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    Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

    Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
    I told you earlier that you are Just a One of the 41000 denominations with MANY different idealogies., So you just imagine as that which make feel better, a pot or a womb, or a fridge or whatever. keep imagining by Pawning your God Given brain to the Satan because you are slave to your ego and you want to win a debate. But am not here from a debate but its my duty to Inform my brethren , The Children of Adam not to do the SAME MISTAKE AGAIN of our Forefather disobeying, mistrusting Allah and falling into the Trap of Satan..
    So there are different sect of Islam too. I am not interested in winning a debate; I am interest in you coming to the knowledge of truth. I have even offered to say an agreed prayer with you but you stopped searching for truth along with others

    Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
    5:82-86 ''You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant..
    This is speaking of the Catholics and not the true people of the Book or Biblical Christianity. We don't make any idolatrous association to Allah, and we certainly don't ascribe to Him partners. We are the people of the Book that Allah SPOKE WELL OF SAYING WE SHOULD STAND ON THE GOSPEL WE HAVE RECEIVED. Muslim were commanded to not argue with us unless in the best of ways, and that you should ask us people of the Book if you have doubts about Muhammad's prophet hood, but you go against what Allah says.
    Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
    And when they hear what has been revealed to the Messenger, you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of what they have recognized of the truth. They say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so register us among the witnesses.

    And why should we not believe in Allah and what has come to us of the truth? And we aspire that our Lord will admit us [to Paradise] with the righteous people.

    So Allah rewarded them for what they said with gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. And that is the reward of doers of good

    But those who disbelieved and denied Our signs - they are the companions of Hellfire.''].
    I have tears of grief over you all.


    Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
    So its upto you to listen to your Ego & Satan or to listen to SOMEONE (the Comforter, Spirit of Truth) who Jesus referred to every Disciples of him at his last Supper to REMEMBER and said he will comeback to them (YOU) means not disciples they are already Dead but its 'YOU PEOPLE Heislam & Arbed etc etc as in John 14:18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. ' who are living today boasting about him and his message but totally MISLEAD BY OUR ENEMY , SATAN.
    We are looking forward to the return of Christ and love His appearing. We are not ignorant of Satan's device. IT IS WRITTEN: He is the father of all lies. IOW, there is not a better deceiver than him!!!

    peace
    Last edited by HeisIam; 08-11-14, 02:54 PM.

    Comment


      Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

      Originally posted by kepha View Post
      how you know that author luke's gospel is luke?
      That is a good question; I don't know; in fact, I don't know if Matthew wrote Matthew or Mark wrote Mark, but I know Paul wrote Paul and He was commissioned by Jesus appearing to him.
      Last edited by HeisIam; 08-11-14, 03:23 PM.

      Comment


        Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

        Originally posted by kepha View Post
        II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
        971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

        http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
        WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Are you considering Catholicism? Read post #554

        Comment


          Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

          Originally posted by candyapple View Post
          You just proved my point.

          btw again observe your hypocrisy here cause NOW you have four fingers pointing back at you :)

          When will you stop embarrassing yourself?

          And saying la ilaha illAllah along with muhammadur rasulullah has no elements of exalting the prophet to a godly status

          Because while we are saying there's no God but Allah, we're also reminding ourselves that Muhammad is no more than a messenger

          So as not to fall into error like you christians who forgot jesus was a messenger and in irony of all ironies you guys actually made jesus a god

          and so our shahadah has a beautiful purpose.

          So don't milk it christian.
          You keep calling me a hypocrite, but you don't show a reason why your so bent on attacking me who is not your enemy. What point did I prove? You are not clear or coherent at all. Explain yourself without the unnecessary slander of my person sister. Who said Jesus is a messenger in the Scriptures that came before? I never accused you of elevating Muhammad to godly status, but I did say you associate a non deity slave messenger with Allah to be Muslim, and you know exactly what I am speaking of.

          Saying Jesus is a messenger is a corruption of truth. He is NEVER a messenger nor did He claim to be; He is the MESSAGE. Jesus said, I am the way, truth and life. No one comes to the father (God/Allah) except through Me. If you want paradise, you need to meet God on His terms not yours or by some corrupted message that contradicts the gospel Allah sent us telling us People of the Book to stand on it for wee can do no other! We stand on the Rock and we want to pull you up on the Rock out of the mire. We are not the enemy; we are the people of the Book!

          We didn't make Jesus God. God calls Jesus His beloved Son. Jesus calls God His father. God calls Jesus God Heb.1

          You talk out of deception and false accusation; We are the people of the Book
          Last edited by HeisIam; 08-11-14, 03:17 PM.

          Comment


            Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

            Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
            That is a good question; I don't know; in fact, I don't know if Matthew wrote Matthew or Mark wrote Mark, but I know Paul wrote Paul and He was commissioned by Jesus appearing to him.
            Oh please jesus never him. The vision that paul allegedly encountered has three different contradicting versions.

            and paul teaches anti christianity. Cause he is a liar and an anti Christ.
            "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

            "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

            Comment


              Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

              Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
              So there are different sect of Islam too. I am not interested in winning a debate; I am interest in you coming to the knowledge of truth. I have even offered to say an agreed prayer with you but you stopped searching for truth along with others
              I have told about the Shia who are the cause of concern for the Majority 85 % Sunni Muslims (who have same basic fundamentals of Belief) but you replied that issue of Caliphate is just a Minor Problem, refer your earlier replies. And also in shias almost half have the same fundamental as the Sunnis and other Half or less took the Concept started by Ibn Sabah (Hypocrite ) like the concept you have the God and Ali is same for which they are Shunned By the 85% (sunnis) + 8% (shias) as Kafirs Or Rejectors of Monotheism.

              Accepting One creator Allah as in sura 112 will be the catalyst for me to do any work as you say since you had already changed your words more than a few times , So Low confidence to spent my valuable TIME.

              Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
              I have tears of grief over you all.
              Truly speaking i do not have tears for you But I thank My Creator to have guided me to to true religion when I searched from him when I was lad and feel I am blessed and feel if others (non Muslims) did the same way i did, they may be blessed & guided too Allah willingly, and I pray for my Brethren , the Children of Adam that too because My heart aches if they were sincere people and getting misguided. If you want to find my past try to search thread '' want to speak to atheist or ex atheist " by Ismail123 who is an Agnostic in a muslim name and find out how I strived to find my Creator though born as a muslim in a staunch Muslim family.If you want to know someone who strived more than me to find the Truth see this video

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXcJ4b84-Lk ( atleast 6-10 minutes )

              Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
              We are looking forward to the return of Christ and love His appearing. We are not ignorant of Satan's device. IT IS WRITTEN: He is the father of all lies. IOW, there is not a better deceiver than him!!!
              peace
              So I am cautioning you, he is in YOU. So Pray & seek help to Your Creator The Lord as Prophet Abraham prayed when he was kid riding on the Idols his father made for selling them seeing the stars & sun and making guesses of who his Lord could be,
              My sect - No Sect

              My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

              Just a Muslim

              Comment


                Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                You keep calling me a hypocrite, but you don't show a reason why your so bent on attacking me who is not your enemy. What point did I prove? You are not clear or coherent at all. Explain yourself without the unnecessary slander of my person sister. Who said Jesus is a messenger in the Scriptures that came before? I never accused you of elevating Muhammad to godly status, but I did say you associate a non deity slave messenger with Allah to be Muslim, and you know exactly what I am speaking of.

                Saying Jesus is a messenger is a corruption of truth. He is NEVER a messenger nor did He claim to be; He is the MESSAGE. Jesus said, I am the way, truth and life. No one comes to the father (God/Allah) except through Me. If you want paradise, you need to meet God on His terms not yours or by some corrupted message that contradicts the gospel Allah sent us telling us People of the Book to stand on it for wee can do no other! We stand on the Rock and we want to pull you up on the Rock out of the mire. We are not the enemy; we are the people of the Book!

                We didn't make Jesus God. God calls Jesus His beloved Son. Jesus calls God His father. God calls Jesus God Heb.1

                You talk out of deception and false accusation; We are the people of the Book

                You proved you were were trying to imply we make Muhammad as God and then you kind of admitted it which was my point. And now you're just playing with words trying to worm your way out of it

                And yet again you go on twisting the truth.

                But I'll humour you shall I, if jesus is the message then he died ← the message died shall I say, so you have nothing.


                again your blasphemy is getting you nowhere. God DOES NOT beget.

                I think that's your issue. You can't swallow the fact that the man you worship is a messenger of the creator almighty.

                Yoh've been refuted time and time again by our brothers here yet you continue in your blindness.

                You KNOW WE WILL NEVER FOLLOW YOUR FALSEHOOD.

                so now that we established this, please do yourself a favour and zip it :)
                "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                Comment


                  Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                  Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                  Show where it states that in the Bible. That is Catholicism; it is not part of true Biblical Christianity; moreover, it doesn't make Mary part of the three that Allah spoke of; if she was, then Allah is the one who missed something not I. He missed the Holy Spirit who is God who is the third of the three, but Allah thought that Christians believed it was Allah, because Allah said, "They do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three. Additionally, the way Allah questions Jesus "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me?" Allah implied but did state clearly OR EXPLICITLY that the three (trinity) he tells Christians not to say consisted of the 1. son (Jesus), 2. the mother (Mary) AND 3. THE FATHER (Allah).

                  So, care to explain why your Islamic god had this misconception? No Christians in history be they pagan Catholics or rebellious protestants took Mary for the second person of the three or the father (Allah) for the third. Who was Allah talking to? If he was talking to the Catholics, he should have said say not four since Catholics according to you and Allah considered Mary as God; hence you are stuck with this blaring discrepancy for a book you consider perfect. You really need to read carefully here before you respond., because you are just not getting any of these points at all. This alone is enough to tell me to stay clear of Islam, but the problems and discrepancies don't stop here, this is one that no Muslim has been able to gainsay and it is enough for me. Jesus was born as a result of God's direct intervention not like Adam who was created to start the human race; therefore, Jesus is emphatically and unequivocally the Son of the Living God! the second person of the three not the first as Allah implied.
                  oh really hahha. You think you can out wit the creator almighty???

                  Did you forget there was a tribe of christians at the time of the revelations who Allah is addressing in that verse you love to quote??

                  Allah is perfect. But you're speaking nonsense.

                  Also like I said before you need to sort out your your own mess first before you start on us.

                  Catholics call you infidels. You call them Infidels.

                  Really you infidels are a JOKE. Don't even know if you guys are coming or going!!
                  "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                  "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                  Comment


                    Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                    Originally posted by candyapple View Post
                    You proved you were were trying to imply we make Muhammad as God and then you kind of admitted it which was my point. And now you're just playing with words trying to worm your way out of it:)
                    I'll tell you straight no need to add or twist what I said. If you feel I imply or proved you were making Muhammad deity, provide me with the quote. I said, I believe you idolize and associate him, but I never said you consider him deity. I had given the reason why I felt that way many times. I'll keep mentioning it, Muslims believe Muhammad is the best of human creation when in truth not one human creation is better than another. Moreover, you must mention him with Allah in the second part of the sahahda; in fact, the Muslim Quranist consider the Sunni and Shia guilty of shirk because of it. So you have issues within Muslims sects to iron out yourself. Don't throw rocks when you dwell in a glass house.

                    Jesus is the message that died, but rose from the dead. You left that important part out.

                    Jesus is not a messenger; He is the message meaning He is the word of God in both the Bible and Quran; If he is God's word and He is, He is eternal and not created. He was the preexisting word of God made human. God's word is not a creation; His word is the Creator.

                    I have been refuted? BY whom? Yes, I was refuted in a pig's eye. I am not telling you that you have to follow Christianity, I am just telling you the truth; what you do with it is your business.



                    Originally posted by candyapple View Post
                    And yet again you go on twisting the truth.
                    But I'll humour you shall I, if jesus is the message then he died ← the message died shall I say, so you have nothing.

                    again your blasphemy is getting you nowhere. God DOES NOT beget.

                    I think that's your issue. You can't swallow the fact that the man you worship is a messenger of the creator almighty.

                    Yoh've been refuted time and time again by our brothers here yet you continue in your blindness.

                    You KNOW WE WILL NEVER FOLLOW YOUR FALSEHOOD.

                    so now that we established this, please do yourself a favour and zip it :)
                    Don't tell me to zip it. Now, I now why Muhammad considered Muslim women to have half the wit of a man. The truth of his words reflects in your comments. :D
                    Last edited by HeisIam; 08-11-14, 04:49 PM.

                    Comment


                      Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                      Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                      [COLOR="#000000"]
                      So I am cautioning you, he is in YOU. So Pray & seek help to Your Creator The Lord as Prophet Abraham prayed when he was kid riding on the Idols his father made for selling them seeing the stars & sun and making guesses of who his Lord could be,
                      So, you are calling me Satan? LOL, so you would caution Satan to seek help from his Creator. Do you really believe Satan is redeemable? Do you really believe I am Satan?:evilb: :rofl1:
                      Last edited by HeisIam; 08-11-14, 05:06 PM.

                      Comment


                        Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                        Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                        I'll tell you straight no need to add or twist what I said. If you feel I imply or proved you were making Muhammad deity, provide me with the quote. I said, I believe you idolize and associate him, but I never said you consider him deity. I had given the reason why I felt that way many times. I'll keep mentioning it, Muslims believe Muhammad is the best of human creation when in truth not one human creation is better than another. Moreover, you must mention him with Allah in the second part of the sahahda; in fact, the Muslim Quranist consider the Sunni and Shia guilty of shirk because of it. So you have issues within Muslims sects to iron out yourself. Don't throw rocks when you dwell in a glass house.

                        Jesus is the message that died, but rose from the dead. You left that important part out.

                        Jesus is not a messenger; He is the message meaning He is the word of God in both the Bible and Quran; If he is God's word and He is, He is eternal and not created. He was the preexisting word of God made human. God's word is not a creation; His word is the Creator.

                        I have been refuted? BY whom? Yes, I was refuted in a pig's eye. I am not telling you that you have to follow Christianity I am just telling you the truth what you do with it is your business.



                        Don't tell me to zip it. Now, I now why Muhammad considered Muslim women to have half the wit of a man. The truth of his words reflects in your comments. :D

                        Your last sentence lol. Funny. I told you you're a dodgy character with a false facade :)

                        No worries I wont hold it against you but I do like the fact that you realise our prophet spoke the truth.

                        you tell me the difference between idolizing and worshipping, cause in islam, its all the same difference.

                        and I made it explicit there is NO "IDOLIZING" or exalting our prophet beyond his status, which is the last and final messenger.


                        Btw, if jesus died and rose up, where is he now? looks like he abandoned you. Oops. Btw when he does appear again he's gunna tell you to do one you workers of lawlessness :p

                        but the point is the message is no longer with you guys so you still have ZILCH :)


                        btw I believe you had excellent refutation about God's command, "be" and it is. But in any case we are all a command of god, so that doesn't make jesus anymore special than us :up: -except he was born from a virgin mother. And he is a chosen prophet, a messiah. A christ.
                        By your logic if God's command makes jesus god, then that would make every single creation of god a god. And that is an utter ridiculous and wrong conclusion.


                        Aha. Gotchya you are soooo sly but but you're exposing your agenda more and more by the minute.

                        Am I the Christian on a muslim forum trying to impose my brliefs???

                        Hahha no. So your point is null and void.

                        its you who's desperate and trying to impose your blasphemous beliefs on us, and if I were on a christian forum then you'd have every right to "point the finger" back at me.

                        again, we have refuted you. You don't like it, do one.

                        no one's gunna believe your blasphemous beliefs :)

                        Not by a million miles.

                        you're wasting your time here and its getting pretty annoying going around in circles with you.
                        "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                        "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                        Comment


                          Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                          Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                          So, you are calling me Satan? LOL, so you would caution Satan to seek help from his Creator. Do you really believe Satan is redeemable? Do you really believe I am Satan?:evilb: :rofl1:
                          Yes every Human has it but your's Uncontrollable & trumpetting with :hidban: (lie,lie lie) Lies again and again as in you last post , You does nt seem to get better Man
                          My sect - No Sect

                          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                          Just a Muslim

                          Comment


                            Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                            Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                            This is speaking of the Catholics and not the true people of the Book or Biblical Christianity. We don't make any idolatrous association to Allah, and we certainly don't ascribe to Him partners. We are the people of the Book that Allah SPOKE WELL OF SAYING WE SHOULD STAND ON THE GOSPEL WE HAVE RECEIVED. Muslim were commanded to not argue with us unless in the best of ways,
                            To Your Lies again, You never get tired of Speaking LIES so that will only lead to the path of misguidance & destruction Thats why Allah has given permission to have a hard discourse if they were people who are unjust and unfair like you, who keep repeating lies, see my earlier refutations.So if you do that you will have a satan as a friend and you know what's the Satan's destiny. A man is known by the company he keeps.

                            Noble Quran 3:19 ''Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.''

                            Noble Quran 23:52-55 ''And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other).But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: each party rejoices in that which is with itself.But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time.Do they think that because We have granted them abundance of wealth an d sons.We would hasten them on in every good? Nay, they do not understand.''

                            Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                            and that you should ask us people of the Book if you have doubts about Muhammad's prophet hood, but you go against what Allah says.
                            peace
                            See what the companion of Prophet Ibn Abbas (raa) explains in 633 -660 AD(approx) about the verse you quote which is 10:94

                            (And if thou) O Muhammad (art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee) concerning that with which We sent Gabriel, i.e. the Qur'an, (then question those who read the Scripture) i.e. the Torah ((that was) before you) 'Abdullah Ibn Salam and his followers. The Prophet (pbuh) did not ask nor was he ever in doubt about the Qur'an. Rather, Allah was addressing with these words the people of the Prophet. (Verily the Truth from thy Lord) i.e. Gabriel with the Qur'an from your Lord, containing the events of past nations (hath come unto thee) O Muhammad. (So be not thou of the waverers) be not of the doubters.


                            My elaborated tafsir says that Abdullah Ibn Salam was the Jewish Chief who accepted Islam against the wish of his tribes and Prophet (pbuh) replied to this verse that I do not doubt anything and I do not want to ask anything with Abdullah Ibn Saalam who was a Muslim Already.
                            My sect - No Sect

                            My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                            Just a Muslim

                            Comment


                              Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                              Originally posted by HeisIam View Post
                              So, you are calling me Satan? LOL, so you would caution Satan to seek help from his Creator. Do you really believe Satan is redeemable? Do you really believe I am Satan?:evilb: :rofl1:
                              You're definitely a product of satan's work, in the sense that your blasphemous lies and ego has blinded you from seeing the truth.

                              you know that frustration you feel? When your chest tightens with anger when you debate with us?
                              That's satan's doing and he has a hold over you only cause you allow it.
                              "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                              "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                              Comment


                                Re: Why jesus is not the son of god ?

                                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                                "

                                hi everybody, i would not accept anybody especially on my thread spewing lies, stupid arguments, cheating, deception etc etc even against the well known facts of the world history, a common sense and also against the truth may be its against the noble quran or even the ot & nt because i am not here writing to pass time nor i am a kid unmindful of the posts of ignorants or cheaters or misquoters such as this person "heislam''

                                he blemishes islam with various allegations, twisting of quran verses a blasphemy a really crooked deep conspirator which i already proved in my post # 339 (last part) 345,347,349, 351,357, 358,360,365, 368 and still a lot of work remains for me to clear his other false allegations, cockeyed assumptions so here we go.....


                                So see now how he changes, turns the table - his colours in his quote below




                                yes it did change context and you did that (not me, like you allege above) by hiding the very next part ( in blue,below) also in the same verse of 5:48 ( , crook :( )

                                noble quran 5:48 ''
                                to thee we sent the scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:so judge between them by what allah hath revealed, and
                                follow not their vain desires, diverging from the truth that hath come to thee.............'' .

                                means follow the guidelines of quran regarding rules & law ( tafsir ibn abbas) which has come to the muslims and not the vain desire of people of the book (heislam ) who are trying to distort their rules,stories of noble prophets which were prescribed to them. [/size] (the biggest crook, i ever saw) as if to make it appear, muslims have to follow the bible because its already safely guarded - undistorted ?
                                you cannot make your point by destroying the quran's point which you do by giving incomplete verse which is the trait of your people for millenniums which quran also warns us in verse 5:13

                                ''but because of their breach of their covenant, we cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): For allah loveth those who are kind.''

                                [color="#ff0000"][color="#000000"]you are playing with our noble quran , a game like you played in cherry picking the meaning of '' glorify '' as ' worship ' from selecting one wrong meaning from a 30 meanings while all others point to digify,revere, praise etc as in post # 368

                                suppose or if your books were guarded in safety without corruption ( as you trumpet :banbear: )

                                1) jesus would not have come with the new book injeel or nt since torah is still available - undistorted

                                2) prophet muhammad (pbuh) would not have arrived

                                3) the noble quran would have exact stories that now which are now in your books all vulgar erotic,incest stories.

                                4) the noble quran will not have these verses saying that they changed verses of their books as in verses (2:75,79,, 3: 78, 5:13, 6:91, 7:62 etc )

                                5) islam would have believed in crucsifixtion and trinity

                                6) and christianity itself would not have split into so many many sects based on the fundamentals , basic concepts of jesus itself.



                                Christians are the people who are the most varied in their belief more than any one else right from the days of prophet (pbuh) untill now you may argue muslims are also divided so why complain against the christians only ? That's a wrong idea muslims are divided in petty issues but their fundamentals are the same ' none is worthy to be worshipped except 'allah' and muhammad is his messenger' unlike christians a 5 fundamental groups were already existing during prophets time itself seen through our records as on 610-620 ad only in bahrain they are
                                1)yaqubi group who claimed esa is a god
                                2)murhisia who claimed esa 2 out of three , mary is the third
                                3)malkania jesus as god 2 in 1
                                4) nisthoria worshipped as begotten son of god. And with god, the father, god the mother

                                5) but also a type of chrisitianity which was very close to islam was also there like the one followed by negus or the king of abyssinia so reverted to islam on his 1st hearing of the quran in 616 ad.

                                Kindly understand that you inherit a religion with books which a wise historian or a social anthropologist could never accept because it was only written by someone who never met jesus and 60 years after jesus and paul bringing some notes earlier than that but paul was killed for his crimes( do you know that)also christianity got influenced by greeks & roman kings who had sons of god which were born in carnal relationship of jupiter or begotten son and the kings like ceaser were called god and his son becomes a son of god.

                                Jesus was born among the aramaic speaking peasants so original nt was in aramaic translated to greek and then to hebrew and to english so compare it with our books not the noble quran, not the sahih hadith, not the hasan hadith but the daif or gharib or weak hadith.which we give very less importance because not because it was not listened directly from prophets lips but only because the 'isnad' or the chain of narrators or even one of the narrators has lost his crediblilty due to some small mistake ( just one lying incident will discredit him) so the collector of hadith bukhari rejected 596000 + from a collection of 600,000 hadith and approved about 3000 as sahih or the truth. So using this criteria sorry to say your holy book do not reach even the grade of weak hadith because it was not heard directly from jesus but still we muslim respect those verses(only a very few) which coincide with our holy book giving the benefit of the doubt they could have been those verses that quran speaks about.so when you advise us regarding the concept of god or the theology matters it appears like a country like nepal advising usa and explaining and teaching technology in the matter of sophisticated arms & technology. By doing that nepal will certainly become a laughing stock rather being called smart because its one of the most underdeveloped in technology. So the jews are smarter here see the video at 8 minutes how they give a smart reply.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm3szfpwv1g

                                at present about a staggering 41000 denominations of christians exist says this wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of..._denominations

                                )
                                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                                heislam

                                as per the troll definition above in your quote lets verify in how many points you fit in

                                1) starting arguments

                                this is a islamic forum you come here and speak against the quran and islamic theology, so who is starting arguments dear ?
                                Did i go to your christian website and spoke against your 1+1+1 = 1 ?

                                2) or upsetting people

                                you upset us by misquoting, hiding verses of noble quran (here # 323) & speaking garbage ' the bible cleared already before quran about the 7 letter filthy word about mary and many more


                                they cannot attack our book without attacking theirs. Surah 5:48 ~ to you we sent the scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
                                And hid the next verse which gives answer, foul play

                                3) by posting inflammatory,



                                borrowing from somebody who did not know even their books are real ? Written in a different language only 12 disciples but quran has 10,000's
                                of witnesses lol

                                4)extraneous
                                do not answer prove your claims as asked in post # 349 so is this a lie or truth , if you did not clear it means you tricked us.
                                http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/paul.htm

                                5) provoking readers into an emotional response



                                you prove all 5 points of a troll and even more with lies, fraudulent mind by cherry picking (the different meaning one ) out of 30 meanings when 90 % of it refer to 'dignify'



                                peace or peas ?




                                so you talk without knowledge again , noble quran's word is the highest word which talks as

                                18:4-5 ''and to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son,(a thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. they speak naught but a lie.

                                5:41 ''o messenger! Let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "we believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to other's s who have never so much as come to thee. they change the words from their (right) times and places: They say, "if ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" if any one's trial is intended by allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against allah. For such - it is not allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the hereafter a heavy punishment.

                                3:67-68''abraham was neither a jew nor a christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a muslim [submitting to allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists. Verily, among mankind who have the best claim to ibrahim (abraham) are those who followed him, and this prophet (muhammad saw) and those who have believed (muslims). And allah is the wali (protector and helper) of the believers.

                                3:66''verily, you are those who have disputed about that of which you have knowledge. Why do you then dispute concerning that which
                                you have no knowledge? It is allah who knows, and you know not.


                                The hadith

                                narrated by 'ikrima
                                ibn 'abbas said, "how can you ask the people of the scriptures about their books while you have allah's book (the qur'an) which is the most recent of the books revealed by allah, and you read it in its pure undistorted form?"




                                remember you did that but i did not reciprocate yet. To you for all your mistakes,lies,
                                :1peace: Because we practise islam, the religion of peace.

                                so kindly practise what you preach. not this peas tr Lling
                                bump from page 9,10,11.
                                My sect - No Sect

                                My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                                Just a Muslim

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