imagining this stuff. I'm seeing sneakiness coming from too many places. Subhanallah.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                      It doesn't seem like the title of this thread should be in the comparative religion section

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                        There do need to be more lectures and stuff on the correct sunni perspective of the Ahlul baht, its kinda hard to find reliable information on some of them.
                        Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                        How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                        Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                          Just for the record the shia jibwataghut was banned for slandering the sahahba with filthy lies
                          Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                          How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                          Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                            Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                            Just for the record the shia jibwataghut was banned for slandering the sahahba with filthy lies
                            What lies were told?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Explorations with Shia Practice

                              Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                              What lies were told?
                              They were slanderous accusations., claiming some companions said this or did that which are blatantly false. At leadt according to our sources, ,maybe not in theirs...but we don't pay any heed to the nonsense in their own scriptures..
                              Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                              How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                              Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

                              Comment

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