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Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

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  • #76
    Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

    Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
    You are being obtuse. That's what you would expect from the 'historical' version of events - ie they pre-dated and were the direct ancestors of Islam. Whereas, if prophets were scattered across the globe, you should see Islam-like religions elsewhere.

    There is nothing to suggest that Islam is actually the original, or ancestor religion.
    Nobody made that claim but you keep repeating it for reasons unknown.

    You think there is some mystery as to why Christianity is similar to Islam when they were a 'nation' preceding Islam and from the around the same geographical location.

    Whereas, if prophets were scattered across the globe, you should see Islam-like religions elsewhere.
    This is an assumption on your part. You're trying to rationalise this assumption but going entirely the wrong way about it.

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

      Originally posted by candyapple View Post
      I dont understand what you mean? Coincidence as in why is God only concentrating on Abraham and his descendants?
      That I dont know.
      but in the quran God mentions that He sent a prophet to every nation with message to worship only one God.
      it makes sense that God would send a person from their own nation who speaks their native language so the people may understand.

      The only exception to this is that quran is for the whole of humankind. Yes it was revealed in arabic... and whats so amazing is non arab learn the language and memorise the entire quran in its native language with ease
      anyways, if quran says that Allah has sent his message to every nationed, I believe this. So for me this isnt an issue.

      but for you, maybe evidence that other nations begun by worship of one god may help you. So in shaaAllah, Allah shows His signs to you, ameen
      There are 2 possible versions here. One is that Judaism evolved into Christianity which evolved into Islam. This fits all the known historical chronology and reference we have.

      The other version is that Islam is actually the original religion and the others are corrupt versions of it. This has no contemporary historical evidence. It is simply an assertion from the Quran. I understand that for you this means it must be so, but I am looking for any other evidence.

      If prophets were sent to every nation, there ought to be some trace, somewhere.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

        Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
        ...The other version is that Islam is actually the original religion and the others are corrupt versions of it. This has no contemporary historical evidence. It is simply an assertion from the Quran. I understand that for you this means it must be so, but I am looking for any other evidence...
        Quote the verse(s).

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
          Nobody made that claim but you keep repeating it for reasons unknown.

          You think there is some mystery as to why Christianity is similar to Islam when they were a 'nation' preceding Islam and from the around the same geographical location.

          This is an assumption on your part. You're trying to rationalise this assumption but going entirely the wrong way about it.
          For example Saif-Uddin says above: "Islam and Muslims were on Earth since the First man Adam(as). the rest of the Religions are concoctions of Man"

          i don't understand in what sense you are denying this, it's a fundamental claim of Islam

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

            Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
            For example, the development of agriculture 12-15000 years ago. Men had to domesticate the animals and the wild forms of grain etc, before they could be useful. Yet early man successfully domesticated almost every single creature or crop that was capable of being domesticated, a process which sometimes took hundreds of generations. Even today, we cannot domesticate any of the species they failed with. That's impressive.

            If you took a modern man back to that time, he would be useless because of lack of knowledge. but he could be trained. The same could happen in reverse. There is, was, no difference intellectual capacity, but there is a difference in learning and education.
            You know what you're talking about...that was their field. They were experts at doing those stuff. We have drifted away from that type of life so its not really any wonder that they were good at doing what they used to do.
            I mean like you say they wouldnt be any good with a smartphone or a car for example.
            yes it has to do with education, and these messages were in a way education if u like but starting from bottom and up the ladder. Today we have technology to help us understand things... they didnt back then so a book like quran would have been not a wise thing for them but the basic message of worship only one god and and enjoin good, forbid evil... they could understand. Also the issue of the first few humans being illiterate is another factor that they didnt have the ability to read or write like we do
            "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

            "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

              Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
              ...it's a fundamental claim of Islam
              Bring the verse(s).

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
                There are 2 possible versions here. One is that Judaism evolved into Christianity which evolved into Islam. This fits all the known historical chronology and reference we have.

                The other version is that Islam is actually the original religion and the others are corrupt versions of it. This has no contemporary historical evidence. It is simply an assertion from the Quran. I understand that for you this means it must be so, but I am looking for any other evidence.

                If prophets were sent to every nation, there ought to be some trace, somewhere.
                You have good points. But history hasnt all been discovered and so you cant verify for sure no other land worshipped God as a one and only creator. So this is issue you have is not set in stone yet. Its an open book if you like.

                as for islam being a result ofa third two religions, its not always the case that the latter copied the former.

                just because islam came after Christianity and Judaism.

                If u study the life of prophet Muhammed, u will come to know that he didnt copy n paste. Its impossible for a illiterate man who never stepped foot outside his land filled with pagan idol worshippers who had ZERO concept of prophecy would copy off of a bible and torah in the period of 23yrs and end up with a result like the quran.
                its impossible. Also he would have gotten caught if that were the case and people would cease to follow him. Plus if u look at his life, u wont have to dig deep to see after islam came, he suffered and gained nothing wealthwise.
                "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

                "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                  Originally posted by candyapple View Post
                  You have good points. But history hasnt all been discovered and so you cant verify for sure no other land worshipped God as a one and only creator. So this is issue you have is not set in stone yet. Its an open book if you like.

                  as for islam being a result ofa third two religions, its not always the case that the latter copied the former.

                  just because islam came after Christianity and Judaism.

                  If u study the life of prophet Muhammed, u will come to know that he didnt copy n paste. Its impossible for a illiterate man who never stepped foot outside his land filled with pagan idol worshippers who had ZERO concept of prophecy would copy off of a bible and torah in the period of 23yrs and end up with a result like the quran.
                  its impossible. Also he would have gotten caught if that were the case and people would cease to follow him. Plus if u look at his life, u wont have to dig deep to see after islam came, he suffered and gained nothing wealthwise.
                  It is of course always possible that we will discover as yet unknown cultural history that shows a fully fledged Islam in, say, the Amazonian jungle. But other major civilisations, such as the Chinese, are well known for thousands of years without trace of anything resembling Islam. Any religion could make a similar claim with equal credibility, or lack of it.

                  At the very least, it's surprising that there is no evidence for Islamic ideas in any other culture.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                    Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
                    ...The other version is that Islam is actually the original religion and the others are corrupt versions of it. This has no contemporary historical evidence. It is simply an assertion from the Quran. I understand that for you this means it must be so, but I am looking for any other evidence.

                    If prophets were sent to every nation, there ought to be some trace, somewhere.
                    Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                    Quote the verse(s).
                    Hello?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                      Originally posted by drifter786 View Post
                      Is that even practically possibile in 16 hours day or just exaggeration? Or perhaps days used to be longer like 50 cubit tall humans. Religions make extraordinary claims.
                      YES , 50 times prayer was what i heard from some but did not hear from a sahih hadith , yet. My speculation is, that Might be there was no ablution for them and their prayer was just a short remembrance and were done where ever they were, not like us like doing ablution and visiting masjids and waiting for congregation prayers but I was just giving an example that the laws of the previous Prophets and our Prophet Muhammad (saw) were not EXACTLY the same but the BASIC FAITH or Articles of Imaan were the same and Prayers, fasting and zakat was also prescribed for all earlier nations but differed in its intensity.

                      But the large Humans , i think they were During the times of Prophet Adam and its near progeny and its clear in sahih hadith when we will be resurrected on the day of Judgement everyone of us will be the size of Adam ( about 60 cubits) and our skins will be very thick and eyes as sharp as telescope and the EARTH will modified into a flat surface without mountains ans seas one could see along 1000's of miles along the globe and identify people.
                      My sect - No Sect

                      My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                      Just a Muslim

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                        Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
                        The examples you give are at least something. But they are not clear-cut as their accuracy is strongly disputed on a historical basis.

                        It would be very odd for just the occasional word to survive in another religion, without other parts of the theology. It is extremely unlikely that the only two religions which strongly resemble Islam just happen to be in the same area (and which claim to be ancestors). If all other religions are merely degenerate forms of Islam, which should see a scattering of examples round the world which are more or less similar. Instead we see only two examples, right nextdoor chronologically and geographically speaking.That is too much to be a coincidence.
                        Religions have been distorted very easily BEYOND recognition. lets not go to other far regions of Amazon or China but see in the ME itself where there are Prophets and their Holy books are in a FORM which does not display any connection with its SOURCE (Islam or even any of the Abrahamic faith) now.

                        Prophet Dawood (Pbuh) Or David was given the Zaboor which we are hard to locate now . Some claim its Psalms but still '' there is no hard evidence for Davidic authorship of any of them '' CLAIMS Wikipedia. Some claim they are Persians because they have Zend Avest which have Prophecies of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and that was from Zaboor which could be believed though these people worship Fire which is a very huge deviation from the Islamic Concept of Formless One God since these people MOST POSSIBLY misinterpreted the very near or similar verse of Quran (24:35)comparing or a Parable the light of Allah (NOOR of Allah - diificult to get a right translation from Arabic) that was in their Zaboor (holybook of David or Psalms) and started to worship Fire itself link :http://islamawareness.net/Zoroastria...criptures.html

                        Similarly there will be messengers of God In every language and in every part of this world but in a disguised form because its has been the VERY ROUTINE & PSYCHOLOGY of the Human Race to jump into assumptions and imaginations as in the case of Jesus(pbh) who would not have been known to us If the Quran had not Clearly mentioned about him because his personalty and the holy book revealed through him was altered beyond easy recognition. When People like Robin Hood were transformed into God within a short time of 300 years( Tamilnadu, India called Madurai Veeran) then why Prophet Like Dawood(Pbh) would not be lost into a completely different new religion in matter of a lengthy 3000 years ? and so ALL other Prophet that Quran Claims and hadith Claims (124,000)as well got lost or EXISTING in an disguised form and name or in the name of other religions or Gods FOR SURE.
                        My sect - No Sect

                        My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                        Just a Muslim

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                          Originally posted by olrac View Post
                          thank you for this information. This is interesting, but very anecdotic, if you compare it with the huge amount of beliefs, rules and narrations shared by Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
                          There's some ANECDOTIC info in post # 86 in reply to exnihilo of this thread another example how Religions get lost even in the Middle east.

                          Originally posted by olrac View Post
                          so, you think that God is still sending messengers all around the world ? what makes you think that ? any new messengers appearing recently ?
                          After Islam there is no major religion that were born except a small community of Sikhism(30 mil) but their founder was a Muslim whose students had again changed into a different faith to suits their needs and ethnicity and they still keep invoking the same attributes of Allah as Rahim, Malik etc and dressing like Muslims with a beard, turban etc. And Quran & hadith had already declared that will not be any Prophet after Muhammad (pbuh)

                          http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...arewell-Sermon
                          My sect - No Sect

                          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                          Just a Muslim

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                            Hello?
                            Islam claims to be the original religion and that other religions are either distorted versions of that original religion or substitutions. It also claims that prophets have been sent to every nation at various times to refresh the message. I'm asking why there is no evidence that this has happened. I'm not a Muslim, i can't quote verses, but you're the only one who seems to be disputing the issue so what is there to be said?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                              Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                              Religions have been distorted very easily BEYOND recognition. lets not go to other far regions of Amazon or China but see in the ME itself where there are Prophets and their Holy books are in a FORM which does not display any connection with its SOURCE (Islam or even any of the Abrahamic faith) now.
                              .
                              Why is it that of all the prophets sent to the world, only the ones sent to the ME have left any trace?

                              If other religions round the world have been corrupted, why is there there no sign of an earlier version that was closer to Islam?

                              All the historical evidence supports the idea that Islam developed exclusively in the ME, using and reworking pre-existing ideas from Christianity and Judaism. Nothing supports the notion of a worldwide prophecy.

                              Why is it that so many of the scriptural events are also in that small region?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                                After Islam there is no major religion that were born except a small community of Sikhism(30 mil)
                                I don't know what your definition of "major religion" is, but many new religions have appeared after Islam, comprising millions of followers. Just to quote some, Cao Dai, Baha'is, Tenrikyo, Eckankar, Scientology etc etc

                                Comment

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